+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: A trail of bread crumbs (/Thread-A-trail-of-bread-crumbs)
A trail of bread crumbs - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 08-10-2015
I know we have discussed a lot about Juliette’s plot but there is something about Nick is this plot that really bothers me and I would like to read about the forum’s ideas.
Answering another thread I started to think about this point and going deeper I realized that Juliette left a trail of clues in all her actions expecting that Nick realizes what she was doing. But Nick simply didn’t follow.
The explanation of my thoughts:
1. Kennethy, a royal, paid to free Juliette from jail. No Juliette action here, but this is the first bread crumb in the way. Nick didn’t try to find out who paid to free Juliette.
2. Juliette burned the trailer to get time to go to the house. While Nick was worried with the trailer and the stuff in it, Juliette had the time she needed to go to the house and use the computer to send the message to Kelly. Juliette had the caution to delete the sent message and the received message. But she left ashes on the mouse. The ashes in the mouse in the some night of the fire in the trailer, it is obvious Juliette used the computer while Nick was out. A little more imagination and Nick would conclude Juliette burned the trailer to have time to use the computer. But, no curiosity from Nick… nothing. Think about it… If Nick loves Juliette and believe she was there to see some photo or something about them, he should have tried to call her or something… If he believes she was there to delete something from the computer, for example, he would have asked Wu to analyse what Juliette did in there. There are softwares capable of recover delete files, for example… Just a little drop of curiosity here… and things would have being diferent.
3. Juliette went into the house with Kennethy and fornicated in the bed. She wanted Nick to know she was there with someone. Again, where was Nick curiosity? He remembered Adelaind. Nothing about Juliette.
Pause: Until here, no way I think it makes sense. If Nick loves Juliette, he would be jealous or worried about her. He should have tried to understand why she left those bread crumbs. If Nick felt nothing for her, his grimm instinct should indicates that Juliette was preparing something against him. A police car in front of the house (for example) and Kelly would not enter the house when she arrived.
The last bread crumb
4. I think Juliette left the cell phone turned on all the time after they took Diana. Wasn't that the last thing they remember to search?
Just after Kelly died Nick searched the clues, connected them and find out what happened. Really? A grimm detective? I can’t find a reasonable explanation for this line of events. He should have being more curious.
Did someone see something that I didn’t?
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - eric - 08-10-2015
I agree Nick is sometimes very uncurious. One of my first posts on this site was how did Wessen know who was a Grimm. Nick waited until the end of season 3 to ask that question. I have read several posts about turning off the cell phone. I am not too tech smart, but don't you have to remove the battery to get rid of the GPS signal? I think I have seen on other cop shows where no one ever does that and gets tracked. I think Juliette burned the trailer because it was a symbol of all the bad things that had happen to her life since she first saw it--S1E1. Until the end of season 4 she kept saying she wanted her old life back. When she realized good luck with that, she tried to destroy all of her old life. I think she has gotten the shortest end of the stick in this show. All that being said, I can't waiting until October.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - irukandji - 08-10-2015
This is a very interesting thread. Here is something else I just thought of.
Nick is supposedly this new kind of Grimm, an intermediary between wesen and humans, so to speak. In his own way, I've seen him as a scientist of sorts. So here's a hexenbiest right in his own house and what does he do? Completely ignores her, the new horizons and possibilities she represents, and continues killing wesen.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - jsgrimm45 - 08-10-2015
Every thing posted here is right but I will take a different angle. We the viewer have seen it all and we have seen the why behind it. If we look at from Nick's angle what does he know? One could use the bread crumbs in this way also Juliette wanted to be stopped even I don't believe that it's just a point for debate.
We know the trailer fire for Juliette had several meaning one she was destroying Aunt Marie , two she was ending the Scooby's den, three she got Nick out of the house for a time, four she was helping Kenneth, five she took something of meaning for Nick his history, six she shows us maybe not Nick she ending their relationship. Someone else may even see more. Questions is how would Nick see it would he connect all those crumbs?
The bed that flashback was of Adalind because the messed up bed was what got Juliette so upset just before the wedding. This also I think is the second time she tells Nick she not sure she can keep doing this the first was the damonfeuer case than at the wedding. So Nick knew something had likely happen but what was the message for him?
The cell phone I think one of two possible answers one she want to let Nick know where Kenneth was maybe some regret in Kelly death or two she wanted Nick to come there and maybe be killed so she wouldn't have to do it herself at this point, I believe she planed on Nick death one way or another.
Nick up until Kelly being killed had hope they could work this out so I think he was always looking toward the bright side and failed to see the crumbs because he didn't want to. If he does then he has to omit to himself it's over.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 08-10-2015
(08-10-2015, 02:53 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Every thing posted here is right but I will take a different angle. We the viewer have seen it all and we have seen the why behind it. If we look at from Nick's angle what does he know? One could use the bread crumbs in this way also Juliette wanted to be stopped even I don't believe that it's just a point for debate.
We know the trailer fire for Juliette had several meaning one she was destroying Aunt Marie , two she was ending the Scooby's den, three she got Nick out of the house for a time, four she was helping Kenneth, five she took something of meaning for Nick his history, six she shows us maybe not Nick she ending their relationship. Someone else may even see more. Questions is how would Nick see it would he connect all those crumbs?
The bed that flashback was of Adalind because the messed up bed was what got Juliette so upset just before the wedding. This also I think is the second time she tells Nick she not sure she can keep doing this the first was the damonfeuer case than at the wedding. So Nick knew something had likely happen but what was the message for him?
