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+--- Thread: A trail of bread crumbs (/Thread-A-trail-of-bread-crumbs)
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - irukandji - 08-11-2015
Just from what I read, it appears episode 4.14 was the one where both Nick and Juliette were beginning to part ways. She was soon sleeping in her car after that, and then went to Renard. By episode 4.17, Nick was turning photos of him and Juliette face down. If that isn't an indication he's through with her, I don't know what is.
I'm not sure where this disdain of Nick comes from. I believe Renard slept with Juliette for the same reason guys sleep with women. They want to.
Nick has no business, no right, and no invitation to seek revenge. He and Juliette parted ways before she slept with Renard. Besides, he got his revenge. He had Juliette killed.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - New Guy - 08-12-2015
(08-11-2015, 06:35 PM)irukandji Wrote: Just from what I read, it appears episode 4.14 was the one where both Nick and Juliette were beginning to part ways. She was soon sleeping in her car after that, and then went to Renard. By episode 4.17, Nick was turning photos of him and Juliette face down. If that isn't an indication he's through with her, I don't know what is.Hi Irukandji,
I'm not sure where this disdain of Nick comes from. I believe Renard slept with Juliette for the same reason guys sleep with women. They want to.
Nick has no business, no right, and no invitation to seek revenge. He and Juliette parted ways before she slept with Renard. Besides, he got his revenge. He had Juliette killed.
Renard's disdain is part of his royal arrogance. For Renard every other person is inferior. They are all just pawns in his game. He was not in love with Juliette. Recall the hate sex scene at the house when Juliette took his gun and shot the place up.
Nick proposed to her. His love never ended. The hexen thing destroyed her. Renard was part of her destruction. I agree with several on the forum that Juliette died way before the end of season 4. Hexenette stole her body then killed her mind and spirit.
Nick still deeply loves Juliette. The hexen killed her. Nick did what was needed and Hexenette is also dead. Using this died twice theory one could argue Renard and Kenneth had sex with Juliette's corpse. If Nick uses this reasoning, then he will feel obligated to avenge Renard's desecration of Juliette's hexenized corpse.
If Nick attends the funeral, will he put the ring on her finger and kiss her goodbye? Nick likely feels major regret that he didn't eliminate Renard at the first face off. He will not be fooled again in face off #2.
New Guy
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - irukandji - 08-12-2015
(08-12-2015, 04:16 AM)New Guy Wrote:(08-11-2015, 06:35 PM)irukandji Wrote: Just from what I read, it appears episode 4.14 was the one where both Nick and Juliette were beginning to part ways. She was soon sleeping in her car after that, and then went to Renard. By episode 4.17, Nick was turning photos of him and Juliette face down. If that isn't an indication he's through with her, I don't know what is.Hi Irukandji,
I'm not sure where this disdain of Nick comes from. I believe Renard slept with Juliette for the same reason guys sleep with women. They want to.
Nick has no business, no right, and no invitation to seek revenge. He and Juliette parted ways before she slept with Renard. Besides, he got his revenge. He had Juliette killed.
Renard's disdain is part of his royal arrogance. For Renard every other person is inferior. They are all just pawns in his game. He was not in love with Juliette. Recall the hate sex scene at the house when Juliette took his gun and shot the place up.
Nick proposed to her. His love never ended. The hexen thing destroyed her. Renard was part of her destruction. I agree with several on the forum that Juliette died way before the end of season 4. Hexenette stole her body then killed her mind and spirit.
Nick still deeply loves Juliette. The hexen killed her. Nick did what was needed and Hexenette is also dead. Using this died twice theory one could argue Renard and Kenneth had sex with Juliette's corpse. If Nick uses this reasoning, then he will feel obligated to avenge Renard's desecration of Juliette's hexenized corpse.
If Nick attends the funeral, will he put the ring on her finger and kiss her goodbye? Nick likely feels major regret that he didn't eliminate Renard at the first face off. He will not be fooled again in face off #2.
New Guy
This is interesting to me and makes me wonder if the 'darkness' Nick is about to face is of his own doing. In short, he goes insane. This might be the beginning of it right here. He could blame Juliette and Renard, and then imagine other trumped up wrongs to add to his delusion. It'll be interesting to see if he takes responsibility for any of his actions.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - New Guy - 08-12-2015
Hi Irukandji,
I believe the “Darkness” is Nick’s anguish over the loss of his Aunt, his Mother and the Woman he loves. Nick may regret a lot of things he did or failed to do or say, but he was not the perpetrator of these deaths.
He was insane as the zombie thing. In his zombie rage he murdered some guy in the bar. He confessed to Renard who wanted him as his Grimm Pawn and covered up Nick’s crime by destroying evidence. The Royal Captain participates in a felony if it suits him. So we have seen Nick recover from insanity.
The evidentiary facts of the recent havoc murders in Portland will convict Juliette and the Royals. The dead bodies at the Royal compound and good detective work could be a problem for the Scooby team. Proper discovery of the facts about the murdered prostitutes would convict Renard. I thoroughly enjoyed Nick wasting Kenneth. Unfortunately Nick committed a homicide. Nick, Hank and Wu colluded and participated in evidence tampering so good police work could be difficult.
