+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: Magic Spells and Potions (/Thread-Magic-Spells-and-Potions)
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - irukandji - 01-25-2016
(01-25-2016, 09:55 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:(01-24-2016, 07:59 PM)irukandji Wrote:Wouldn't we then have to assume that the hexen spirit has knowledge as two but equal persons living in the same body? If that were the case wouldn't Adalind know what the hexen spirit of Frau Pech knew? This will required so thinking. I agree that once a hexen spirit has been killed by Grimm blood the body is now immune to Grimm blood.(01-24-2016, 07:15 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:(01-24-2016, 01:53 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:(01-24-2016, 12:16 PM)irukandji Wrote: If there were two hexenbiest spirits that came out of Adalind when she took the suppression potion, then I would say one of them belonged to Kelly. If that's the case, then the spirit must be something that occurs in the baby before it's born. So bonding would be a natural thing I would think.That is really the $64,000 dollar (old tv show) question. Guess we are to believe that the Grimm blood is not a problem taking another hexen spirit, only the first spirit. Like blood types I'm the universal donor but I can only have my blood type, meaning a Grimm's blood is only effective on one hexen at a time. So Nick's blood could have kill Frau Pech hexen if it was still in her body but not going into another body. Meaning I have no idea.
Here's another question I've been thinking about. Viktor tells Adalind that she has the blood of a Grimm in her. Why do yout think Frau Pech's hexenbiest spirit be attracted to Adalind then? It seems it would detect the Grimm blood within her and be repelled.
I am just thinking loud here since I am reading this rich debate for a while.
It was being said then Nick couldn't kill Adelaind hexanbiest anymore because Adelaind already had a grimm blood in her. The same was said about Juliette. Nick couldn't make her return to normal because Nick's blood wouldn't work to kill the hexan-spirit in Juliette.
Maybe Frau Pech's hexenbiest spirit sensed the grimm blood in Adelaind and knew Adelaind was imune from grimm blood. This is an advantage ... isn't it?
I think the question is why once "infected" by grimm blood an hexanbiest is imune about this blood? Does grimm blood work as some kind of virus against the hexanbieste spirit?
I was wondering if maybe Frau Pech's hexenbiest spirit was either naturally immune to Grimm blood or if Frau Pech developed some kind of potion to protect her own hexenbiest spirit from Grimm blood. She's a woman of the old world and I'm thinking she would have a broader knowledge base than her American counterparts. She might have even had the knowledge to cure Juliette's hexenbiest problem.
Are you asking in relation to my thoughts or Adriano's?
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - jsgrimm45 - 01-25-2016
(01-25-2016, 09:57 AM)irukandji Wrote:Both your idea on Frau Pech and Adriano idea on Grimm blood. His idea is straightforward and I can see it yours takes some thinking and looking at the hexen spirit in it's past present episodes, to see if the two could be two different persons in a sense.(01-25-2016, 09:55 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:(01-24-2016, 07:59 PM)irukandji Wrote:Wouldn't we then have to assume that the hexen spirit has knowledge as two but equal persons living in the same body? If that were the case wouldn't Adalind know what the hexen spirit of Frau Pech knew? This will required so thinking. I agree that once a hexen spirit has been killed by Grimm blood the body is now immune to Grimm blood.(01-24-2016, 07:15 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:(01-24-2016, 01:53 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: That is really the $64,000 dollar (old tv show) question. Guess we are to believe that the Grimm blood is not a problem taking another hexen spirit, only the first spirit. Like blood types I'm the universal donor but I can only have my blood type, meaning a Grimm's blood is only effective on one hexen at a time. So Nick's blood could have kill Frau Pech hexen if it was still in her body but not going into another body. Meaning I have no idea.
I am just thinking loud here since I am reading this rich debate for a while.
It was being said then Nick couldn't kill Adelaind hexanbiest anymore because Adelaind already had a grimm blood in her. The same was said about Juliette. Nick couldn't make her return to normal because Nick's blood wouldn't work to kill the hexan-spirit in Juliette.
Maybe Frau Pech's hexenbiest spirit sensed the grimm blood in Adelaind and knew Adelaind was imune from grimm blood. This is an advantage ... isn't it?
I think the question is why once "infected" by grimm blood an hexanbiest is imune about this blood? Does grimm blood work as some kind of virus against the hexanbieste spirit?
I was wondering if maybe Frau Pech's hexenbiest spirit was either naturally immune to Grimm blood or if Frau Pech developed some kind of potion to protect her own hexenbiest spirit from Grimm blood. She's a woman of the old world and I'm thinking she would have a broader knowledge base than her American counterparts. She might have even had the knowledge to cure Juliette's hexenbiest problem.
Are you asking in relation to my thoughts or Adriano's?
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - irukandji - 01-25-2016
(01-25-2016, 10:04 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Both your idea on Frau Pech and Adriano idea on Grimm blood. His idea is straightforward and I can see it yours takes some thinking and looking at the hexen spirit in it's past present episodes, to see if the two could be two different persons in a sense.
