(07-18-2015, 08:15 PM)izzy Wrote:

(07-18-2015, 05:55 AM)New Guy Wrote:

(07-18-2015, 12:13 AM)izzy Wrote: I just don't see Renard as bad as you are painting him. I think via Monroe, who I think we all agree is a "good guy", we learned the Aunt Marie had less than a sterling reputation. Even on her death bed she was cantankerous and belligerent toward Monroe who was there to assist, demonstrating she labeled people based on stereotypes and made no allowance for the good of an individual, i.e she was about as racist as they come.

I think for Sean to try and get Aunt Marie offed might have been an intelligent reflex action. She did not appear known for her calm demeanor and deliberative skills. Think of it Aunt Marie arrives in Portland and you are wesen, what are you going to think, she is there for a social event?

And as I mentioned in another thread, Renard clearly has his underlings respect, and that is respect given by men and women who every day put their lives on the line based in large part on their ability to assess character. So I would find it a bit incredulous if they were that wrong. In the past I have posted information about some infamous law enforcement characters, I can tell you their juniors knew they had earned less than sterling reputations. Power and politics kept them in office not respect. Renard has the respect of his juniors.

And on the Renard - Juliette thing. It may be a generational thing but the guy code of my day pretty much states a friend twice removed as Renard is to Nick is allowed to poke your girl if she offers it up to him. You are still allowed to be ticked and punch him in the mouth, but men will be men and he is not in the circle of best friends with you, so she is fair game. Also, once again, we have never been privy much to the past of any characters but Monroe and Rosalee. For all we know,prior to Nick, Juliette had a lot of notches on her bed post and I have made the case a couple of times that it is logical to conclude she was slumming when she decided to start seeing Nick. So to a guy who reads women, Juliette may have been considered pretty easy. "We" don't know, because her past was never explored. In the end, Juliette ending in a strong, virile, authoritative man's bed may be very old news.

Anyways on all these points we differ, but, that diversity of opinion is the spice of life.

Hello Izzy,

I appreciate, but disagree with your comments.

The Oregon State Police Code of Ethical Conduct includes:

“The Superintendent acknowledges that the citizens of the State of Oregon rightfully expect and demand that the Oregon State Police epitomize the highest ideals of ethical and professional conduct. As an employee, I subscribe to and adopt the ideals set forth in the Code of Ethical Conduct.

As a peace officer, I am the image of penal law and its warden. If I am to be esteemed and the law I typify respected, I must know my authority well and use it wisely. I shall neither exceed nor abuse it.

During my private and public life, I shall conduct myself with the highest degree of integrity and honesty. I shall at all times conduct myself in a manner which consistently maintains the public trust.”

…

I expect PPD has a similar code of conduct. Renard, Nick, Hank and Wu have all violated ethical precepts. Marie came to Portland to pass along the family heritage to her nephew and then die in peace. Renard calling for the murder of Marie just to manipulate Nick cannot be tolerated even under the Code of Grimm. The writers say Nick will get revenge, so in October we will learn what that means.

…

Nick and Juliette were living together. He had proposed marriage to Juliette. He was emotionally “married” to her and they owed each other complete fidelity. Strong societies are built on marriages where the husband and wife are trustworthy and loyal to each other.

In a 2013 Gallup Poll that listed behaviors and societal realities that included porn, gambling, abortion, polygamy, and the death penalty, 91 percent of survey respondents flagged adultery as morally reprehensible. It drew a higher rate of disapproval than any issue on the survey. Instinctively, we sense that lying to and betraying the one person we’ve sworn fealty to is far worse than simply divorcing that person. Condemnation of divorce has decreased since 2001, but disapproval of adultery has held steady.

