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RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 08-05-2015

(08-05-2015, 04:17 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote:
(08-05-2015, 03:36 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:
(08-05-2015, 02:25 PM)New Guy Wrote:
(08-05-2015, 10:30 AM)irukandji Wrote: It was going to be either Nick or Trubel who killed Juliette. When Nick couldn't do it, Trubel did the job for him. That was Nick's backup plan. There was never any intention of showing mercy to Juliette.
Hi Irukandji,
I doubt Nick had any plan for Juliette. He likely thought she was on the helicopter with Freddy and Diana. Juliette surprised (ambushed?) Nick and the rest is per the recap. The word "mercy" is from NBC's recap, and as a viewer that is what I saw.
Trubel cared about both Nick and Juliette. One could say Trubel carried out a "mercy killing" similar to when a Veterinarian puts down an animal. Nick had told Trubel to kill Juliette and Trubel heard Juliette ask Nick to "do it." Fortunately, Trubel has fast instinct in a life and death crisis.
New Guy
I have always thought that Trubel showed up a Nick's because when else was going. I also believe Trubel had the crossbow for Chavez and only used it to protect Nick. Like you said as far as the Scooby's knew Juliette was with the King. No planning just happened.

This is one time I disagree with you. The way things went down, I thought Nick and Truble set it up. He thought he might not be able to do it, so he had Truble as back up.


The writers didn't show it clearly. Unless they explain this in the beginning 9f season 5 this is all speculation.
My two cents is that they planned nothing. Nick went back home alone. Trubel was worried that the royals could try to kill Nick again and went to the house as some kind of guard. That is way she was with the crossbow, to protect Nick if any verrat appear there.
Actually, I would bet more one cent that the king sent Juliette back to kill Nick.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - irukandji - 08-05-2015

Quote:wfmyers1207 wrote:
Item 1: He CHOSE to re-Grimm after the shat hit the fan! Come on, was he going to let his "kid sister" handle it all! We can be all "girl power" and that, but what man would let a young woman take on that by herself when he could at least cover her back?

He chose to re-Grimm or did he make it sound like he was re-choosing to be a Grimm? See, the thing of it is, Nick didn't ask to have his powers taken away. He didn't struggle day after day after day, debating why he became a Grimm. When the crime scene call came, he didn't mope or complain. He grabbed his gun, pumped up his adrenaline, and was off. He can do the male equivalent of the classic and totally phony 'what do you think, Dear?' to Juliette, about whether or not he should re-Grimm. But Juliette herself saw the writing on the wall. Nick lives for being a Grimm. He loves the high of it. *She'd* be the blame for the rest of his life if he passed it up.

I could tell he cared less about any side effects to her because he never did the one thing to prove it. He never asked what could happen.

I'm not sure who the young woman is that's being referred to, but there was no plan for anyone to rescue Monroe alone. Even Nick himself wouldn't risk that.

Quote:wfmyers1207 wrote:
Item 2: Would you kiss someone who looked like a six month old corpse?:

Let's put it this way. There are men who love their women so completely and totally they will do anything for them. And there are men who won't. There are women out there who love their men so completely and totally they will do anything for them. And there are women who won't.

You can call her a corpse, you can say she didn't mean it, she was testing Nick, she was a bitch hexenbiest, whatever. It can be covered up a thousand ways so that Nick looks like the hero and Juliette looks like the slut wesen. But the fact of the matter remains. She proved she was willing to do anything to make him happy. I'd say that's a pretty good argument for proof that she loved Nick totally and completely.

Maybe her reasons for asking for a kiss were less than stellar. In point of fact, it doesn't matter what her reasons were. She wanted a kiss from him. He refused.

She proved she loved him completely and totally. What exactly did Nick prove? That he was incapable of understanding as well as a gutless, spineless wonder.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - wfmyers1207 - 08-05-2015

(08-05-2015, 06:10 PM)irukandji Wrote:
Quote:wfmyers1207 wrote:
Item 1: He CHOSE to re-Grimm after the shat hit the fan! Come on, was he going to let his "kid sister" handle it all! We can be all "girl power" and that, but what man would let a young woman take on that by herself when he could at least cover her back?

He chose to re-Grimm or did he make it sound like he was re-choosing to be a Grimm? See, the thing of it is, Nick didn't ask to have his powers taken away. He didn't struggle day after day after day, debating why he became a Grimm. When the crime scene call came, he didn't mope or complain. He grabbed his gun, pumped up his adrenaline, and was off. He can do the male equivalent of the classic and totally phony 'what do you think, Dear?' to Juliette, about whether or not he should re-Grimm. But Juliette herself saw the writing on the wall. Nick lives for being a Grimm. He loves the high of it. *She'd* be the blame for the rest of his life if he passed it up.

I could tell he cared less about any side effects to her because he never did the one thing to prove it. He never asked what could happen.

I'm not sure who the young woman is that's being referred to, but there was no plan for anyone to rescue Monroe alone. Even Nick himself wouldn't risk that.

Quote:wfmyers1207 wrote:
Item 2: Would you kiss someone who looked like a six month old corpse?:

Let's put it this way. There are men who love their women so completely and totally they will do anything for them. And there are men who won't. There are women out there who love their men so completely and totally they will do anything for them. And there are women who won't.

