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+--- Thread: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character (/Thread-A-very-interesting-article-that-features-Juliette-s-character)
RE: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character - rpmaluki - 12-18-2017
(12-18-2017, 04:56 AM)irukandji Wrote:Unfortunately for Juliette being transformed into a most hated wesen, predisposed her to being seen as a monster similarly to every human on the show who ever got a glimpse of a wesen (even the harmless ones) for the first time. When Nick saw Adalind woge the first time, he had a similar reaction, the difference is that he was in a relationship with Juliette who, in his mind, shouldn't have had the ability to transform into anything.(12-17-2017, 01:53 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: Blame his DNA and Adalind.
If Nick cannot help but believe Juliette is a monster because of his DNA, that should have been a red flag to him that he shouldn't have been trying to fix her. He can't be objective toward a person he has such an aversion to.
Nick as a Grimm was predisposed to see the worst in the wesen, however Nick continually worked to set aside the prejudices of his nature as bestowed him by his Grimm DNA. He did it with Monroe as he grew to know him and become best friends with and after getting over the shock of a human Juliette suddenly being a wesen, and the worst kind, he would have done it with her too but he didn't have the luxury of time to adjust. Nick got over his prejudices against hexenbiests much slower than he did the others.
The reason it took him so long is Adalind, that hexenbiest (even after the spirit within her died) had wrought so much more havoc in his life than any other particular wesen he'd ever faced. Juliette was not a monster but the woman he loved, he needed time to get over the traumatic transformation. If he could get over it with Adalind who was an actual enemy, surely he would have gotten over it with Juliette, his girlfriend. Nick had accepted that the transformation was permanent. The suppressant was meant to give Juliette a part of her former life back, some normalcy and time for both Nick and Juliette to move forward with their new normal. But she threw that away when she dropped the jar to the floor and embraced the very things that would make her monster in a literal sense and not the physical appearance.
Nick did what he'd always done and that was to fix a problem or fail trying, in this case one he personally felt responsible. To expect less from him is out of character. I've said a million times how the communication line between Nick and Juliette was atrocious since day one and none more apparent than in S4 when Nick was grimmless and finally when Juliette was a hexenbiest. Unfortunately, it's like they were talking over each other and the cracks that occurred beneath the surface over time were left bare by the transformation and they were too deep and wide to repair.
Nick was adamant on not giving up to fix the problem and Juliette had long accepted her fate as much as she hated it and yes, she too felt the hexenbiest was a monster (she taunted Nick about a Grimm being with a hexenbiest, exactly like Renard did when Nick confronted him about Adalind and Kelly). Nick's disdain for hexenbiests spanned three and a half seasons before he saw Juliette transform into one, Nick and Juliette reacted exactly the same but Juliette was weeks ahead of Nick. So giving Nick just a day or two to be cool with something so shocking is ludicrous in my book.
These people live in a world where the physical appearance of wesen is always described as monstrous by non wesen but that didn't always apply to the inward character of those wesen. Just because she looked like a monster, didn't actually make her one. Nick didn't see Juliette as the monster even if the hexenbiest (a spirit) that possessed her was one. Juliette only became a monster when she started down her destructive path against Nick and his friends ending in her "death".
If it suits you to see Nick as forever the bad guy over his shocked actions over those two days or however long it was as an affront towards Juliette, suit yourself. We'll have to agree to disagree.
As @Brandon has said plenty of times Juliette saw her new self as a monster and concluded that's how the others saw her as well even though Nick kept trying to reassure her. She never got over Nick turning his face away even though she'd been pushing his buttons and trying to get him to kiss her hexenbiest corpse like face, something that no other characters was forced to do on the show except when both parties actually wanted it, like Adalind with Renard and Monroe and Rosalee.
RE: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character - brandon - 12-18-2017
My opinion is that it was juliette who looked like a monster so Juliette thought everyone would see her like that.
She was fed up with Nick, she also started to hate him and Nick was a common man,
Nick did not have any kind of mental power to know what was going through the mind of juliette-at the spice shop she blames them-,and juliette believing that Nick could kill her for being a ".HEXENBIEST".that shows that she did not trust him and did not really know him if he thought he could do something like that.
Juliette only read in the books
RE: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character - rpmaluki - 12-18-2017
Yes Juliette's as guilty of being prejudiced against Nick as a Grimm. In expecting him to kill her, she went on the attack first. So every time now Nick countered her actions, it just made her more wild and unhinged. The suppressant was the only proactive thing Nick did and she saw that as an attack on her by all of them.
RE: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character - brandon - 12-18-2017
Good.