Renard was fully aware of Nick and Juliette’s committed relationship. I side with the 91% that the hate sex Renard and Juliette had was reprehensible. They both betrayed Nick. Renard is not in the circle of Nick’s friends. Renard is Nick’s captain and has a duty to help each of his officers maintain domestic tranquility. Renard’s fornication with Juliette was beyond betrayal. It was a heinous dereliction of duty. Juliette ended up dead. When Nick has revelation of what they did, Renard will pay a price. In the real world, the cuckold Nick would resign from PPD and recover. But this is Grimm and Nick is out for revenge.

I agree with your spice of life comment. I expect Grimm season 5 to be quite spicey!

New Guy

As an FYI, I read your comments carefully, gave them consideration and are not swayed by them in the slightest. I did consider them, but I really don't find Renard nailing the skanky version (or maybe the true version) of Juliette egregious. If he turned her down she would have gone down to the bar down the street, because it is fairly clear she was doing this to hurt Nick. A woman can sex any time she wants. Juliette was whoring around to spite Nick or because she was a horn dog. As I said we don;t know Juliette's background. She could have been a med/vet school geek and a 32 year old virgin when she met Nick for all I know, or she could have been a uniform groupie and passed around by half the police and fire departments. We don't know. So it is all conjecture. But Renard did what he did, as i said maybe half the force had already banged Juliette for all we know. I certainly am not going to judge the guy to harshly without knowing the background and motivations. All we were privy to was that the deed was done. For all we know if a hexenbeist vogues and they do not have sex they may die. The point being we were given just glimpses o fa storyline, we did not see the or get the real story, just an edited version.

(07-19-2015, 04:07 AM)New Guy Wrote: Renard should also pay for his sins. He could repent and beg Nick to forgive him, but I do not see him as an honorable man.
New Guy

(07-19-2015, 05:24 AM)izzy Wrote:

(07-19-2015, 04:07 AM)New Guy Wrote: Renard should also pay for his sins. He could repent and beg Nick to forgive him, but I do not see him as an honorable man.
New Guy

Well I certainly hope I did not paint Renard as honorable. Sheathing your sword in your buddy's personal scabbard is never an honorable action, it may be understandable, but not commendable. But there are various forms of honor and it tends to be defined by the individual, for example, as you outlined.

I must say, I do hope he confesses to Nick and ask for his forgiveness also.

Kindest regards,

Izod

(07-19-2015, 11:59 PM)Matteus Wrote: I feel like Renard is being painted as one of the most evillest characters in this show in this post subject. Yes he is devious and cunning and wrong to become intimate with Juliette, knowing Juliette she would have probably killed him if he said no. Nevertheless he has helped nick with certain cases and has a sense of understanding about him, Renard has greater enemies than Nick and I think Nick has greater enemies than Renard right now. I feel like in the future something may blow up between them, especially considering Adalind seemingly has a child with Renard and now with Nick.

(07-17-2015, 08:59 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:

(07-16-2015, 05:40 PM)New Guy Wrote: Renard, Revelation and Revenge

Hi Grimm Fans:

There has been much speculation about Nick’s “friendship” with Captain Sean Renard. Others believe Renard will be a mentor to Nick and the team. With “friends” like Renard, Nick doesn’t need enemies. Renard could mentor Nick how to be a self-serving, dishonest, ruthless criminal, but is that what Nick should become?

In the “Headache” episode, Nick, Hank and Wu seem to enjoy unloading a barrage of (rubber) bullets into Renard. Renard has betrayed them all; even endangering their lives if it would aid his schemes.

Renard’s rap sheet is extensive:

In 1.1, right out of the gate, Renard sent Adalind Schade to the hospital to kill Marie Kessler. Marie (a skilled Grimm) was Nick’s Aunt who raised him.

In 2.13, Renard stole a key from Nick’s desk in the PPD office.

He let Adalind cook up a hate sex relationship for him and Juliette. Nick was about to take care of business in the 2.13 “Face Off,” but Renard weasels out by returning the key.

In 4.17 “Hibernaculum” Renard could have told Juliette he was loyal to Nick and help her see Nick’s love for her. Instead, he joins her in some hate sex after Juliette promises “this will hurt.”

