(05-12-2019, 06:12 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(05-12-2019, 04:27 AM)N_grimm Wrote: When I respond to something, you consistently turn around and pretend my statements is about something completely different. You claimed Nick took the “I love you”– statement back, that he never told Adalind.

This is what you said:

(05-11-2019, 05:34 PM)irukandji Wrote: So.....according to you, Nick doesn't have to tell Adalind he loves her because he went through hell for her. I see. So he didn't want the scoobies back, alive, or his precinct, or anyone. Just Adalind, right?
The point is, the scene never happened because Nick wanted to come back at a certain point in time. But again, I'll look at any script notes you care to share if you feel differently. Finally, when does Adalind find out that Nick went though hell for her?

Nick killes the devil to get Adalind back. He then removes her ring and declares Adalind, Diana and Kelly are his family. We then get the 20 years later scene, where we learn that Nick and Adalind are waiting for their children, while Kelly is signing the book with Kelly Burkhardt (not Kelly- Shade-Burkhardt). That was enough for the Grimm wiki to put Adalind as Nick’s wife.

If her son knows what happend, Adalind knows what happend! Instead of accepting that point, you pretend you never said it.

You're assuming Kelly knows everything because Nick told him everything. I'm saying the only thing we know is what Kelly quoted at the end of the series:

Quote:But this time Zerstoerer did not come through the mirror anywhere in the world. Because in the final, epic battle with the terrible beast from the Other Place, Nick Burkhardt discovered that the only way to defeat such evil was with the strength of his blood, his Aunt Marie, his mother Kelly, and Trubel, his third cousin on his mother's side the power of our ancestors.

And though the people of our world would never know how close they had come to hell on Earth, we knew, because he never turned away from who he was, a Grimm.
And for that reason, the world was changed.

Some will say it's just myth, legend, or fairy tale, but I know it's true because my father told me so.

Kelly writes that Nick discovered the blood of the grimm and that allowed him to defeat evil. Well, in point of fact, Nick was going to give the shard to Z because he was so despondent over losing his little world. He was ready to sacrifice humanity because of his loss.

In point of fact, Nick didn't discover anything. It was Kelly and Marie who explained the power of the blood of the grimm and they, along with Trubel, assisted Nick in defeating the Z. Where's all of that in Kelly's narrative? Did Nick deliberately omit those facts from his story?

Nick's doubtfulness and lack of faith in himself are an important part of the story because they show just how human he is. Yet Kelly mentions nothing of them and instead glorifies the excerpt. Nick may have been completely honest with him. But then the question changes to why Kelly then made the decision to omit certain parts of the adventure. For that matter, I have to wonder why Nick would wait a quarter of a century before even relating the story to his son. I also wonder exactly what world change is Kelly referring to. Seems at the end of 20 years, things are no better if, as Diana points out, there are wesen to kill versus Nick being called to the scene to make that determination.

As for the name change, you were the one who brought it up with this quote:

Quote:Nick killes the devil to get Adalind back. He then removes her ring and declares Adalind, Diana and Kelly are his family. We then get the 20 years later scene, where we learn that Nick and Adalind are waiting for their children, while Kelly is signing the book with Kelly Burkhardt (not Kelly- Shade-Burkhardt). That was enough for the Grimm wiki to put Adalind as Nick’s wife.

I was responding by stating that Kelly could not simply change his name even *if* Adalind married Nick and changed hers to Adalind Burkhardt.

Quote:When I respond to something, you consistently turn around and pretend my statements is about something completely different. You claimed Nick took the “I love you”– statement back, that he never told Adalind.

Weren't you the one who, sometime back, talked about parallel universes and in the universe Nick left, everyone was still dead?

Even if your parallel universe theory is a correct one, Nick telling Adalind "I love you" didn't happen because he changed it all. So how/when would this statement have occurred?

I get that you're saying Nick's actions should speak louder than words, but I'm not sure what actions you see that reflect any kind of love for Adalind. Nick treats her the way he's always treated her. The only difference is she's now his bed buddy. Maybe that's an elevation in status in the Burkhardt household, but as far as doing anything special for her to show she has meaning in his life, I didn't see that. Even Adalind herself is lazy in that department. Aside from telling Nick she loves him and then removing her shirt to show she's willing to bed him, what has she done to show he's special? Not a lot if you consider how easily she went off to the mansion.

