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+--- Thread: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? (/Thread-Embracing-the-Hexenbiest-Is-such-a-Thing-possible)
RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - dicappatore - 09-13-2017
(09-13-2017, 03:52 AM)rpmaluki Wrote:(09-13-2017, 03:21 AM)dicappatore Wrote:Technically, he did have ill feelings towards Adalind at the time but he would put them aside. I can't say that Juliette overreacted initially when she thought of telling Nick the truth because that must cross any hexenbiest's mind when they think of a grimm. The problem is what happened after, Juliette not being able to reason that Nick would never hurt her and then projecting her own feelings to justify her actions against him. Nick loved her for years and why would he suddenly put killing her her at the top of his list when the woman he hated the most was still breathing? Adalind was able to calmly work through her fears because she didn't want to lose what she had and that was paltry in comparison to what Juliette had with Nick at the time of their confessions to being a hexenbiest (again in Adalind's case).(09-13-2017, 12:44 AM)rpmaluki Wrote:(09-12-2017, 03:45 PM)irukandji Wrote:Nick is a grimm out of necessity. He doesn't go out of his way to hunt down wesen. He deals with them as they cross his path. Why should being a hexenbiest be any different if they so chose? Hexenette embraced everything about that and ended up exacting violence and mayhem of epic proportions and had to be forcibly dialed back in order to function. That's not the same thing as shying away from being a hexenbiest. Monroe and Rosalee don't walk around in full woge, none of the wesen do. The blutbad and fuchsbau comes out when they deem it necessary because someone is threatening those they love. Whatever embarrassment you're referring to is probably due to her past misdeeds. Both women are wary of what they did when they were at their worst as hexenbiests, Catherine had no compulsion to be good so her "conscience" was clear because she didn't really have any. Her treatment of Adalind upon losing her powers shows how emotionally detached/cold she was to even her own daughter. She was proud of what she was so no need to hesitate, shy away or be embarrassed by being a hexenbiest, especially when it gets her whatever she wants.(09-12-2017, 05:41 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: In the end, they both used their hexenbiest as per necessity.
But is that all it is with hexenbiests? Just necessity? I was thinking that there is a heritage to these witches. Many of them were skilled healers. I didn't care for Catherine, but she seemed to know her stuff when it came to bringing Juliette out of her coma. Adalind seems to deal with her hexenbiest differently. She almost seems embarrassed by it.
Well, this is why I lost all respect for Juliette when she became a Hex. Her battle cry was that a Grimm would kill a Hex on site, if he had the chance. Meanwhile Juliette was a witness to Nick not killing Adalind, Henrietta and Elizabeth.
She was well aware that he had no ill feelings for those women. He was sort of, on guard, in their presence but he was never on the war path. If you go back to the Bee episode. He ended up protecting Adalind, asa Hex, let alone, let the Queen Bee kill her.
Here is another point I forgot to make about, as you stated, “Juliette’s overreacted initially”. The rest of the Wesen world grew up fearing Grimms. To the Wesen children, Grimms were the Boogie-Man. They grew up instilled with all those fears of being decapitated by one, if they ever ran into one.
How many scenes did we see in the series on how shocked most Wesen were when they faced Nick as a Grimm and then were even shocked more, to see him treat them fairly, unless they committed or were committing a crime. Juliette was well aware of this. She knew how fair he was with so many Wesen.
Meanwhile She was only a Hex for a few weeks. She never grew up and was never exposed to fearing Grimms. But, in a few weeks, she was an expert on Grimm behavior and Hexes. She was a witness to how he treated other Wesen, including Hexes. And how he worked with Renard, Monroe, Rosalee and Wu. But somehow, she feared he was going to kill the love of her life. “Overreacted” is an understatement!
RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - brandon - 09-13-2017
you are right.
juliette never grew up with it and then feared. silly.
and then talking as if knew everything.there are people like that
RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - wesen - 09-13-2017
(09-13-2017, 04:07 AM)irukandji Wrote:(09-13-2017, 12:44 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: Whatever embarrassment you're referring to is probably due to her past misdeeds.