I also see her attitude as that of a drunk,that until they recognize themselves as sick they can not help themselves.
in the spice shop she tells them that you can not control- wanted to download his hatred against someone-and Nick arrives and she mocks sarcastically, that they saw her badly.
Then in the cell with Nick and his statement to Rosalee she was "so happy".
Rosalee hope that she spoke and was sincere, that she is angry against them-that if she was going to help her,instead it closed and that made things worse
RE: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character - Hell Rell - 12-18-2017
I think expecting Nick to be totally cool and not recoil from seeing Juliette voge right off the bat is completely unfair. Juliette was the one who was shocked to her core and hid her Hexenbiest from Nick so she should've understood his reaction and gave him time to adjust the same as she needed.
As said above, Nick had an aversion to Juliette at first because of his dealings with Adalind and he thought she was impersonating Juliette again. Giving him one day to do something Juliette hadn't done for weeks and asking him to remain cool while she became more unhinged is way too much to ask.
The Hexenbiest was a different beast compared to other wesen. Remember when Nick told Juliette that her friend was a wesen. Juliette was relieved to hear that she was a Fuchsbau because she only knows positive things about them from knowing Rosalee. Imagine if she had found out her friend was a Hexenbiest. You can tell Juliette was nervous before she heard Nick's answer so I think she would've been on edge if she found out her friend was a Hexenbiest. I do think she would've accepted her in time but those first few moments would've been filled with tension.
RE: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character - syscrash - 12-18-2017
Quote:Yea Fix things, this is what Nick and Company did for 6 seasons. they fixed things. I guess that part of the show was missed.The problem is there was nothing to fix this time. She had already told him she was a hexenbiest and it could not be reversed. Even the so called fix did not fix the problem it only suppressed her abilities. She would have still been a hexenbiest, which at some point would have had to be dealt with.
Quote:I guess you missed the part when Juliette threw Rosalee against the wall before Nick and Hank pulled out their guns. And No, Rosalee did not attack Juliette, she tryed to catch the potion jar. As for the shot? It would have hit Monroe if Hank did not push him away, Juliette never saw Hank move. She was learning to use her new found powers and was focousing on Nick's gun.Rosalee may have not been trying to attack. But she did charge toward her. For what purpose? to save the potion. And what would saving the potion do. Where they planing on giving it to her against her will. Even in your comment you state that throwing Rosalee justified Nick and Hank pulling their guns and threaten to shot her. Plus after seeing Juliette take Hanks gun. What gave Nick the idea that pulling his was a good idea. If he was counting on their feelings for each other to keep her from taking his. The fact that he was threatening to shot her would negate that idea. As for the shot it was a while before Nick pulled the trigger. We just saw she has the power to take the gun. That would take more force then Nick could produce to keep her from making him pull the trigger. In short, if she had wanted Monroe dead, once the gun was pointed Monroes direction she could have made Nick pull the trigger. Instead she just him struggle, and realize she could make him do things and he had not ability to control his actions. Besides had she wanted anyone dead. why not blow there brains out. Why all the dramatics with the gun. Other then to make a point that she was the one in control.
Quote:I guess you also missed the many times he told her, he would never hurt her. He still loved her, and it was his turn to accept her as a Hex the way she accepted him as a Grimm. You also must have missed the heart felt apology Adalind expressed to Nick, did Juliette ever done that? And you also must have missed the part when Eve, blamed Juliette. And I have a bridge to sell, cheap! And I am married to Morgan Fairchild, Yea, thats the ticket!Nick may have said he wanted to learn to accept her. But his actions all the way to the last scene showed he never really accepted her being a hexenbiest. Even as Eve, Nick was constantly hoping to have Juliette back. What Nick never got is that Juliette died long before Trubel shot her. She started to die the moment she did her first woge. She even told Rosalee as much the first visit to the spice shop, when she said she was losing her self. Eve blamed Juliette because there is a big difference between Juliette and the hexenbiest she became. Adalind apologized because she is the same person now that she was in season one. What has changed is her out look. With Juliette like Meisner said she needs to learn to control the rage. A rage that is both physical and mental. A rage that Adalind and other wesen have learned to control. Like henrietta described it , it is a primal urge that she now has access to. We had six season of the writters defining what make someone a wessen and what makes someone human. The common thing all wesen have in common. They are more animal the human, no matter how domesticated or human like that they act. They all hold the rules of nature over the rules of man. Even Rosalee and Monroe will revert to primal solutions when needed. When the do they maintain a primal rationalization. The is made evident by the fact both Monroe and Rosalee can ripe someone throat out with their teeth and feel no advers effect. If how they kill was to be done by a human it would be seen as bazaar or cannibalistic. When wesen do it it is seen as normal. It is perceived no different at throwing a punch. That is the primal difference between humans and wesen. this is the change that Juliette went through that Adalind did not. Adalind was born that way. That is why Adalind saw the need to apologize and Eve sees it as the Juliette in her to be the blame.
