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Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - Printable Version

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RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - irukandji - 05-03-2019

(05-01-2019, 10:48 AM)N_grimm Wrote: Catherine Schade was a terrible mother – turning her back on her daughter when she was in a vulnerable situation – as a result of Adalind trying to please her and Renard. But she was also a hypocritical person/beast.

You believe Catherine was a terrible mother. Then she never would have taught Adalind the difference between good and evil. Correct?

(05-01-2019, 10:48 AM)N_grimm Wrote: Adalind turned from an evil witch to Nick's girlfriend and important member of the Burkhardt-Schade-family. The only houseguest in season 6 was Eve.

Adalind is Nick's guest. She's Nick's bed buddy and sleeps with him. Being an important member of the Burkhardt-Schade family really is no big deal. Nick can boot her out of the fome any time she chooses and as she showed, she was free to leave the fome at any time.

(05-01-2019, 10:48 AM)N_grimm Wrote: Why did Adalind change? Partly because she became a mother, something that changed her perspective on life. Partly because she discovered she did not need to be evil and manipulating to survive. Nick showed her the kindness and respect she never experienced during her evil years (maybe except for the short time period Meisner helped her).

I think a big misconception here is that because Adalind became a mother, she became a good person. One is not the result of another. Women can be great mothers and at the same time, terrible people in general.

Aside from that, I don't see Adalind as the deep thought type, pondering upon her discoveries. I think she's a survivor and in order to stay in Nick's house, she has to get along with him. She wants to sleep with him and vice versa, so mission accomplished.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - brandon - 05-04-2019

I would say that being raised in filth is not an endorsement so that a person can not think for himself.
That did Adalind, get ahead despite his background.
Juliette, on the other hand, sank deeper into the darkness even though she had a good upbringing


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - irukandji - 05-04-2019

Who said Adalind was raised in filth?


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - N_grimm - 05-04-2019

(05-03-2019, 10:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: You believe Catherine was a terrible mother. Then she never would have taught Adalind the difference between good and evil. Correct?

Catherine was portrayed as a villain and Adalind was influenced by her. Exactly what she taught Adalind regarding moral questions is unclear, but it’s probably not what normal people tell their kids. All we really know is that Catherine educated Adalind in spells and potions.

(05-03-2019, 10:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: Adalind is Nick's guest. She's Nick's bed buddy and sleeps with him. Being an important member of the Burkhardt-Schade family really is no big deal. Nick can boot her out of the fome any time she chooses and as she showed, she was free to leave the fome at any time.

Nick bought the paint factory (probably) for money from the sale of the house - which he owned. He could also have kicked out Juliette back in the days. Of course, Adalind was free to leave the fome at any time. Did you expect Nick to keep her in cage? It’s true that Adalind was depending on Nick initially, but towards the end of season 5, the relationship was put to the test. When Adalind was forced to leave, Nick fought to get her back. And Adalind was given the opportunity to stay at the Mayor’s Mansion, but instead moved back to Nick’s loft. They both made an active choose to be together.

(05-03-2019, 10:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: I think a big misconception here is that because Adalind became a mother, she became a good person. One is not the result of another. Women can be great mothers and at the same time, terrible people in general.

Yes, but there is no indication in the storyline that Adalind did not become a good person. She express regret for the evil stuff she did in the past, she is completely loyal to Nick and doesn’t want anything to do with the villains Renard and BC.

(05-03-2019, 10:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: Aside from that, I don't see Adalind as the deep thought type, pondering upon her discoveries. I think she's a survivor and in order to stay in Nick's house, she has to get along with him. She wants to sleep with him and vice versa, so mission accomplished.

After the end of season 4/beginning of season 5, there is no indication in the storyline that Adalind only stays with Nick to survive. Adalind was completely loyal to Nick when she had the opportunity to betray him. Renard wanted to sleep with Adalind in season 5, so if she was the manipulative survivor you claim, why did she kick Renard’s ass and declare: “I'm not the same Hexenbiest I was”, making Renard respond: “You must have fallen harder for Burkhardt than I thought”? She also tells Bonaparte that Nick “was good to me, and he didn't have to be. Don't ask me to betray him”.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - irukandji - 05-04-2019

(05-04-2019, 07:48 AM)N_grimm Wrote: Catherine was portrayed as a villain and Adalind was influenced by her. Exactly what she taught Adalind regarding moral questions is unclear, but it’s probably not what normal people tell their kids. All we really know is that Catherine educated Adalind in spells and potions.