I doubt Nick will confess to any of the murders. That would be the end of the Grimm TV show. Can you imagine Renard having remorse about the prostitutes he murdered and providing a confession?
If Nick and Adalind open up real communication, how will Nick react to learning details about Renard sending her to the hospital to murder his Aunt? Will he think she “trumped up” that story?
The “wrongs” Nick has experienced are factual. The deaths of Marie, Kelly and Juliette are not delusions. There is no hope for justice in the human courts. Nick’s task will be to discover the persons responsible and deliver Grimm Justice.
New Guy
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - jsgrimm45 - 08-12-2015
(08-12-2015, 11:37 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Irukandji,Just a minor point in the episode Synchronicity Kelly said to Sean you tried to kill my sister. Sean said I wasn't personal she had a key. Kelly says Nick said you got it but returned it Sean says Nick is more important than the key and had I knew then what I know now I might have done it differently. So if Kelly knew Sean tried to kill Aunt Marie Nick must have known also. That doesn't change you other points.
I believe the “Darkness” is Nick’s anguish over the loss of his Aunt, his Mother and the Woman he loves. Nick may regret a lot of things he did or failed to do or say, but he was not the perpetrator of these deaths.
He was insane as the zombie thing. In his zombie rage he murdered some guy in the bar. He confessed to Renard who wanted him as his Grimm Pawn and covered up Nick’s crime by destroying evidence. The Royal Captain participates in a felony if it suits him. So we have seen Nick recover from insanity.
The evidentiary facts of the recent havoc murders in Portland will convict Juliette and the Royals. The dead bodies at the Royal compound and good detective work could be a problem for the Scooby team. Proper discovery of the facts about the murdered prostitutes would convict Renard. I thoroughly enjoyed Nick wasting Kenneth. Unfortunately Nick committed a homicide. Nick, Hank and Wu colluded and participated in evidence tampering so good police work could be difficult.
I doubt Nick will confess to any of the murders. That would be the end of the Grimm TV show. Can you imagine Renard having remorse about the prostitutes he murdered and providing a confession?
If Nick and Adalind open up real communication, how will Nick react to learning details about Renard sending her to the hospital to murder his Aunt? Will he think she “trumped up” that story?
The “wrongs” Nick has experienced are factual. The deaths of Marie, Kelly and Juliette are not delusions. There is no hope for justice in the human courts. Nick’s task will be to discover the persons responsible and deliver Grimm Justice.
New Guy
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - irukandji - 08-12-2015
(08-12-2015, 11:37 AM)New Guy Wrote: The “wrongs” Nick has experienced are factual. The deaths of Marie, Kelly and Juliette are not delusions. There is no hope for justice in the human courts. Nick’s task will be to discover the persons responsible and deliver Grimm Justice.
New Guy
Nick did not experience a 'wrong' from Juliette's death. He participated in having her murdered. As for Marie, js explained that Nick more than likely knew about Renard's attempt on Marie's life. Don't forget, New Guy, Renard and Marie would be mortal enemies and as a zauerbiest, he would view her as a mortal enemy. As for Kelly, Renard was in no way responsible for her death. That was Juliette all the way. Nick got his revenge for Kelly. He had Juliette murdered.
Nick's dark side could be insanity. Who's to say what revenge he might exact on Monroe? On Rosalee? It's already said he will eventually forgive Trubel. Forgive Trubel? That makes no sense. Trubel did what she was told. And this could be a good case for his insanity. He's passing blame to others when he should be taking responsibility for his actions.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - Elkhound - 08-12-2015
(08-12-2015, 12:15 PM)irukandji Wrote: Nick did not experience a 'wrong' from Juliette's death. He participated in having her murdered.
Killing in self-defense or the defense of a third party is not, as a matter of both law and ethics, murder.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - irukandji - 08-12-2015
(08-12-2015, 12:25 PM)Elkhound Wrote:(08-12-2015, 12:15 PM)irukandji Wrote: Nick did not experience a 'wrong' from Juliette's death. He participated in having her murdered.
Killing in self-defense or the defense of a third party is not, as a matter of both law and ethics, murder.
Agreed, with a caveat. That didn't happen here.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - wfmyers1207 - 08-12-2015
(08-12-2015, 12:27 PM)irukandji Wrote:(08-12-2015, 12:25 PM)Elkhound Wrote:(08-12-2015, 12:15 PM)irukandji Wrote: Nick did not experience a 'wrong' from Juliette's death. He participated in having her murdered.
Killing in self-defense or the defense of a third party is not, as a matter of both law and ethics, murder.
Agreed, with a caveat. That didn't happen here.
Beg to differ. Juliette announced her intent to kill Nick. That makes what Truble did defense of another life.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - irukandji - 08-12-2015
(08-12-2015, 01:01 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote:(08-12-2015, 12:27 PM)irukandji Wrote:(08-12-2015, 12:25 PM)Elkhound Wrote:(08-12-2015, 12:15 PM)irukandji Wrote: Nick did not experience a 'wrong' from Juliette's death. He participated in having her murdered.
Killing in self-defense or the defense of a third party is not, as a matter of both law and ethics, murder.
Agreed, with a caveat. That didn't happen here.
Beg to differ. Juliette announced her intent to kill Nick. That makes what Truble did defense of another life.
Yes but don't forget.....Nick actually tried to kill Juliette first.