As JSGrimm45 noted, “Renard once asked Nick if he trusted him and Nick said about as much as you trust me.” Renard is a Royal, a viperous one that cannot be trusted.

The writers have indicated that season 5 will have Nick get his revenge. They are not specific about who, when, where or how Nick will get revenge. We do know that Kenneth murdered Kelly and fornicated with Juliette. Nick’s revenge for Kenneth came at an abandoned warehouse outside Portland. Nick and Kenneth meet face to face. Nick at first tries to question Kenneth, but when he's only met with taunts about his mother and Juliette, he turns to a more physical method of persuasion. As Wu and Hank listen along outside, Nick and Kenneth trade blows. In the end, Kenneth is no match for a vengeful Nick, who slides a blade from one of his Grimm weapons into Kenneth's throat and proclaims, "For my mother."

We know that Renard attempted to murder Marie and fornicated with Juliette. He has never shown any remorse to Nick any of his vile acts.

So Grimm fans, where, when and how will Nick implement revenge upon Renard?

New Guy

Again a different way to look at Renard Nick relationship. I hadn't thought about Nick and Renard having any problems. It look to me that they were working together very well now I'll have to change and rethink this.

My question back to you will the writers put this in or will they drop it so as only the fans know this? If they put it in how would you see it going would see Nick getting revenge or would you see it as Nick doesn't need any more problems?

(07-17-2015, 08:59 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:

(07-16-2015, 05:40 PM)New Guy Wrote: Renard, Revelation and Revenge

Hi Grimm Fans:

There has been much speculation about Nick’s “friendship” with Captain Sean Renard. Others believe Renard will be a mentor to Nick and the team. With “friends” like Renard, Nick doesn’t need enemies. Renard could mentor Nick how to be a self-serving, dishonest, ruthless criminal, but is that what Nick should become?

In the “Headache” episode, Nick, Hank and Wu seem to enjoy unloading a barrage of (rubber) bullets into Renard. Renard has betrayed them all; even endangering their lives if it would aid his schemes.

Renard’s rap sheet is extensive:

In 1.1, right out of the gate, Renard sent Adalind Schade to the hospital to kill Marie Kessler. Marie (a skilled Grimm) was Nick’s Aunt who raised him.

In 2.13, Renard stole a key from Nick’s desk in the PPD office.

He let Adalind cook up a hate sex relationship for him and Juliette. Nick was about to take care of business in the 2.13 “Face Off,” but Renard weasels out by returning the key.

In 4.17 “Hibernaculum” Renard could have told Juliette he was loyal to Nick and help her see Nick’s love for her. Instead, he joins her in some hate sex after Juliette promises “this will hurt.”

As JSGrimm45 noted, “Renard once asked Nick if he trusted him and Nick said about as much as you trust me.” Renard is a Royal, a viperous one that cannot be trusted.

The writers have indicated that season 5 will have Nick get his revenge. They are not specific about who, when, where or how Nick will get revenge. We do know that Kenneth murdered Kelly and fornicated with Juliette. Nick’s revenge for Kenneth came at an abandoned warehouse outside Portland. Nick and Kenneth meet face to face. Nick at first tries to question Kenneth, but when he's only met with taunts about his mother and Juliette, he turns to a more physical method of persuasion. As Wu and Hank listen along outside, Nick and Kenneth trade blows. In the end, Kenneth is no match for a vengeful Nick, who slides a blade from one of his Grimm weapons into Kenneth's throat and proclaims, "For my mother."

We know that Renard attempted to murder Marie and fornicated with Juliette. He has never shown any remorse to Nick any of his vile acts.

So Grimm fans, where, when and how will Nick implement revenge upon Renard?

New Guy

Again a different way to look at Renard Nick relationship. I hadn't thought about Nick and Renard having any problems. It look to me that they were working together very well now I'll have to change and rethink this.

My question back to you will the writers put this in or will they drop it so as only the fans know this? If they put it in how would you see it going would see Nick getting revenge or would you see it as Nick doesn't need any more problems?