Quote:For me, Nick should have reacted differently, but when a person is in a state of shock whatever caused the shock, people are people - they don't know how they will react / respond until it happens. Nick leaving was to my way of thinking, was a huge mistake. She needed to know someone was compassionate, but at the same time, Nick needed someone too, and he had no one - having each other when they are both experiencing a huge-ass shock, are coming at it from their own unique standpoints.The problem with trying to rationalize Nick's reaction. Compare how he and the other responded to Juliette transformation and then compare that to Nick becoming a zombie. There was not one moment that any of them abandoned Nick. There was no walking away tell they learned to deal with it.
As for Nick and Hank pulling their guns based on their training. That is the same argument as I shot him because I feared for my life. Pulling there gun only exasperated the situation. But from the beginning after everything Adalind had done to Juliette, who in their right mind would think that she would take something concocted by Adalind. Why would she not think there would be an even worse side effect.
RE: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character - brandon - 12-18-2017
Nick " zombie" it was not a Wesen. He was under the control mental of another person.
To Juliette what out of his limit it was his own fear, rage and hatred -himself and to the others-
RE: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character - syscrash - 12-18-2017
Quote:Yes that's the scene he is talking about. I don't hold it against Juliette for sleeping with Renard it was in poor tastes sleeping with Nicks boss but she was technically single at the time. I do however think her sleeping with Kenneth straight after the nieghbors deaths and right before Kelly's death in Nicks bed was disgusting as she was basically celebrating their deaths with sex.We knew the neighbors where dead. There was nothing to point to Juliette knowing they where dead. That whole line of thinking assumes that Juliette knew what Kenneth was capable of. It was Adalind who saw the result of Kenneth's wrath. Juliette only saw the softer side of Kenneth. As she said she thought they only wanted Diana. Which washer intent to hurt Adalind by giving away her child. Also remember it was Sean that Kelly told she would die to protect Diana not Juliette. It is a little presumptuous to think Juliette would think that Kelly would not just give up Diana if faced with an overwhelming foe. People keep making Juliette perspective that of the viewer.
RE: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character - brandon - 12-18-2017
Just as she believed that Nick could kill .
Tell me who you are with and I will tell you who you are.
RE: A very interesting article that features Juliette's character - syscrash - 12-18-2017
Quote:I think expecting Nick to be totally cool and not recoil from seeing Juliette voge right off the bat is completely unfair. Juliette was the one who was shocked to her core and hid her Hexenbiest from Nick so she should've understood his reaction and gave him time to adjust the same as she needed.The problem I have with that is Nick had no adverse reaction when Adalind woged in Sean hotel room. His only response was snark about "and you find that attractive". this idea of given time he would have come around. How much time did Juliette take for zombie Nick. She not once left his side. Even after he knocked her across the room. How much time did it take for Juliette when Nick was controled by the Musie. Again she never left his side. Out of six seasons there is not one other wesen that Nick took time to learn to accept except Juliette. Even Adalind after all she had done, knowing she was a hexenbiest. From the time she told him about the child he never abandoned her. My biggest problem with Nick. The night he learned about Juliette he walked out without saying anything. He returns and sleeps on the couch. Even when Juliette give him henretta address he can't look at her. When he get back from Henretta's he tells Juliette he will work on learning to accept her. Accept what he was fine with her till he learned she had changed. Juliette dwoging in his face was to show, Nick would never be ok with her being a hexenbiest. This was proven by his actions all the way to the end. He constantly keep trying to see Eve as Juliette instead of the hexenbiest she was. In his conversation with Eve it was he had affection for Juliette not the hexenbiest Eve. This shows time did not change anything. If time was the issue he would have had the same feeling for Eve that he had for Juliette. Instead he only had regret that Eve was not Juliette. Eve was the bigger person and tried to relieve him of his guilt by telling him that she had moved on.
As said above, Nick had an aversion to Juliette at first because of his dealings with Adalind and he thought she was impersonating Juliette again. Giving him one day to do something Juliette hadn't done for weeks and asking him to remain cool while she became more unhinged is way too much to ask.
Her speech when she woged in his face is exactly what he did, to not be able to accept her as a hexenbiest.