No, it's not only misdeeds. In the other thread you wrote how Nick started seeing Adalind as more than just the mother to his son. Well, what exactly is Nick seeing? Just what he wants to see? Shouldn't a big part of what he sees include her hexenbiest heritage? If this is the great and wonderful union that produced a hybrid son, why should Adalind have to shy away? Juliette/Eve gets criticized for embracing the hexenbiest, like it's some form of cancer because she does so whenever she wants. Adalind doesn't embrace it like Eve does, and so all she's praised for is how great she gets along with Nick, like that's all she's good for. Hexenbiests are not entire evil walking amongst the innocent. Adalind shouldn't be have to practice restraint. She should be able to utilize her hexenbiest whenever she so chooses. All I'm saying is it appears she shies away from it because it seems she's in an environment which consists of Nick and the kids, who appear to disapprove of her being a hexenbiest at all.
That's like saying that if Rosalee really loved Monroe, she should accept and encourage him to embrace everything about being a blutbad, including hunting down and eating humans. Nick was able to eventually accept Adalind becoming a hexenbiest again, although it took a bit of time for him to fully trust her. It's not that being able to get along well with Nick was the only thing that Adalind was good for. I just rewatched the series again. Nick and the kids were Adalind's redemption, they became the catalyst for her character to grow and become a better person. The evil Adalind was actually more pathetic than the one Nick had a relationship with. She tolerated being emotionally abused by the people she cared for, and was always in constant danger when she lived with the Royals. The only stable person who grew to accept and love her for who she really was, was Nick. Renard even commented that if he wasn't familiar with her personality, he would be in love with her. That comment must have been really painful to hear, but Adalind just smiled and took it and made some sarcastic remark. Like I said in other threads, I always felt that Adalind's bitchy side was her 'front' to the world, a kind of defence mechanism to hide her true feelings. I was glad to see her acting like a normal person with Nick.
Btw, there were already a few episodes that dealt with this issue about embracing the inner wesen. For each of those episodes the writers always showed that practicing restraint was a good thing, because not doing so would lead to a lot of negative consequences. Angelina chose to fully embrace her blutbad side and see where it got her.
RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - dicappatore - 09-13-2017
(09-13-2017, 05:59 AM)brandon Wrote: you are right.
juliette never grew up with it and then feared. silly.
and then talking as if knew everything.there are people like that
brandon, she reminded me of a flyer I once saw at work before we became politically correct and humorless. The flyer stated;
BRAND NEW
ENCYCLOPIDIA
FOR SALE
HARDLY USED
NO LONGER NEEDED
THE FUCKING WIFE
KNOWS EVERYTHING!
RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - irukandji - 09-13-2017
(09-13-2017, 07:04 AM)wesen Wrote: That's like saying that if Rosalee really loved Monroe, she should accept and encourage him to embrace everything about being a blutbad, including hunting down and eating humans.
No, it's not. And I disagree with your statement. I don't recall Rosalee ever confronting Monroe about eating humans. When she met him, he'd already been a confirmed vegetarian. The only one who ever approached him about it, and in my opinion, unfairly, was Nick.
(09-13-2017, 07:04 AM)wesen Wrote: Nick was able to eventually accept Adalind becoming a hexenbiest again, although it took a bit of time for him to fully trust her. It's not that being able to get along well with Nick was the only thing that Adalind was good for.
Why does Nick have to "accept" Adalind becoming a hexenbiest again? She didn't have to "accept" him becoming a grimm again.
(09-13-2017, 07:04 AM)wesen Wrote: I just rewatched the series again. Nick and the kids were Adalind's redemption, they became the catalyst for her character to grow and become a better person. The evil Adalind was actually more pathetic than the one Nick had a relationship with. She tolerated being emotionally abused by the people she cared for, and was always in constant danger when she lived with the Royals. The only stable person who grew to accept and love her for who she really was, was Nick. Renard even commented that if he wasn't familiar with her personality, he would be in love with her. That comment must have been really painful to hear, but Adalind just smiled and took it and made some sarcastic remark. Like I said in other threads, I always felt that Adalind's bitchy side was her 'front' to the world, a kind of defence mechanism to hide her true feelings. I was glad to see her acting like a normal person with Nick.
If Nick and the kids were a catalyst for Adalind to grow, then they failed because she stagnated around them. But really, what does Adalind being a hexenbiest have to do with any of this? Her bad decisions were based on what she wanted to do, not her hexenbiest heritage.