(07-17-2015, 08:59 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:

(07-16-2015, 05:40 PM)New Guy Wrote: Renard, Revelation and Revenge

Hi Grimm Fans:

There has been much speculation about Nick’s “friendship” with Captain Sean Renard. Others believe Renard will be a mentor to Nick and the team. With “friends” like Renard, Nick doesn’t need enemies. Renard could mentor Nick how to be a self-serving, dishonest, ruthless criminal, but is that what Nick should become?

In the “Headache” episode, Nick, Hank and Wu seem to enjoy unloading a barrage of (rubber) bullets into Renard. Renard has betrayed them all; even endangering their lives if it would aid his schemes.

Renard’s rap sheet is extensive:

In 1.1, right out of the gate, Renard sent Adalind Schade to the hospital to kill Marie Kessler. Marie (a skilled Grimm) was Nick’s Aunt who raised him.

In 2.13, Renard stole a key from Nick’s desk in the PPD office.

He let Adalind cook up a hate sex relationship for him and Juliette. Nick was about to take care of business in the 2.13 “Face Off,” but Renard weasels out by returning the key.

In 4.17 “Hibernaculum” Renard could have told Juliette he was loyal to Nick and help her see Nick’s love for her. Instead, he joins her in some hate sex after Juliette promises “this will hurt.”

As JSGrimm45 noted, “Renard once asked Nick if he trusted him and Nick said about as much as you trust me.” Renard is a Royal, a viperous one that cannot be trusted.

The writers have indicated that season 5 will have Nick get his revenge. They are not specific about who, when, where or how Nick will get revenge. We do know that Kenneth murdered Kelly and fornicated with Juliette. Nick’s revenge for Kenneth came at an abandoned warehouse outside Portland. Nick and Kenneth meet face to face. Nick at first tries to question Kenneth, but when he's only met with taunts about his mother and Juliette, he turns to a more physical method of persuasion. As Wu and Hank listen along outside, Nick and Kenneth trade blows. In the end, Kenneth is no match for a vengeful Nick, who slides a blade from one of his Grimm weapons into Kenneth's throat and proclaims, "For my mother."

We know that Renard attempted to murder Marie and fornicated with Juliette. He has never shown any remorse to Nick any of his vile acts.

So Grimm fans, where, when and how will Nick implement revenge upon Renard?

New Guy

Again a different way to look at Renard Nick relationship. I hadn't thought about Nick and Renard having any problems. It look to me that they were working together very well now I'll have to change and rethink this.

My question back to you will the writers put this in or will they drop it so as only the fans know this? If they put it in how would you see it going would see Nick getting revenge or would you see it as Nick doesn't need any more problems?

(07-22-2015, 04:40 PM)Kathryn Wooten Wrote:

(07-17-2015, 08:59 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:

(07-16-2015, 05:40 PM)New Guy Wrote: Renard, Revelation and Revenge

Hi Grimm Fans:

There has been much speculation about Nick’s “friendship” with Captain Sean Renard. Others believe Renard will be a mentor to Nick and the team. With “friends” like Renard, Nick doesn’t need enemies. Renard could mentor Nick how to be a self-serving, dishonest, ruthless criminal, but is that what Nick should become?

In the “Headache” episode, Nick, Hank and Wu seem to enjoy unloading a barrage of (rubber) bullets into Renard. Renard has betrayed them all; even endangering their lives if it would aid his schemes.

Renard’s rap sheet is extensive:

In 1.1, right out of the gate, Renard sent Adalind Schade to the hospital to kill Marie Kessler. Marie (a skilled Grimm) was Nick’s Aunt who raised him.

In 2.13, Renard stole a key from Nick’s desk in the PPD office.

He let Adalind cook up a hate sex relationship for him and Juliette. Nick was about to take care of business in the 2.13 “Face Off,” but Renard weasels out by returning the key.

