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+--- Thread: Juliette and her Men (/Thread-Juliette-and-her-Men)
RE: Juliette and her Men - New Guy - 10-13-2015
(10-13-2015, 12:13 PM)irukandji Wrote:Hi Irukandji,(10-13-2015, 10:14 AM)TieDyeJackson Wrote: I see your point but you also have to take into consideration that it wasn't fair for her to expect that of Nick either.
Being a Grimm is a curse but it was also his birthright and over the course of the four seasons it became ingrained into his sense of self, it became a part of him.
Asking him to deny it was something that just couldn't be done because of it.
Juliette loved the idea of Nick but could not accept the Grimm within fully and that, coupled with a lot of bad reactions and emotions on both sides doomed the relationship.
Juliette didn't demand Nick give up his birthright. There was no birthright to give up. Nick lost it and no one was even close to finding a cure. All Juliette did was try to take their life together in a different direction. And from what we see, Nick gave Juliette the impression that he was ready to take his life a different direction with her.
This wasn't both of them. It was Nick all the way. He made a decision but refused to let Juliette in on it. That wasn't fair to her. It's one thing for Nick to want to be a Grimm again. It's another to deceive the love of his life into believing it's her idea and her idea alone.
I Absolutely want Nick to be a Grimm. It is essential for the TV series to continue.
I recall both Nick and Juliette at times wanting a normal life. The issue at hand is Adalind stealing Nick's Grimm powers and the restoration of his powers.
In 3.21 "Blond Ambition" Adalind cooks up the potion that puts a curse on Nick and rids him of his powers.
In 4.04 "Dyin on a Prayer" Monroe and Rosalee managed to recreate Adalind's spell and know how to get Nick's powers back.
In 4.05 "Cry Luison" the NBC recap includes:
"Monroe, Rosalee and Elizabeth explain that to reverse Adalind's spell, Juliette must transform into Adalind and make love to Nick in order for him to get his Grimm powers back. It's an unsettling idea for everyone involved but Elizabeth warns that not doing anything could be worse for Nick. She helpfully also suggests doing the deed in a dark room. After everyone leaves, Nick and Juliette discuss their options while Trubel heads to her room. Nick doesn't want to put Juliette through such an ordeal and instead, says he'd be up for returning to a normal life. Juliette agrees but a disappointed Trubel overhears.
. . .
While Nick may no longer be a Grimm, he's still pretty great at being a cop. But is that enough? Not so, apparently. In a private moment with Monroe, Nick finally comes clean and admits he misses being a Grimm; he's pissed that his powers were taken away and he wants them back. Good thing by episode's end then that Juliette is on board. In the pisode's final moments, Nick, Hank, Juliette, Monroe and Rosalee are enjoying a toast when flames rise up from the front lawn. A wolfsangel has been lit on fire and Rosalee reveals it's because she and Monroe got married. Taking one look at the blaze, Juliette declares, "You need to be a Grimm again."
Can you point me to the scene where Nick "deceived the love of his life into believing it's her idea and her idea alone?"
New Guy
RE: Juliette and her Men - TieDyeJackson - 10-13-2015
(10-13-2015, 12:13 PM)irukandji Wrote:(10-13-2015, 10:14 AM)TieDyeJackson Wrote: I see your point but you also have to take into consideration that it wasn't fair for her to expect that of Nick either.
Being a Grimm is a curse but it was also his birthright and over the course of the four seasons it became ingrained into his sense of self, it became a part of him.
Asking him to deny it was something that just couldn't be done because of it.
Juliette loved the idea of Nick but could not accept the Grimm within fully and that, coupled with a lot of bad reactions and emotions on both sides doomed the relationship.
Juliette didn't demand Nick give up his birthright. There was no birthright to give up. Nick lost it and no one was even close to finding a cure. All Juliette did was try to take their life together in a different direction. And from what we see, Nick gave Juliette the impression that he was ready to take his life a different direction with her.
This wasn't both of them. It was Nick all the way. He made a decision but refused to let Juliette in on it. That wasn't fair to her. It's one thing for Nick to want to be a Grimm again. It's another to deceive the love of his life into believing it's her idea and her idea alone.
She told Monroe and Rosalie point blank to not look for a cure without Nicks Knowledge. The only reason he even considered it was at her insisting.
RE: Juliette and her Men - irukandji - 10-13-2015
(10-13-2015, 04:56 PM)TieDyeJackson Wrote: She told Monroe and Rosalie point blank to not look for a cure without Nicks Knowledge. The only reason he even considered it was at her insisting.
No, that's not correct. Nick was the one who told Juliette that maybe the fact that he wasn't a Grimm any more was a good thing for him and Juliette.
Juliette went to Monroe and Rosalie later and told them that maybe they shouldn't be in such a hurry to cure Nick. She told them Nick wasn't so sure he wanted to be a Grimm anymore. All she asked was for a little more time to see if not being a Grimm was better for Nick than being a Grimm.
Juliette did not insist nor was anything kept secret from Nick. She only relayed to Monroe and Rosalee what Nick told her.
RE: Juliette and her Men - irukandji - 11-19-2015
Henrietta pretty much reduces Nick to putty by beginning to seduce him when he goes to visit her. She also tells him that what she does to him is nothing compared to what Juliette will be able to do. Or something like that since I am paraphrasing here.
So here's a question for discussion with regard to Juliette and her men.
We know Juliette seduced Renard and then ended up staying with him for a while. Renard's been blamed for violating Nick's trust when he did this.
But, if Juliette is as powerful as Henrietta said, was Renard compromised by her power and couldn't do anything but sleep with her?