(09-13-2017, 07:04 AM)wesen Wrote: Btw, there were already a few episodes that dealt with this issue about embracing the inner wesen. For each of those episodes the writers always showed that practicing restraint was a good thing, because not doing so would lead to a lot of negative consequences. Angelina chose to fully embrace her blutbad side and see where it got her.
Adalind didn't practice restraint, Adalind was afraid of being a hexenbiest, mainly due to Nick's reaction.
But here are some questions. Why is it that Adalind should practice restraint from being a hexenbiest? Are you saying that the hexenbiest is basically an evil controller of its host? If that's the case, then why is Juliette blamed for her deeds rather than the hexenbiest spirit?
RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - wesen - 09-13-2017
Quote:No, it's not. And I disagree with your statement. I don't recall Rosalee ever confronting Monroe about eating humans. When she met him, he'd already been a confirmed vegetarian. The only one who ever approached him about it, and in my opinion, unfairly, was Nick.
Yes it is. Adalind and Monroe chose to tamper their wesen natures because they wanted to become better people. They wanted to regain their humanity. In fact, Black Claw was created specifically because the wesen wanted to completely embrace their wesen nature without any regard for humans and their welfare. The show always emphasises that not controlling the wesen side will always lead to negative consequences.
Quote:Why does Nick have to "accept" Adalind becoming a hexenbiest again? She didn't have to "accept" him becoming a grimm again.
The difference is that Adalind, as a hexenbiest, actively tried to destroy Nick because he was a grimm. In contrast, Nick was always in controll of his grimm nature. That's how he was able to befriend wesen, and why he's not considered a traditional grimm. He also never tried to hunt Adalind down and kill her even though he had many opportunities, as well as good reasons, to do so.
Quote:If Nick and the kids were a catalyst for Adalind to grow, then they failed because she stagnated around them. But really, what does Adalind being a hexenbiest have to do with any of this? Her decisions were based on what she wanted to do, not her heritage.
That's your opinion though. How exactly did she stagnate? because she wasn't the same villainous, bitchy, flirty character she once was in prior seasons? We still saw a glimpse of her bitchy persona when she was with Renard. Adalind didn't need to act that way around Nick and her children, because she felt loved and accepted by them. She became warm, loving and was completely loyal to her family, I don't see how exactly she stagnated? I mentioned this because you were asking why Adalind had to shy away from her traditions/heritage in order to be accepted by Nick. It's the same way that Monroe turned away from his heritage as a blutbad. He wanted to embrace his humanity and he didn't want his wesen nature to control him. Adalind didn't want to allow her hexenbiest side to dominate because it only caused her to hurt others around her. That's what happened to Juliette. It's not that Nick or her kids disapproved of her being a hexenbiest, it's because Adalind wanted to embrace her humanity and raise her kids to live in peace with wesen and humans alike.
Quote:Adalind didn't practice restraint, Adalind was afraid of being a hexenbiest, mainly due to Nick's reaction.
Adalind wasn't just afraid of Nick's reaction, she was afraid of turning evil again once she regained her hexenbiest powers. That obviously didn't happen because in the end we know that Adalind was able to control/restrain her hexenbiest and did utilise her powers when she chose. And this is none more apparent than 20 years later, Adalind is now a full fledged active member of team Grimm, helping Nick and their children fight off evil wesen.
Quote:But here's a question. Why is it that Adalind should practice restraint from being a hexenbiest? Are you saying that the hexenbiest is basically an evil controller of its host?
Yes, the hexenbiest nature is shown in Grimm to be quite evil and destructive if allowed to be unrestrained.
Quote: If that's the case, then why is Juliette blamed for her deeds rather than the hexenbiest spirit?
I don't actually fully blame Juliette for all the destructive things that she did as a hexenbiest, even the show writers make it clear that she was not entirely at fault. However, I don't think the hexenbiest spirit had completely taken over when Juliette was given an opportunity to repress her powers. I think that was her last chance to wrestle back control from her dark side. Juliette chose to embrace her inner hexenbiest because, as she told Nick, she liked having that power. Even after she regains her feelings/humanity in season 6, JuliEve still wanted to be a hexenbiest. The only difference was, like Adalind, she was finally able to control it and utilise it whenever she wanted to.