In 4.17 “Hibernaculum” Renard could have told Juliette he was loyal to Nick and help her see Nick’s love for her. Instead, he joins her in some hate sex after Juliette promises “this will hurt.”

As JSGrimm45 noted, “Renard once asked Nick if he trusted him and Nick said about as much as you trust me.” Renard is a Royal, a viperous one that cannot be trusted.

The writers have indicated that season 5 will have Nick get his revenge. They are not specific about who, when, where or how Nick will get revenge. We do know that Kenneth murdered Kelly and fornicated with Juliette. Nick’s revenge for Kenneth came at an abandoned warehouse outside Portland. Nick and Kenneth meet face to face. Nick at first tries to question Kenneth, but when he's only met with taunts about his mother and Juliette, he turns to a more physical method of persuasion. As Wu and Hank listen along outside, Nick and Kenneth trade blows. In the end, Kenneth is no match for a vengeful Nick, who slides a blade from one of his Grimm weapons into Kenneth's throat and proclaims, "For my mother."

We know that Renard attempted to murder Marie and fornicated with Juliette. He has never shown any remorse to Nick any of his vile acts.

So Grimm fans, where, when and how will Nick implement revenge upon Renard?

New Guy

Again a different way to look at Renard Nick relationship. I hadn't thought about Nick and Renard having any problems. It look to me that they were working together very well now I'll have to change and rethink this.

My question back to you will the writers put this in or will they drop it so as only the fans know this? If they put it in how would you see it going would see Nick getting revenge or would you see it as Nick doesn't need any more problems?

There will not be revenge if Julette dies the secret of the pain sex dies with her..congrats on becoming a royal

---

(07-17-2015, 08:59 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:

(07-16-2015, 05:40 PM)New Guy Wrote: Renard, Revelation and Revenge

Hi Grimm Fans:

There has been much speculation about Nick’s “friendship” with Captain Sean Renard. Others believe Renard will be a mentor to Nick and the team. With “friends” like Renard, Nick doesn’t need enemies. Renard could mentor Nick how to be a self-serving, dishonest, ruthless criminal, but is that what Nick should become?

In the “Headache” episode, Nick, Hank and Wu seem to enjoy unloading a barrage of (rubber) bullets into Renard. Renard has betrayed them all; even endangering their lives if it would aid his schemes.

Renard’s rap sheet is extensive:

In 1.1, right out of the gate, Renard sent Adalind Schade to the hospital to kill Marie Kessler. Marie (a skilled Grimm) was Nick’s Aunt who raised him.

In 2.13, Renard stole a key from Nick’s desk in the PPD office.

He let Adalind cook up a hate sex relationship for him and Juliette. Nick was about to take care of business in the 2.13 “Face Off,” but Renard weasels out by returning the key.

In 4.17 “Hibernaculum” Renard could have told Juliette he was loyal to Nick and help her see Nick’s love for her. Instead, he joins her in some hate sex after Juliette promises “this will hurt.”

As JSGrimm45 noted, “Renard once asked Nick if he trusted him and Nick said about as much as you trust me.” Renard is a Royal, a viperous one that cannot be trusted.

The writers have indicated that season 5 will have Nick get his revenge. They are not specific about who, when, where or how Nick will get revenge. We do know that Kenneth murdered Kelly and fornicated with Juliette. Nick’s revenge for Kenneth came at an abandoned warehouse outside Portland. Nick and Kenneth meet face to face. Nick at first tries to question Kenneth, but when he's only met with taunts about his mother and Juliette, he turns to a more physical method of persuasion. As Wu and Hank listen along outside, Nick and Kenneth trade blows. In the end, Kenneth is no match for a vengeful Nick, who slides a blade from one of his Grimm weapons into Kenneth's throat and proclaims, "For my mother."

We know that Renard attempted to murder Marie and fornicated with Juliette. He has never shown any remorse to Nick any of his vile acts.

So Grimm fans, where, when and how will Nick implement revenge upon Renard?