Adalind's attributes and beliefs are not murky ones. She ran the gamut from conspiracy to murder and liked it. It's pretty clear Adalind didn't have much of a moral compass.

(05-03-2019, 10:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: Nick bought the paint factory (probably) for money from the sale of the house - which he owned. He could also have kicked out Juliette back in the days. Of course, Adalind was free to leave the fome at any time. Did you expect Nick to keep her in cage? It’s true that Adalind was depending on Nick initially, but towards the end of season 5, the relationship was put to the test. When Adalind was forced to leave, Nick fought to get her back. And Adalind was given the opportunity to stay at the Mayor’s Mansion, but instead moved back to Nick’s loft. They both made an active choose to be together.

I expect that both Nick and Adalind are free to do as they choose. Adalind got pregnant with Nick's kid. He invited her to stay with him as she had nowhere to go. That is guest status. As far as the series goes, they slept together, but I don't recall the two of them sitting down one day and questioning where their playing house was going.

(05-03-2019, 10:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: Yes, but there is no indication in the storyline that Adalind did not become a good person. She express regret for the evil stuff she did in the past, she is completely loyal to Nick and doesn’t want anything to do with the villains Renard and BC.

Adalind didn't become anything other than Nick's domestic houseguest with benefits. There has to be more to becoming a good person than just being willing to just get along with Nick and the scoobies.

(05-03-2019, 10:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: After the end of season 4/beginning of season 5, there is no indication in the storyline that Adalind only stays with Nick to survive. Adalind was completely loyal to Nick when she had the opportunity to betray him. Renard wanted to sleep with Adalind in season 5, so if she was the manipulative survivor you claim, why did she kick Renard’s ass and declare: “I'm not the same Hexenbiest I was”, making Renard respond: “You must have fallen harder for Burkhardt than I thought”? She also tells Bonaparte that Nick “was good to me, and he didn't have to be. Don't ask me to betray him”.

Yet, there's still the sticky issue of why Adalind went back in the first place. I get that she wants to see her daughter. What I don't get is why even bother making such a statement about betraying Nick to Bonaparte? That is absolute fluff and Bonaparte knew it. All Bonaparte had to do was dangle Diana in front of Adalind, and he not only got her, but baby Kelly as well.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - N_grimm - 05-04-2019

(05-04-2019, 09:10 AM)irukandji Wrote: I expect that both Nick and Adalind are free to do as they choose. Adalind got pregnant with Nick's kid. He invited her to stay with him as she had nowhere to go. That is guest status. As far as the series goes, they slept together, but I don't recall the two of them sitting down one day and questioning where their playing house was going.
Let me refresh your memory:

S6e1
Nick: What is that?
Adalind: An engagement ring for me and Renard. Bonaparte put it there. And not normally. He said if I ever took it off, it would cause great pain to my children. I hate it, but I'm afraid to take it off without knowing how to break the spell. Even if he's dead, it could still survive.
Nick: We'll find a way to break it.
Adalind: I need to be with you.

S6e3
Nick: And Adalind comes with me
Renard: Eh, take her.

s6e4
Adalind: I'm so happy to be back here with you.
Nick: Yeah, me too. I thought I was gonna go crazy without you.

Exactly how does this fit with Adalind being just a guest?

(05-04-2019, 09:10 AM)irukandji Wrote: Yet, there's still the sticky issue of why Adalind went back in the first place. I get that she wants to see her daughter. What I don't get is why even bother making such a statement about betraying Nick to Bonaparte? That is absolute fluff and Bonaparte knew it. All Bonaparte had to do was dangle Diana in front of Adalind, and he not only got her, but baby Kelly as well.