Also, it wasn't the hexenbiest who had a full on freak out and started blaming everyone for turning her into a hexenbiest. That was Juliette, because even prior to turning into a hexenbiest, she was clearly not happy/satisfied with Nick being a grimm. She had already made it clear after Nick had lost his powers that she didn't want him to regain them again. She only reluctantly allowed him to turn back into a grimm for the sake of their friends.
RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - brandon - 09-13-2017
Juliette trying to blame everyone for what happened.
Step from love to hate.
The fear of Juliette for Nick is absurd.
Having that attitude of knowing how a"GRIMM would react to a Hexenbiest".
Never really knew Nick.
RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - Devegs - 09-13-2017
Juliette got angry with everyone later and did blame them for the situation she was in. She might have been mad at herself too for helping Nick become a grimm even though she really didn't want that for him (and their life together). She had stepped up because their friends were in danger but everything went haywire from there. It went from frying pan to fire. She might have felt there was a certain irony there too. She really didn't want him to regain his grimm powers after he lost it but had been the one to help him regain it. If Juliette had hightailed it out of Portland once she realized her relationship and future with Nick was never going to be what she had imagined for them, maybe the scoobies would have found a way to convince Adalind to come back and undue her spell. A good way to convince Adalind and lure her back would have been the promise to reunite her with her daughter.
Adalind did use hex powers once she got them back. She had been worried about her powers returning because she was no longer proud of who she had been and what she had done in the quest to make herself the kind of hexenbiest her mother (and Sean) would have been proud of. She wanted to remain the person she had become after having Kelly and she did remain that way so she had been worried for nothing. Maybe she got tired of the games and all the machinations that had also been at a cost to her. Once the cat was out of the bag about her powers we did see her use her them, even for Nick. However a hexenbiest is what she is, just like Eve/Juiette is also a hexenbiest now. Once Juliette smoked the hat, she became part of the wesen world. Her actions as hexenette was more of a reaction to her disintegrating relationship with Nick and her desire to punish him at the time than the hex controlling her.
RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - irukandji - 09-13-2017
(09-13-2017, 05:14 PM)wesen Wrote: Yes it is. Adalind and Monroe chose to tamper their wesen natures because they wanted to become better people. They wanted to regain their humanity. In fact, Black Claw was created specifically because the wesen wanted to completely embrace their wesen nature without any regard for humans and their welfare. The show always emphasises that not controlling the wesen side will always lead to negative consequences.
No, it's not. You said, "That's like saying that if Rosalee really loved Monroe, she should accept and encourage him to embrace everything about being a blutbad, including hunting down and eating humans." Rosalee never said any such thing to Monroe. I have a feeling that if Monroe was a typical blutbad who went after a human now and then, Rosalee probably wouldn't say a thing about it. She certainly never brought it up while they were together, so apparently it was of little importance to her. However, it was never going to be an issue because he was a reformed vegetarian before he ever met her. As for Monroe, even though he made the choice not to pursue humans for dinner, he still hung around with other blutbads who weren't so noble.
Next, you said Adalind controlled her hexenbiest nature because she wanted to be a better person. Adalind controlled her hexenbiest nature to prove that the suppression potion would work, not because she wanted to be a better person. She wanted the scoobies to trust her. Developing a suppression potion to help Juliette was her way of gaining their trust.
After Adalind moved in with Nick, she feared the hexenbiest would return, because of the control the hexenbiest exerts, (paraphrasing here). But that seemed to be a non issue because she had no problem using it to defend herself. Granted, it was self-defense, but if a person really wants to be a better person and they believe their hexenbiest is the issue, would they revert to the hexenbiest? Or would they try another method to defend themselves?
In the end, though, I think her bigger fear was of Nick. I think she shied away from her hexenbiest heritage because of him.
I wouldn't say the show always emphasizes that not controlling the wesen side will always lead to negative consequences. I thought the show was about Nick's effects on the criminal element. It seemed to me the only time wesen really woged in public was when they saw him.
Going back to Monroe and Rosalee, they didn't woge in front of an audience. They had too much respect for the wesen council. But I don't recall them using a lot of restraint in woging when it came to helping Nick.
RE: Embracing the Hexenbiest-Is such a Thing possible? - brandon - 09-13-2017
To not do "Woge" before human normal, was to protect the community "Wesen". They respected it not because it was a law.
Monroe never mentions ate humans or pig but a grandfather-season 1×02-.