New Guy

Again a different way to look at Renard Nick relationship. I hadn't thought about Nick and Renard having any problems. It look to me that they were working together very well now I'll have to change and rethink this.

My question back to you will the writers put this in or will they drop it so as only the fans know this? If they put it in how would you see it going would see Nick getting revenge or would you see it as Nick doesn't need any more problems?

There will not be revenge if Julette dies the secret of the pain sex dies with her..congrats on becoming a royal

---

(07-17-2015, 08:59 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:

(07-16-2015, 05:40 PM)New Guy Wrote: Renard, Revelation and Revenge

Hi Grimm Fans:

There has been much speculation about Nick’s “friendship” with Captain Sean Renard. Others believe Renard will be a mentor to Nick and the team. With “friends” like Renard, Nick doesn’t need enemies. Renard could mentor Nick how to be a self-serving, dishonest, ruthless criminal, but is that what Nick should become?

In the “Headache” episode, Nick, Hank and Wu seem to enjoy unloading a barrage of (rubber) bullets into Renard. Renard has betrayed them all; even endangering their lives if it would aid his schemes.

Renard’s rap sheet is extensive:

In 1.1, right out of the gate, Renard sent Adalind Schade to the hospital to kill Marie Kessler. Marie (a skilled Grimm) was Nick’s Aunt who raised him.

In 2.13, Renard stole a key from Nick’s desk in the PPD office.

He let Adalind cook up a hate sex relationship for him and Juliette. Nick was about to take care of business in the 2.13 “Face Off,” but Renard weasels out by returning the key.

In 4.17 “Hibernaculum” Renard could have told Juliette he was loyal to Nick and help her see Nick’s love for her. Instead, he joins her in some hate sex after Juliette promises “this will hurt.”

As JSGrimm45 noted, “Renard once asked Nick if he trusted him and Nick said about as much as you trust me.” Renard is a Royal, a viperous one that cannot be trusted.

The writers have indicated that season 5 will have Nick get his revenge. They are not specific about who, when, where or how Nick will get revenge. We do know that Kenneth murdered Kelly and fornicated with Juliette. Nick’s revenge for Kenneth came at an abandoned warehouse outside Portland. Nick and Kenneth meet face to face. Nick at first tries to question Kenneth, but when he's only met with taunts about his mother and Juliette, he turns to a more physical method of persuasion. As Wu and Hank listen along outside, Nick and Kenneth trade blows. In the end, Kenneth is no match for a vengeful Nick, who slides a blade from one of his Grimm weapons into Kenneth's throat and proclaims, "For my mother."

We know that Renard attempted to murder Marie and fornicated with Juliette. He has never shown any remorse to Nick any of his vile acts.

So Grimm fans, where, when and how will Nick implement revenge upon Renard?

New Guy

Again a different way to look at Renard Nick relationship. I hadn't thought about Nick and Renard having any problems. It look to me that they were working together very well now I'll have to change and rethink this.

My question back to you will the writers put this in or will they drop it so as only the fans know this? If they put it in how would you see it going would see Nick getting revenge or would you see it as Nick doesn't need any more problems?

There will not be revenge if Julette dies the secret of the pain sex dies with her..congrats on becoming a royal

(08-01-2015, 04:08 PM)New Guy Wrote: Hello Grimmsters,

I saw this today at:
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/grimm.s5.back.to.basics.nick.starts.to.change/60442.htm

"Nick will be hell-bent on taking revenge when "Grimm" season 5 starts. With his mother now gone and his girlfriend killed in front of him, the detective's vendetta will be the theme for the new season, and according to Master Herald, there's only one person who can be at the receiving end of his wrath.

The only royal left for Nick to punish is Captain Sean Renard (Sasha Roiz) and the site says that he will be after him when the show returns. This is because the royals are responsible for making a murderer out of Juliette, which led to the gruesome death of his mother."

I hope Renard is the focal point of Nick's "vendetta." Renard has responsibility for all of the tragic events Nick has suffered. Time for payback!

New Guy