You say Nick went through hell for Adalind. The problem is, she isn't even aware of it because she's dead. This is why those three words from Nick to Adalind are so important. There is no other way to know these two really love each other.

(05-12-2019, 12:51 PM)N_grimm Wrote: There is nothing I can write that will make you see the show true less cynical glasses, so I will just stop. But at least I tried.

(05-12-2019, 12:51 PM)N_grimm Wrote:

(05-12-2019, 06:12 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(05-12-2019, 04:27 AM)N_grimm Wrote: When I respond to something, you consistently turn around and pretend my statements is about something completely different. You claimed Nick took the “I love you”– statement back, that he never told Adalind.

This is what you said:

(05-11-2019, 05:34 PM)irukandji Wrote: So.....according to you, Nick doesn't have to tell Adalind he loves her because he went through hell for her. I see. So he didn't want the scoobies back, alive, or his precinct, or anyone. Just Adalind, right?
The point is, the scene never happened because Nick wanted to come back at a certain point in time. But again, I'll look at any script notes you care to share if you feel differently. Finally, when does Adalind find out that Nick went though hell for her?

Nick killes the devil to get Adalind back. He then removes her ring and declares Adalind, Diana and Kelly are his family. We then get the 20 years later scene, where we learn that Nick and Adalind are waiting for their children, while Kelly is signing the book with Kelly Burkhardt (not Kelly- Shade-Burkhardt). That was enough for the Grimm wiki to put Adalind as Nick’s wife.

If her son knows what happend, Adalind knows what happend! Instead of accepting that point, you pretend you never said it.

You're assuming Kelly knows everything because Nick told him everything. I'm saying the only thing we know is what Kelly quoted at the end of the series:

Quote:But this time Zerstoerer did not come through the mirror anywhere in the world. Because in the final, epic battle with the terrible beast from the Other Place, Nick Burkhardt discovered that the only way to defeat such evil was with the strength of his blood, his Aunt Marie, his mother Kelly, and Trubel, his third cousin on his mother's side the power of our ancestors.

And though the people of our world would never know how close they had come to hell on Earth, we knew, because he never turned away from who he was, a Grimm.
And for that reason, the world was changed.

Some will say it's just myth, legend, or fairy tale, but I know it's true because my father told me so.

Kelly writes that Nick discovered the blood of the grimm and that allowed him to defeat evil. Well, in point of fact, Nick was going to give the shard to Z because he was so despondent over losing his little world. He was ready to sacrifice humanity because of his loss.

In point of fact, Nick didn't discover anything. It was Kelly and Marie who explained the power of the blood of the grimm and they, along with Trubel, assisted Nick in defeating the Z. Where's all of that in Kelly's narrative? Did Nick deliberately omit those facts from his story?

Nick's doubtfulness and lack of faith in himself are an important part of the story because they show just how human he is. Yet Kelly mentions nothing of them and instead glorifies the excerpt. Nick may have been completely honest with him. But then the question changes to why Kelly then made the decision to omit certain parts of the adventure. For that matter, I have to wonder why Nick would wait a quarter of a century before even relating the story to his son. I also wonder exactly what world change is Kelly referring to. Seems at the end of 20 years, things are no better if, as Diana points out, there are wesen to kill versus Nick being called to the scene to make that determination.

As for the name change, you were the one who brought it up with this quote:

Quote:Nick killes the devil to get Adalind back. He then removes her ring and declares Adalind, Diana and Kelly are his family. We then get the 20 years later scene, where we learn that Nick and Adalind are waiting for their children, while Kelly is signing the book with Kelly Burkhardt (not Kelly- Shade-Burkhardt). That was enough for the Grimm wiki to put Adalind as Nick’s wife.

I was responding by stating that Kelly could not simply change his name even *if* Adalind married Nick and changed hers to Adalind Burkhardt.

Quote:When I respond to something, you consistently turn around and pretend my statements is about something completely different. You claimed Nick took the “I love you”– statement back, that he never told Adalind.

