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+--- Thread: Lack of main character development in Grimm? (/Thread-Lack-of-main-character-development-in-Grimm)
RE: Lack of main character development in Grimm? - izzy - 01-21-2016
(01-21-2016, 04:07 PM)irukandji Wrote: She did turn into a hexenbiest, but I still see that as a lack of development. We know she wanted to be human, but then one or two episodes later, she claims to be happy with the change. What the heck happened in those two episodes that made her happy with the change?
I though she explained it to Nick, that she felt the power, the awareness and now knowing the potential she did not want to go back. She was beyond human and was looking down on humans, or so it seemed to me. I thought it was one of the few things the writers actually took time to explain. And I think it tied back to when Nick was explaining to Juliette about the whole Grimm-Wesen thing and she wanted to know what type of creature she was, and he said in affect that she was nothing, she was just a human and said it in a condescending way.
Quote:One of the biggest confusions to me is this being arrested in the bar story arc. What was Juliette doing in a bar? As far as I know she's never been a bar hopper. Now all of the sudden because she's a hexenbiest she's also a barfly?
A couple of points. It seemed rather obvious to me she was out cruising for a man for a hook-up, only her emotions got in the way.
I found it congruent with my thought that she was out slumming when she met Nick, probably in a drunken horny state in a bar. So now she is single why not revert to type? At least this aspect made sense to me.
Quote:Oh yeah, I forgot: she refused Nick's proposal.
Once again I think it supported my slumming theory, but beyond that, it did demonstrate that she was intelligent.
Quote:As far as I know this woman is not known for any good deeds.
Define good. I have been of the opinion, for some time, that even those who are in voluntary servitude to others or do supposed acts of charity do so for innately selfish reasons: i.e they like how it makes them feel about themselves.
We live in a time of hedonism; Juliette is just part of the current manifestation of pop culture
Kindest regards...
RE: Lack of main character development in Grimm? - irukandji - 01-21-2016
(01-21-2016, 04:54 PM)izzy Wrote: I though she explained it to Nick, that she felt the power, the awareness and now knowing the potential she did not want to go back. She was beyond human and was looking down on humans, or so it seemed to me. I thought it was one of the few things the writers actually took time to explain. And I think it tied back to when Nick was explaining to Juliette about the whole Grimm-Wesen thing and she wanted to know what type of creature she was, and he said in affect that she was nothing, she was just a human and said it in a condescending way.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I only remember her saying something about liking the power and being the best hexenbiest she could be.
(01-21-2016, 04:54 PM)izzy Wrote: A couple of points. It seemed rather obvious to me she was out cruising for a man for a hook-up, only her emotions got in the way.
I found it congruent with my thought that she was out slumming when she met Nick, probably in a drunken horny state in a bar. So now she is single why not revert to type? At least this aspect made sense to me.
But it doesn't make sense to me for one reason. When Juliette lost her memory of Nick, she didn't revert to barhopping.
(01-21-2016, 04:54 PM)izzy Wrote: Define good. I have been of the opinion, for some time, that even those who are in voluntary servitude to others or do supposed acts of charity do so for innately selfish reasons: i.e they like how it makes them feel about themselves.
Why ask if you already have your own definition in mind? Nothing I say is going to change your opinion.
RE: Lack of main character development in Grimm? - Isa - 01-21-2016
Welp... Maybe Eve will answer some questions that are on our minds.
In the meantime they should really develop more the characters... Like why Nick decided to be a cop? Or whatever... The series is about wesen, I think the lack of development makes that quite clear.
All the characters are nice and the majority likes all of them, if they'd develop a little the series could only get better
RE: Lack of main character development in Grimm? - izzy - 01-21-2016
(01-21-2016, 06:02 PM)irukandji Wrote: Maybe I'm missing something here, but I only remember her saying something about liking the power and being the best hexenbiest she could be.
She said a bit more, but I was trying to tie things together to paint a picture for you rather the quoting her verbatim - episode etc.
Quote:But it doesn't make sense to me for one reason. When Juliette lost her memory of Nick, she didn't revert to barhopping.
I could be wrong about this, but I thought the Renard thing resurfaced for her then. I thought there was sexual tension between them at that point, so maybe she was subtly setting her cap for Renard. At least that is how I now recall it (subject to a brain housed in head that suffered many a blow).
Quote:Why ask if you already have your own definition in mind? Nothing I say is going to change your opinion.
Simple, I was Jellyfish baiting. I arrived at the afore mentioned just in the last few years, after analyzing my own motivations for behavior that people ascribed as me being a nice guy, helping the poor or whatever and analyzing the actions and motivations of others. But it seems a bit iconoclastic. Ergo I was soliciting the opinion of the brainy chick in the forum, in a round-about way.
Kindest regards...
RE: Lack of main character development in Grimm? - Saranghaeyo Oppa - 01-22-2016
(01-21-2016, 06:36 PM)Isa Wrote: Welp... Maybe Eve will answer some questions that are on our minds.
In the meantime they should really develop more the characters... Like why Nick decided to be a cop? Or whatever... The series is about wesen, I think the lack of development makes that quite clear.