Okay, js, I'm not sure what I wrote that made you think there might be two different persons? Can you elaborate? Sorry, I'm not understanding what you're looking for.
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - jsgrimm45 - 01-25-2016
(01-25-2016, 10:10 AM)irukandji Wrote:Your point on Frau Pech might know something not known it the "new world" is interesting. She was older and Frau Pech may have known things correct, I'm thinking if Frau Pech knew how to treat Juliette did the hexen part of her know or only the human part. So when Adalind took her hexen spirit did she also take some knowledge or just the spirit which only does the bidding of the human. Something to think about. Point is how much does a hexen spirit know should we think of a hexenbiest being two people or one person with power of the hexen spirit. These wesen have not be explained as well as say Blutbad a blutbad can't be separated from it's body. They are in a different grouping as I see it the only true 2 separate entities or are they?(01-25-2016, 10:04 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Both your idea on Frau Pech and Adriano idea on Grimm blood. His idea is straightforward and I can see it yours takes some thinking and looking at the hexen spirit in it's past present episodes, to see if the two could be two different persons in a sense.
Okay, js, I'm not sure what I wrote that made you think there might be two different persons? Can you elaborate? Sorry, I'm not understanding what you're looking for.
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - New Guy - 01-25-2016
Hi JS,
You have proposed:
Quote: Point is how much does a hexen spirit know should we think of a hexenbiest being two people or one person with power of the hexen spirit.I am in the "one person" camp. Every person faces choices. Every person is responsible for his/her choices and actions. I believe all of the Wesen we have seen in Grimm can un-woge as a human. While woged they retain their human persona. Recall Monroe did a woge and said "it is still me."
Juliette is one person. Juliette as the hexenbiest is still Juliette. Juliette as Eve is still Juliette. Juliette is responsible for everything said and done by Juliette, Hexenette and Eve. There is no way for Juliette/Hexenette/Eve to escape her guilt for what she has done. Every time she appears in a scene she shall be the betrayer, arsonist, violent felon we (most viewers) have grown to despise. To set aside her guilt without proper consequence will offend many of us. I am anxious to see the "confrontation."
Quote:Greenwalt also confirmed that there would be a crucial scene in "Eve of Destruction" that focuses on Eve and Nick confronting each other.If you are in the court to hear about how the hit and run driver who recently ran over your child and killed her will plead his case and the defendant (a multiple DUI person) says "Judge I was drunk" (under a spell) will you accept a not guilty verdict? Even more on point would "Judge my hexenbiest spirit made me do it" make you accept a not guilty verdict? How about, "Judge that was my old self Jack driving. I have become Ed and Jack is dead to me."
There is nothing Eve (aka, Juliette) can say to Nick or do for him to eliminate her guilt.
New Guy
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - syscrash - 01-25-2016
Eve will not try and convince Nick of anything. Second no character on the show has been held responsible for anything they have done. Adalind is living with Nick. Sean is everyone's friend. Why would you think Juliette would be expected to carry the cross of guilt.
The talk will explain how HW intervened and her recovery. Hoping for some explanation on how Eve came to be won't happen. The transformation was self imposed acceptance. All HW did was give her a future. It is this future that will be discussed. There will be no going over the past events. The show never goes backward. That is why the comment of Adalind being Nick's first seemed weird. We never see past events being discussed.
I do agree on one thing. The haters will be seeing red about Eve. There will be a lot of post the keep using Juliette events in discussion's about Eve. There are a group of viewers what will never be able to separate the two. Like Nick they just won't be able to let it go.
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - irukandji - 01-25-2016
(01-25-2016, 10:24 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Your point on Frau Pech might know something not known it the "new world" is interesting. She was older and Frau Pech may have known things correct, I'm thinking if Frau Pech knew how to treat Juliette did the hexen part of her know or only the human part. So when Adalind took her hexen spirit did she also take some knowledge or just the spirit which only does the bidding of the human. Something to think about. Point is how much does a hexen spirit know should we think of a hexenbiest being two people or one person with power of the hexen spirit. These wesen have not be explained as well as say Blutbad a blutbad can't be separated from it's body. They are in a different grouping as I see it the only true 2 separate entities or are they?
This is a fascinating question, js! I would think that the hexenbiest spirit is not actually a person per se, or even has the characteristics of a person (i.e. a thinking mind). I do think they can make choices, after all Frau Pech's chose Adalind, so there must be some thought processes that our alien to the human one. For example, I might compare this to a ghost. How does a ghost think? Who knows?
And with that being said, I was thinking about something Adalind said about her own hexenbiest, and that was her concern over its unpredictability.
So what exactly does that mean? Can the human part predict what a spirit will do? I'm thinking in some cases they cannot. Perhaps the hexenbiest spirit can exert enough influence to change the human's intent. I actually think some of what we saw with Juliette could be examples of an unpredictable hexenbiest.