RE: Juliette and her Men - GrimmsterAla - 11-19-2015
(11-19-2015, 09:01 AM)irukandji Wrote: Henrietta pretty much reduces Nick to putty by beginning to seduce him when he goes to visit her. She also tells him that what she does to him is nothing compared to what Juliette will be able to do. Or something like that since I am paraphrasing here.
So here's a question for discussion with regard to Juliette and her men.
We know Juliette seduced Renard and then ended up staying with him for a while. Renard's been blamed for violating Nick's trust when he did this.
But, if Juliette is as powerful as Henrietta said, was Renard compromised by her power and couldn't do anything but sleep with her?
Oh man. Good point. Now you have me really thinking and wondering. Hmmm...
I think both parties bear responsibility. Maybe, MAYBE Juliette did some mojo magic but her state of mind at the time was all over the place. I do not think if she used any magic it was intentional or that she did it knowingly.
RE: Juliette and her Men - izzy - 11-19-2015
(11-19-2015, 09:01 AM)irukandji Wrote: Henrietta pretty much reduces Nick to putty by beginning to seduce him when he goes to visit her. She also tells him that what she does to him is nothing compared to what Juliette will be able to do. Or something like that since I am paraphrasing here.
So here's a question for discussion with regard to Juliette and her men.
We know Juliette seduced Renard and then ended up staying with him for a while. Renard's been blamed for violating Nick's trust when he did this.
But, if Juliette is as powerful as Henrietta said, was Renard compromised by her power and couldn't do anything but sleep with her?
Great point, but as you know it makes no difference to me. Renard is single, Juliette is hot, if he did not do it he would proudly display his honor in public and kick himself as a fool privately till the day he died.
I know I now occasionally kick my self for my chivalrous attitude in my 20s and 30s. It is especially funny when, decades later, you run into the damsel and she is still annoyed that you did not take the then subtle offer.
RE: Juliette and her Men - New Guy - 11-19-2015
(11-19-2015, 09:01 AM)irukandji Wrote: Henrietta pretty much reduces Nick to putty by beginning to seduce him when he goes to visit her. She also tells him that what she does to him is nothing compared to what Juliette will be able to do. Or something like that since I am paraphrasing here.Hello Irukandji,
So here's a question for discussion with regard to Juliette and her men.
We know Juliette seduced Renard and then ended up staying with him for a while. Renard's been blamed for violating Nick's trust when he did this.
But, if Juliette is as powerful as Henrietta said, was Renard compromised by her power and couldn't do anything but sleep with her?
Here is one commentator's analysis:
http://www.oregonlive.com/movies/2015/04/grimm_season_4_episode_17_juli.html
What's up with Juliette and Renard?: We know that Juliette and Renard (Sasha Roiz) have a past obsessive connection, but we can blame that on a nasty spell cast by Adalind (Claire Coffee.) But what's up with Juliette confronting Renard in his bedroom, unbuttoning her blouse and announcing they're going to finish "what we started," touching his bruised face and asking, "Does that hurt?" then adding, "So will this." Instead of heading for the (West) hills, Renard kisses her. We know Hexenbiest have powerful seductive powers, but to quote the Captain himself, this can't be good.
Please recall how Juliette and Renard "make love" (hate sex):
http://www.nbc.com/grimm/video/crazy-in-love/n33604?onid=146231#vc146231=18
At least NBC didn't include another hate sex scene in the 4.17 Hibernaculum. Regardless, the 4.17 sex was totally consensual, totally vulgar and a total betrayal of Nick. If you want to speculate about an emotionally charged plot, picture Nick walking into the room while his boss and the love of his life are having gratuitous, masochistic sex.
New Guy
RE: Juliette and her Men - irukandji - 11-19-2015
(11-19-2015, 03:05 PM)New Guy Wrote: If you want to speculate about an emotionally charged plot, picture Nick walking into the room while his boss and the love of his life are having gratuitous, masochistic sex.
New Guy
Here's an even more emotionally charged plot, New Guy. Consider Juliette walking into the room while Nick, who was the love her life, and Henrietta are liplocked. This is after Juliette finally gets the courage to tell Nick she is a hexenbiest.
What would Juliette's reaction be? Maybe she might feel like she's been kicked in the stomach?
Then consider Nick's excuse....
"Oh.....HI.....um, Juliette, yes that's right, you're Juliette. Henrietta was just showing me how powerful YOU'RE going to be! It's really not what it looks like because I'm a Grimm and hexenbiests are our enemies! I didn't want to kiss her back, but she MADE me."
Uh huh, yeah sure, Nick. She made you.
If we're going to throw stones at Renard and say he broke Nick's trust, then we also have to consider that Nick broke Juliette's trust in the worst way possible. He couldn't even kiss the 'love of his life' as you call her. Yet he had no trouble falling into Henrietta's arms.
RE: Juliette and her Men - irukandji - 12-03-2015
If Juliette was to return, and immediately hooked up with Renard, does Nick have any right to punish Renard at this point? To me it seems kind of pointless. Several new storylines have developed since Nick and Juliette were a couple. Wouldn't it make more sense for Nick to just leave it alone?
RE: Juliette and her Men - Hexenadler - 12-03-2015
(12-03-2015, 06:18 AM)irukandji Wrote: If Juliette was to return, and immediately hooked up with Renard, does Nick have any right to punish Renard at this point? To me it seems kind of pointless. Several new storylines have developed since Nick and Juliette were a couple. Wouldn't it make more sense for Nick to just leave it alone?
Juliette and Renard hunkered down with each other (shudder), both fully aware Nick was alive and well. Nick and Adalind hunkered down (double shudder) after they thought Juliette was dead and gone. I think Nick would be entitled to his anger.