The cell phone I think one of two possible answers one she want to let Nick know where Kenneth was maybe some regret in Kelly death or two she wanted Nick to come there and maybe be killed so she wouldn't have to do it herself at this point, I believe she planed on Nick death one way or another.
Nick up until Kelly being killed had hope they could work this out so I think he was always looking toward the bright side and failed to see the crumbs because he didn't want to. If he does then he has to omit to himself it's over.
I understand your point. We had information Nick hadn’t. This means that probably Nick would get to different conclusions than those we know are the good ones.
The trailer fire, I am ok with that since Juliette called Nick and in that afternoon (if my memories serve me well) Juliette found out Adelaind was pregnant.
But when Nick arrived at home he saw the ashes in the computer, for example, and he didn’t question that. Maybe I am expecting Nick to think like me, but I would not sleep at Night asking myself WHY?
Why did she use the computer? Why did she leave the ashes? Nick didn’t turn on the computer. It was like nothing happened.
I accept Nick getting the wrong conclusions, Kelly dying (the writers have no other option), Juliette dying (they choose it)… I am ok with it. I question is: Why didn’t Nick make the questions? Where is his curiosity?
Maybe I would expect he acting as Sherlock Homes or something like that.
(08-10-2015, 02:04 PM)eric Wrote: I agree Nick is sometimes very uncurious.
Totally agree...
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - New Guy - 08-10-2015
Hi Grimm Fans,
Yes, there are times Nick looks clueless. However he did notice the computer has been used. He knew only Juliette could have lured Kelly to her death. There is a lot of discussion of what he should have done. She got put in jail for her hexen tirade in the bar. He knew not to trust a hexenbiest and knew Juliette was off the deep end. He should have done everything a cop would recommend if there is an identity breech; passwords, locks, surveillance, etc.
Nick is not stupid. He will see all the crumbs, identify the perpetrators and avenge all the foul acts Juliette and the Royals have done. He will hold Royal Bastard Prince Renard accountable and get his revenge.
The writers promise a lot of revenge action so I also look forward to season 5.
New Guy
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - eric - 08-11-2015
I agree that Nick will NOW put all the crumbs together. A good police show lets the clues build up until the end. The cops did not see the victim shot, the audience did. We know all about Kenneth, where the ashes came from, etc. Once he begins to work through all the clues, like a cop would, then he will figure out who the culprit is/was. The main thing I think he will not discover is Renard and Juillette, no crumb I see yet. This might be a source of worry for Renard, tho.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - New Guy - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 02:42 PM)eric Wrote: I agree that Nick will NOW put all the crumbs together. A good police show lets the clues build up until the end. The cops did not see the victim shot, the audience did. We know all about Kenneth, where the ashes came from, etc. Once he begins to work through all the clues, like a cop would, then he will figure out who the culprit is/was. The main thing I think he will not discover is Renard and Juillette, no crumb I see yet. This might be a source of worry for Renard, tho.Hi Eric,
Note that Nick does know about Renard and Juliette. She told Nick about the "secret." Per NBC's recap of 4.13:
"When Nick sees Juliette woge, he assumes Adalind is trying to trick
him and pulls his gun. But Juliette proves it's really her by
recounting Nick's proposal, something only she would know, and
begins to explain how this happened. It began innocently enough
with feelings of nausea, but then the woges started. They even
helped her kill her attacker at the tribunal and the Manticore. When
Nick asks why she didn't immediately tell him, Juliette says she was
scared he'd kill her (and him pulling a gun on her kind of proves her
right). Nick, overcome with guilt that his becoming a Grimm again is
at fault for Juliette's transformation, vows to find a way to reverse it,
but Juliette's not done disclosing secrets. She admits she turned to
Captain Renard first for help and fills Nick in on her meetings with
Henrietta, including her belief that Juliette's condition is permanent.
Feeling shocked, and probably betrayed, Nick walks out."
Note that Nick felt "shocked and probably betrayed." At the end of season 4 it is likely Juliette's "things" are still in Renard's apartment. She will also be on any surveillance videos unless Renard has already stolen them. Nick is a sharp detective and will quickly understand how Renard betrayed him and lead Juliette into depravity, demise and death.
Renard is the person/royal/wessen most responsible for Nick's misfortunes. Renard is guilty, guilty, guilty and Nick wants revenge, revenge, revenge!
New Guy
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - irukandji - 08-11-2015
Hi New Guy-
Juliette told Nick she went to Renard for help and he sent her to Henrietta. Nick was upset that she Renard before she told him. That's what he felt betrayed about. Juliette never mentioned she slept with Sean.
RE: A trail of bread crumbs - New Guy - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 05:47 PM)irukandji Wrote: Hi New Guy-Hi Irukandji,
Juliette told Nick she went to Renard for help and he sent her to Henrietta. Nick was upset that she Renard before she told him. That's what he felt betrayed about. Juliette never mentioned she slept with Sean.
It was 4.13 that she told Nick about being with Renard. It was 4.17 when they had sex. Renard's goal was to demonstrate his disdain for Nick. Juliette's goal was to demonstrate her hatred of Nick. Juliette likely left "bread crumbs" to be certain Nick would know. Their sex was a huge betrayal of Nick. Juliette has paid with her life. We will wait to see what price Nick will charge Renard. Vengance is mine saith the Grimm.
New Guy