You can call her a corpse, you can say she didn't mean it, she was testing Nick, she was a bitch hexenbiest, whatever. It can be covered up a thousand ways so that Nick looks like the hero and Juliette looks like the slut wesen. But the fact of the matter remains. She proved she was willing to do anything to make him happy. I'd say that's a pretty good argument for proof that she loved Nick totally and completely.

Maybe her reasons for asking for a kiss were less than stellar. In point of fact, it doesn't matter what her reasons were. She wanted a kiss from him. He refused.

She proved she loved him completely and totally. What exactly did Nick prove? That he was incapable of understanding as well as a gutless, spineless wonder.

I want to see you do [email protected]


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - irukandji - 08-05-2015

(08-05-2015, 06:18 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: I want to see you do [email protected]

Was this directed at me?


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - jsgrimm45 - 08-06-2015

(08-05-2015, 04:17 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote:
(08-05-2015, 03:36 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:
(08-05-2015, 02:25 PM)New Guy Wrote:
(08-05-2015, 10:30 AM)irukandji Wrote: It was going to be either Nick or Trubel who killed Juliette. When Nick couldn't do it, Trubel did the job for him. That was Nick's backup plan. There was never any intention of showing mercy to Juliette.
Hi Irukandji,
I doubt Nick had any plan for Juliette. He likely thought she was on the helicopter with Freddy and Diana. Juliette surprised (ambushed?) Nick and the rest is per the recap. The word "mercy" is from NBC's recap, and as a viewer that is what I saw.
Trubel cared about both Nick and Juliette. One could say Trubel carried out a "mercy killing" similar to when a Veterinarian puts down an animal. Nick had told Trubel to kill Juliette and Trubel heard Juliette ask Nick to "do it." Fortunately, Trubel has fast instinct in a life and death crisis.
New Guy
I have always thought that Trubel showed up a Nick's because when else was going. I also believe Trubel had the crossbow for Chavez and only used it to protect Nick. Like you said as far as the Scooby's knew Juliette was with the King. No planning just happened.

This is one time I disagree with you. The way things went down, I thought Nick and Truble set it up. He thought he might not be able to do it, so he had Truble as back up.
Disagree not a problem in fact I will even put out a way to create to your point (haven't change my mind). Lets go to Hank and Nick after Nick kills Kenneth paraphrasing Hank says something like remember what happen last time we pulled a gun on Juliette didn't go so well, Nick responded we need Turbel. Now go to the mansion Kenneth asks Juliette what Nick will do she said be will be looking for me. With Juliette statement showed she understands Nick with that we have to assume Nick understands her also.

Nick knew Juliette would not leave Portland without some ending to the relationship. See this is where I start to disagree I never even after what Nick said kill her saw him wanting her dead.The heat of the "Moment" statement. Will grant that the Scooby's would have done it at the mansion. Possible question did she tell the King she would kill Nick we should look at that. or al least we have to consider it?

Getting to Trubel the woman she ws talking to in Bud truck (we think Chavez) when she said I will call you when I get to the house. Is it possible that Trubel intended to deliver Juliette to Chavez, and for those who want Juliette back at some point the bolts were filled with the zombie potion. Trubel likely knows the cure so after they bury Juliette the dig her up and put her in a hexen proof ceil an give her the cure.

We never see Nick and Trubel alone together can Nick be sure Juliette will show up at the house alone (looks like they did kill all her help)? When will she show up? Would Nick want Trubel to have that guilt as Juliette had always be kind to her? This is the one statement is why I think it was unplanned. I can see Nick knowing that Juliette would show up, but I see it as him wanting to end it and both go there own ways not in death.

I get back to another point with hexen's and Grimm's in all fight the hexen has to use hand on looks to me that their telekinesis doesn't work around a Grimm.Dodgy This has nothing to do with his post I just find it of interest.Huh

Now for the most interesting question why didn't Juliette turn off her phone she knows police work (even us fans from other shows would know to turn off you phone and pull the battery) she knows Wu will track her phone. Was she leading the Scooby's to the mansion if I go this way than she didn't mean for Kelly to die. I could live with that and give her the benefit of the doubt maybe.Dodgy

With out you point wfmyer I would not even stopped to think about this. Still haven't changed my mind but after thought I can see away to go so now I do have some questions. This the fun of the forumIdea


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - irukandji - 08-06-2015

Quote:jsgrimm45 wrote:
Nick knew Juliette would not leave Portland without some ending to the relationship. See this is where I start to disagree I never even after what Nick said kill her saw him wanting her dead.The heat of the "Moment" statement. Will grant that the Scooby's would have done it at the mansion. Possible question did she tell the King she would kill Nick we should look at that. or al least we have to consider it?

It might come down to what they both know.

When Nick went into the bedroom and looked at the bed, he saw messed up sheets. Besides the tussle on the bed, what else might that mean to him? Could he have looked at it and guessed that Juliette wasn't going anywhere? I can't speak for everyone, but when I go on a trip and come home, there's always evidence around the house of things I was going to take, but decided at the last minute not to take.