All the characters are nice and the majority likes all of them, if they'd develop a little the series could only get better
I agree, but Nick needs to embrace being a grimm completely. I think because of Juliette he did not fully embrace being a grimm. For example when he lost his abilities he was thrilled because of Juliette but it affected his job quiet alot, it also affected his health and he missed being a grimm. Nick's concious has always held him back which is why he would get beat up alot. We have all seen how bad ass the woman are in the show. He can still be a good grimm but he should start by stop being a cop and having the freedom to survive first then trying to abide to law that Kehrseite-Schlich-Kennen live by. He is always encountering wesen that want to kill him but has to always think be fore acting which always harm him and the people he love. Nick has a son now, he must be more lethal to protect his family or they will get hurt.
RE: Lack of main character development in Grimm? - irukandji - 01-22-2016
(01-21-2016, 07:51 PM)izzy Wrote: She said a bit more, but I was trying to tie things together to paint a picture for you rather the quoting her verbatim - episode etc.
Then I am thinking of the wrong scene because she didn't say a whole lot to explain why she went from wanting to be human to being happy as a hexenbiest. Rosalee went to see her in jail, and while she told Rosalee more than anyone else, she still wasn't completely open with her. Rosalee proceeded to bait her by insisting Juliette was bitter and angry (yes I do know baiting when I see it), but Juliette didn't give her the time of day on that one. I'll have to think about your definition of good here. I originally thought is was a good thing Rosalee did by visiting Juliette. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe her visit was for selfish reasons.
(01-21-2016, 07:51 PM)izzy Wrote: I could be wrong about this, but I thought the Renard thing resurfaced for her then. I thought there was sexual tension between them at that point, so maybe she was subtly setting her cap for Renard. At least that is how I now recall it (subject to a brain housed in head that suffered many a blow).
I could be wrong here, but I thought she had no idea who Renard was and that she was remembering his kiss, not him. Women get kissed in bars all of the time. If she was a barhopper who slummed, wouldn't she be cruising the bars looking for him? If she was a barhopper, the only place he would have been was....in a bar.
RE: Lack of main character development in Grimm? - Robyn - 01-22-2016
I think the writers actually laid out Juliette’s transition from human/Nick’s girlfriend to Hexenbiest/Nick’s enemy, but as usual, they devoted only enough time to character evolution to establish that it happened.
The writers were unwilling to interfere with their Wesen of the Week stories, wanted only plot twists that would advance the Juliette/Hexenbiest arc without interference, and anxiously rushed to the Juliette is a badass Hexenbiest climax.
The writers supplied Juliette with only negative responses & reactions. Juliette did not encounter a single positive reinforcement during her transformation because that would have slowed/interfered with the writers’ agenda. They wanted a straight line without curves, turns, or crossroads.
Perhaps Henrietta’s intentions were well meaning, but she planted the idea in Juliette that Nick would become a mortal enemy & kill her if he found out she was a Hexenbiest. Then Henrietta informed Juliette her Hexenbiest was very powerful, like nothing she had ever seen, and permanent.
With Henrietta’s warning at the forefront, Juliette told Nick, and immediately perceived him as rejecting her, which caused Juliette to emotionally shut down/close herself off from their relationship, quickly embrace the new her, and setout to get even with Nick.
When Juliette asks Sean where Adalind is because she wants to kill her, rather than trying to calm Juliette & convince her to consider the ramifications of violent acts, Sean agrees that killing Adalind is a good idea & tells her where Adalind is.
Kenneth tells Juliette Adalind & Nick’s tryst resulted in pregnancy believing an angry & vengeful Juliette would help him get Kelly & Diana back to Portland, ultimately making the King very happy & very pleased with his accomplishment.
Just for fun, let’s consider:
Juliette told Nick sooner, before talking to Renard or Henrietta.
Nick’s initial reaction may be the same, but after some heartfelt conversations, they’re committed to their relationship & finding a cure. However, commitment and follow-through are two entirely different mindsets.
They learn through Henrietta that Juliette the Hexenbiest is like nothing she’s ever seen, will become more powerful, and there is no ‘cure’. Nick is devastated by the news while Juliette begins to embrace who/what she is, and see herself as Nick’s equal.
Juliette wants to help in Nick’s fight against evil, Wesen and human. Nick doesn’t respond well to this different Juliette. He doesn’t want a honed-skilled killer, he wants his sweet & loving girlfriend - who isn’t more powerful than him - by his side at home - not fighting along side him.
Nick’s friends, those Juliette thought were her friends too, are equally perplexed and find it difficult to relate to the new/different Juliette the Hexenbiest. Juliette feels more & more isolated as time goes on.
Attempts at intimacy don’t go well. Juliette is hyped up & sexually charged after a rousing fight or kill. Nick doesn’t understand Juliette’s reaction and can’t, or won’t, respond to her fight-enhanced sexual appetite.
Juliette begins to feel that Nick will never accept her as a hexenbiest and her changing personality & perspective. And heartfelt conversations become arguments and accusations. I could see all kinds of arguments/accusations arising - Nick lying about being a Grimm, which made her suspect he was cheating, cop and Grimm duties occupy the majority of his time & attention, Juliette coma, Juliette memory loss, Juliette Hexenbiest, etc, etc…
Unable to find common ground, Juliette moves out and seeks out others of her kind for guidance. Now living apart, the Nick/Juliette relationship quickly deteriorates, becoming violent & vengeful.
Even if the rest of the arc continued pretty much as scripted, we’d at least get to watch Juliette’s transition, Nick’s reaction to Juliette gradually embracing her Hexenbiest, and the slow-burn demise of their believed to be ‘forever love’.