Weren't you the one who, sometime back, talked about parallel universes and in the universe Nick left, everyone was still dead?

Even if your parallel universe theory is a correct one, Nick telling Adalind "I love you" didn't happen because he changed it all. So how/when would this statement have occurred?

I get that you're saying Nick's actions should speak louder than words, but I'm not sure what actions you see that reflect any kind of love for Adalind. Nick treats her the way he's always treated her. The only difference is she's now his bed buddy. Maybe that's an elevation in status in the Burkhardt household, but as far as doing anything special for her to show she has meaning in his life, I didn't see that. Even Adalind herself is lazy in that department. Aside from telling Nick she loves him and then removing her shirt to show she's willing to bed him, what has she done to show he's special? Not a lot if you consider how easily she went off to the mansion.

You say Nick went through hell for Adalind. The problem is, she isn't even aware of it because she's dead. This is why those three words from Nick to Adalind are so important. There is no other way to know these two really love each other.

There is nothing I can write that will make you see the show true less cynical glasses, so I will just stop. But at least I tried.

Quote:“And though the people of our world would never know how close they had come to hell on Earth, we knew, because he never turned away from who he was, a Grimm. And for that reason, the world was changed.

(05-12-2019, 05:58 AM)brandon Wrote: What wanted to say is that in life you have to accept bad things like good times.

(05-13-2019, 06:35 AM)brandon Wrote: I would say there will always be hidden secrets and they would be the " Wesen".

(08-03-2020, 12:25 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(05-13-2019, 06:35 AM)brandon Wrote: I would say there will always be hidden secrets and they would be the " Wesen".

But that raises another question. Nick was ready to give up and it was at that moment of weakness which brought his mother and aunt to him, the blood of the Grimms. Would Nick have talked about that moment of weakness so that Kelly could document it? Or would he have left that out?

(08-05-2020, 04:31 AM)Tish Wrote:

(08-03-2020, 12:25 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(05-13-2019, 06:35 AM)brandon Wrote: I would say there will always be hidden secrets and they would be the " Wesen".

But that raises another question. Nick was ready to give up and it was at that moment of weakness which brought his mother and aunt to him, the blood of the Grimms. Would Nick have talked about that moment of weakness so that Kelly could document it? Or would he have left that out?

Why wouldn't he -- it looks like he did based on the fact that his son is writing in the book 20 years later.  The Grimm books were not known for hiding the good the bad and the ugly about themselves.  There are several times where books by the Grimms documents that they murder a particular strain of Wesen just because they are Wesen.  Also, they document when they don't successfully destroy something because it's important information.  Nick's moment of weakness is an important part of explaining just HOW important the blood of a Grimm is to keeping the evil at bay.  So yes, I do think he revealed that moment to Kelly -- because there could come a time when Kelly may be in something similar -- and need to know from his father just how to conquer that moment of weakness when you want to give into the evil to get what you want most in the world back. This is speculation on my part -- not anything specifically written or portrayed in the show -- just my observation from watching the overall arc of the show.

(08-05-2020, 04:31 AM)Tish Wrote:

(08-03-2020, 12:25 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(05-13-2019, 06:35 AM)brandon Wrote: I would say there will always be hidden secrets and they would be the " Wesen".

But that raises another question. Nick was ready to give up and it was at that moment of weakness which brought his mother and aunt to him, the blood of the Grimms. Would Nick have talked about that moment of weakness so that Kelly could document it? Or would he have left that out?

Why wouldn't he -- it looks like he did based on the fact that his son is writing in the book 20 years later.  The Grimm books were not known for hiding the good the bad and the ugly about themselves.  There are several times where books by the Grimms documents that they murder a particular strain of Wesen just because they are Wesen.  Also, they document when they don't successfully destroy something because it's important information.  Nick's moment of weakness is an important part of explaining just HOW important the blood of a Grimm is to keeping the evil at bay.  So yes, I do think he revealed that moment to Kelly -- because there could come a time when Kelly may be in something similar -- and need to know from his father just how to conquer that moment of weakness when you want to give into the evil to get what you want most in the world back. This is speculation on my part -- not anything specifically written or portrayed in the show -- just my observation from watching the overall arc of the show.