As for whether the hexenbiest provides the cure or the human, that is a really good part of your question. I honestly do not know.
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - New Guy - 01-25-2016
Hello Syscrash,
Your recent comments:
Quote:1. Eve will not try and convince Nick of anything.are open to rebuttal.
2. Second no character on the show has been held responsible for anything they have done.
3.The haters will be seeing red about Eve. There will be a lot of post the keep using Juliette events in discussion's about Eve. There are a group of viewers what will never be able to separate the two. Like Nick they just won't be able to let it go.
1. Eve is Juliette. Nick is a victim of her felonies of arson of the trailer and the murder of his Mother, Kelly. I agree she will never have any remorse and thus will do any felonious act with no concept of moral, ethical or legal consequence. She is the epitome of evil. The writers have failed to hold her responsible by creating Eve. That is huge departure from a Grimm Fairytales where the evil character is severely punished. Refer to this article: http://all-that-is-interesting.com/grimm-fairytales. The character Eve is less an issue than the writers who seem to not believe in personal responsibility.
2. What other character committed arson as an act of revenge? What other character participated in the murder of another character as an act of revenge? Focus on the act of killing another person (Wesen are also persons for this purpose). I may have asked before, but what person killed by one of the Scoobies was totally innocent? Even the punk Nick killed in the bar was attacking him. Yet Nick had extreme remorse and wanted to confess to the killing.
3. Juliette, Hexenette and Eve are the same person. They are inseparable. Those who believe in the lipstick on a pig transformation may also be interested in the latest special deal on the Brooklyn Bridge. George Parker was reincarnated just for you!
New Guy
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - irukandji - 01-25-2016
(01-25-2016, 05:57 PM)New Guy Wrote: Hello Syscrash,
Your recent comments:
Quote:1. Eve will not try and convince Nick of anything.are open to rebuttal.
2. Second no character on the show has been held responsible for anything they have done.
3.The haters will be seeing red about Eve. There will be a lot of post the keep using Juliette events in discussion's about Eve. There are a group of viewers what will never be able to separate the two. Like Nick they just won't be able to let it go.
1. Eve is Juliette. Nick is a victim of her felonies of arson of the trailer and the murder of his Mother, Kelly. I agree she will never have any remorse and thus will do any felonious act with no concept of moral, ethical or legal consequence. She is the epitome of evil. The writers have failed to hold her responsible by creating Eve. That is huge departure from a Grimm Fairytales where the evil character is severely punished. Refer to this article: http://all-that-is-interesting.com/grimm-fairytales. The character Eve is less an issue than the writers who seem to not believe in personal responsibility.
2. What other character committed arson as an act of revenge? What other character participated in the murder of another character as an act of revenge? Focus on the act of killing another person (Wesen are also persons for this purpose). I may have asked before, but what person killed by one of the Scoobies was totally innocent? Even the punk Nick killed in the bar was attacking him. Yet Nick had extreme remorse and wanted to confess to the killing.
3. Juliette, Hexenette and Eve are the same person. They are inseparable. Those who believe in the lipstick on a pig transformation may also be interested in the latest special deal on the Brooklyn Bridge. George Parker was reincarnated just for you!
New Guy
I think it's a twilight zone moment when Nick can feel extreme remorse for some stranger in a bar but can't get up any real grief for the woman he helped kill. He just continues to prove time and time again just how much Juliette was the love of his life. Yep.
I'm still not quite sure how to take Monroe's, Rosalee's, and Hank's reaction to Juliette's death. I suppose their way of acting surprised and then pretending it didn't happen is what works best for them.
Now in all fairness, Rosalee did experience a teeny tiny twinge of guilt....but then all was hunky dory.
But one thing was certain. They all got real comfortable with her absence.
This being the magic spells thread, it would have been interesting if Eve was created specifically as a lesson to them, a real uncomfortable reminder that their actions also contributed to her destruction.
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - New Guy - 01-26-2016
Hi Irukandji,
You commented:
Quote:He just continues to prove time and time again just how much Juliette was the love of his life. Yep.Are you referring to length of time Nick endured Juliette's loss of memory? Are you referring to her infatuation with Renard and her make out session in the spice shop? Or are you referring to her spurning his proposal? Most men would have dumped that bitch. Yep.
So to top it off she woges into her visage that matches her personality and expects Nick to kiss her. The stupid bitch has no lips to kiss.
![[Image: juliette-silverton-bitsie-tulloch-and-ni....png?w=600]](http://images.fashionnstyle.com/data/images/full/91470/juliette-silverton-bitsie-tulloch-and-nick-burkhardt-david-giuntoli.png?w=600)
Even after her tirades and acts of violence he holds her as she "dies."
![[Image: grimm-season-4-finale.jpg]](http://d.christiantoday.com/en/full/29888/grimm-season-4-finale.jpg)
New Guy