There was nothing of the kind in the bedroom. No pairs of shoes put neatly out, or extra articles of clothing, no piles of sorted jewelry. There's not even evidence that she pulled out a suitcase.

Juliette knows Nick wants her dead, it's the reason she allowed him to attempt to strangle her. She also knows that if she leaves, he'll follow her until he kills her.

He knows she's not leaving and she knows he wants her dead. The thing she didn't plan on was Trubel as backup. Nick had one up on her on that one.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - jsgrimm45 - 08-06-2015

(08-06-2015, 05:22 AM)irukandji Wrote:
Quote:jsgrimm45 wrote:
Nick knew Juliette would not leave Portland without some ending to the relationship. See this is where I start to disagree I never even after what Nick said kill her saw him wanting her dead.The heat of the "Moment" statement. Will grant that the Scooby's would have done it at the mansion. Possible question did she tell the King she would kill Nick we should look at that. or al least we have to consider it?

It might come down to what they both know.

When Nick went into the bedroom and looked at the bed, he saw messed up sheets. Besides the tussle on the bed, what else might that mean to him? Could he have looked at it and guessed that Juliette wasn't going anywhere? I can't speak for everyone, but when I go on a trip and come home, there's always evidence around the house of things I was going to take, but decided at the last minute not to take.

There was nothing of the kind in the bedroom. No pairs of shoes put neatly out, or extra articles of clothing, no piles of sorted jewelry. There's not even evidence that she pulled out a suitcase.

Juliette knows Nick wants her dead, it's the reason she allowed him to attempt to strangle her. She also knows that if she leaves, he'll follow her until he kills her.

He knows she's not leaving and she knows he wants her dead. The thing she didn't plan on was Trubel as backup. Nick had one up on her on that one.
Once again we disagree that is what makes for a good debate. If I believe in horoscopes (which I don't) I would bet your were a Sagittarius because I'm a Gemini. Big Grin Question do we know how much Juliette took when she move out we didn't see anything but she may have come back later? Until Kenneth told him about Juliette can't be sure Nick really knew about the bed, but I will give you that one knowing how jealous he and she very likely he did at least think something had happen in the bed.

Where we disagree is that Nick really wanted her dead and had a backup plan with Trubel. So we are at the agree to disagree. Sure are good debates. ThanksBig Grin


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - irukandji - 08-06-2015

Quote:jsgrimm45 wrote
Once again we disagree that is what makes for a good debate.[/quote]

I think in our case, it'd be safe to say we'll never agree.

From all the talk of what powers Nick is capable of, it doesn't make sense that he would blunder into his own house alone and unprepared.

Quote:jsgrimm45 wrote:
Question do we know how much Juliette took when she move out we didn't see anything but she may have come back later? Until Kenneth told him about Juliette can't be sure Nick really knew about the bed, but I will give you that one knowing how jealous he and she very likely he did at least think something had happen in the bed.

js, it doesn't matter if Nick knew if Juliette was forking Kenneth or not. The point I was trying to make is that Nick would have seen immediately that Juliette was not planning to leave. The bed was a mess, there were no suitcases out, nothing set aside as if she were making a decision as to what to take and what to leave behind. Her things were still there.

Juliette knew Nick wanted to kill her. It's pretty obvious after she participated in betraying Kelly. That act is not going to put her on his good side.

So Nick knows Juliette didn't leave and Juliette knows he wants to kill her. The audience does too. He declared it to the Scooby gang.

So when Nick returns home and Juliette is there, what does she do?
She lets him. It's Nick who stops because he can't do it.

But all along, everyone's talked about Nick's powers and resourceful he is. Even the actors have talked about how dangerous Juliette is and how much more powerful she's going to become. It doesn't make sense that Nick would let her go simply because he senses a weakness in himself. He would have a contingency plan and that plan was Trubel. There's no reason why she'd be carrying a crossbow or appear at Nick's house just in time unless he told her. And what perfect opportunity to let Juliette throw him around so Trubel would have time to get good shots in?

This is my take on it and my take only. I have yet to see anyone come up with an explanation of why Trubel just suddenly shows up with the crossbow and at the right time.

By the way, I am not a Sagittarius. Good guess though, lol.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - wfmyers1207 - 08-06-2015

I'm with irukandji on this one. Ever since the episode aired I figured what happened at the house was a planned ambush. No way Truble just happens to be there packing that double crossbow!Dodgy

Nick knew what had to be done. He was also afraid he couldn't bring himself to do it, she was the love of his life after all. So, he asked Truble to back him up and she did.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - jsgrimm45 - 08-06-2015

(08-06-2015, 08:36 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: I'm with irukandji on this one. Ever since the episode aired I figured what happened at the house was a planned ambush. No way Truble just happens to be there packing that double crossbow!Dodgy

Nick knew what had to be done. He was also afraid he couldn't bring himself to do it, she was the love of his life after all. So, he asked Truble to back him up and she did.
You may well be right that's the point of a good debate. You see Trubel with the crossbow for Juliette I see Trubel with the crossbow for Chavez. Debates like this is why I find the forum so entertaining. Thanks Wink