Adalind almost got choked to death for refusing to tell Bonaparte where Nick lived. Adalind taking Kelly was not necessary the smartest move. But it made Diana bond with Kelly, making her more positive to Nick. Adalind thought it was necessary to protect Kelly, but she was in a very difficult situation and time was running out. I can come up with several arguments for and against brining Kelly, so it’s not completely clear. And that does not change that Adalind loved Nick and was completely loyal to him, even when she didn't need to be.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - syscrash - 05-05-2019

Never was it shown that Nick and Adalind where in a relationship. Not once did they ever go on a date or even have dinner together. Not once where they shown to be into each other for any reason other then them having a child together and being willing to make it work.
This compared with Nick and Juliette who where shown not only dating but having a relationship and being together because of their interest in each other.

Remember Adalind at first was there only because of Kelly. Later we saw that Nick began to like her as a person. But never was it shown Nick trying to win Adalind s affections. or Adalind trying to win Nicks affection. At most Adalind and Nick where like Adalind and Sean. Working out a relation that allows them to co parent.

Another big difference is the basses of the Nick and Juliette conflict was his guilt of what happened to her and his feeling responsible. It was such a driving idea that there was a long dialog where Eve relieved him of his feeling of guilt. You also have to consider the writers gave Nick and Juliette / Eve two emotional death scenes. With Nick and Adalind the death scene was during a hectic moment.

The biggest tell I see is. When faced with a threat. Instead of Relaying on Nick , as Juliette and the other have done through out the show. Adalind choose it was safer to be at the mansion. She even erected Sean to protect her. Only to find out he was not in charge.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - brandon - 05-05-2019

the relationship between Nick and Adalind started in another way.Having to deal with other things and I think that over time they would have gone out together without children to have dinner.
they were at the hotel celebrating the birthday of Monroe.


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - irukandji - 05-05-2019

(05-04-2019, 03:48 PM)N_grimm Wrote: Let me refresh your memory:

S6e1
Nick: What is that?
Adalind: An engagement ring for me and Renard. Bonaparte put it there. And not normally. He said if I ever took it off, it would cause great pain to my children. I hate it, but I'm afraid to take it off without knowing how to break the spell. Even if he's dead, it could still survive.
Nick: We'll find a way to break it.
Adalind: I need to be with you.

S6e3
Nick: And Adalind comes with me
Renard: Eh, take her.

s6e4
Adalind: I'm so happy to be back here with you.
Nick: Yeah, me too. I thought I was gonna go crazy without you.

Exactly how does this fit with Adalind being just a guest?

Nice dialogue, but it doesn't come near to clarifying my earlier post.

Adalind "needs to be with Nick" and Nick "thought he was gonna go crazy without Adalind".

Aalind asked Nick to sleep with her because she was frightened. She was a guest in his house at the time. Adalind is still sleeping with Nick, only there's one added benefit. She's screwing him. That one act does not make Adalind "more" in Nick's eyes. Why would it? Grimm has never been one to make sleeping together a special moment.

All Adalind and Nick are is bed buddies with benefits. I can't see how that particular act raises Adalind from guest to important family member when the series itself has never made sleeping together something special. Even the main character himself doesn't consider sex anything special.

(05-04-2019, 09:10 AM)irukandji Wrote: Adalind almost got choked to death for refusing to tell Bonaparte where Nick lived.

She wouldn't have gotten choked at all if she hadn't gone in the first place.

(05-04-2019, 09:10 AM)irukandji Wrote: Adalind taking Kelly was not necessary the smartest move. But it made Diana bond with Kelly, making her more positive to Nick. Adalind thought it was necessary to protect Kelly, but she was in a very difficult situation and time was running out. I can come up with several arguments for and against brining Kelly, so it’s not completely clear. And that does not change that Adalind loved Nick and was completely loyal to him, even when she didn't need to be.

Adalind going to Renard served some purposes:

First, it's a complete slap in the face to Nick. Adalind didn't tell him she was going.

Second, she makes it plain by appearing on television with the mayor to be Renard that she has chosen the winner. So just where is this so called hatred of Renard? I'm sure Nick's death might be troubling to her, but Adalind has made it plain where she wants to be, under the roof of another man's mansion.

Third, Nick had no sayso on whether he wanted to keep Kelly. It's one thing for Adalind to make the decision to go to Diana. She is free to do so. It's another for her to take Kelly and essentially place him in the hands of the enemy.

So she didn't want to tell Bonaparte where Nick lived. What difference would that make to Nick? He sees her on television standing next to another guy who's just won the mayoral election.

(05-05-2019, 07:01 AM)brandon Wrote: the relationship between Nick and Adalind started in another way.Having to deal with other things and I think that over time they would have gone out together without children to have dinner.
they were at the hotel celebrating the birthday of Monroe.

They had time. They had 20 years later, according to the end of the series. Yet there was no indication Nick and Adalind were even together, married, or had other children.

Maybe because Adalind couldn't let go of the hexenbiest?


RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - N_grimm - 05-05-2019

(05-05-2019, 07:28 AM)irukandji Wrote: Nice dialogue, but it doesn't come near to clarifying my earlier post.
Adalind "needs to be with Nick" and Nick "thought he was gonna go crazy without Adalind".

Aalind asked Nick to sleep with her because she was frightened. She was a guest in his house at the time. Adalind is still sleeping with Nick, only there's one added benefit. She's screwing him. That one act does not make Adalind "more" in Nick's eyes. Why would it? Grimm has never been one to make sleeping together a special moment.

All Adalind and Nick are is bed buddies with benefits. I can't see how that particular act raises Adalind from guest to important family member when the series itself has never made sleeping together something special. Even the main character himself doesn't consider sex anything special.

To quote the script from the Grimm-episodes doesn’t clarify when discussing a series based on these scripts? It’s better than pulling things out of thin air.

I guess it was these wicked creators again, hiding away the storyline. Having the hero’s «girlfriend» manipulate him for two seasons, without ever telling him or the audience. I guess Nick considered Adalind just a houseguest. When he told her he loved her, it was a lie. When he shouted to the ghost of his mother and aunt that he wanted Adalind back, it was a lie. When the powerful Hexenbiest Eve told Nick she could “feel” that Nick loved Adalind, she lied. When Adalind told Nick she loved him, she lied. And when Diana told Renard that Adalind loved Nick, Adalind lied to her daughter as well. Right?

(05-04-2019, 09:10 AM)irukandji Wrote: She wouldn't have gotten choked at all if she hadn't gone in the first place.

So, how would Bonaparte have killed her then?
s05e19: Bonaparte: “If she chooses the Grimm, we will have to kill her”.

(05-04-2019, 09:10 AM)irukandji Wrote: Adalind going to Renard served some purposes:
First, it's a complete slap in the face to Nick. Adalind didn't tell him she was going.

Second, she makes it plain by appearing on television with the mayor to be Renard that she has chosen the winner. So just where is this so called hatred of Renard? I'm sure Nick's death might be troubling to her, but Adalind has made it plain where she wants to be, under the roof of another man's mansion.

Third, Nick had no sayso on whether he wanted to keep Kelly. It's one thing for Adalind to make the decision to go to Diana. She is free to do so. It's another for her to take Kelly and essentially place him in the hands of the enemy.

So she didn't want to tell Bonaparte where Nick lived. What difference would that make to Nick? He sees her on television standing next to another guy who's just won the mayoral election.

Adalind was forced to go, because of Diana. Just because she wanted her daughter back, doesn't mean she didn't love Nick or wanted to take Kelly away from him. In fact, it was shown that Adalind was crying and telling Kelly she couldn't take him away from his dad. She was also begging what she thought was Renard (on the phone) for more time. She then left Nick a note, stating that she loved him. Something she repeated to Wu on the phone in the next episode. She then got Diana to help Nick, she then helped bring Renard down and then took both her children and moved back in with Nick. Was that a slap in the face to Nick or Renard?


(05-04-2019, 09:10 AM)irukandji Wrote: They had time. They had 20 years later, according to the end of the series. Yet there was no indication Nick and Adalind were even together, married, or had other children.
Maybe because Adalind couldn't let go of the hexenbiest?

No indication? Well, given that you have gone from blue to purple in the face twisting and denying the Nick-Adalind relationship, this is no surprise. Let me give you the clues anyway: Adalind and Nick say they love each other. Nick killes the devil to get Adalind back. He then removes her ring and declares Adalind, Diana and Kelly are his family. We then get the 20 years later scene, where we learn that Nick and Adalind are waiting for their children, while Kelly is signing the book with Kelly Burkhardt (not Kelly- Shade-Burkhardt). That was enough for the Grimm wiki to put Adalind as Nick’s wife.