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+--- Thread: Magic Spells and Potions (/Thread-Magic-Spells-and-Potions)
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - Lin S. - 10-14-2015
(10-14-2015, 06:52 PM)eric Wrote: Magic is real. It is not slight of hand, not smoke and mirrors, not something that can be explained by science. When people told the original Grimm/fairy tales, they knew witches were real and had real power outside of the natural world, that things existed which could only be explained by magic. Elizabeth bringing her son back from the dead using a two headed snake. Being able to change from a wolf/fox/bird/another human using spells and potions. When a child believes in Santa Claus he believes in magic, flying around the world in one night with presents for all good children. I know that I have written how Wessen could have evolved by a genetic mistake but where is the magic in that? Without magic Grimm is no longer the fantasy show that I love and hope to see on the air for another 5 years. It may get dark, but read some of the original Grimm tales, not the Disney versions.
Since I don't believe in magic that must be why I can't see magic. But I agree that if I did believe, I would see it.
I like watching Grimm. But when I watch it I translate everything from a magical cause to a real world explanation. I think how could this happen and be consistent with physics of the universe? I don't do this with Once Upon a Time because I think the premise of that show is that magic is real in Storybrook.
Grimm is more subtle. For instance. In the season 5 sneak peek Nick tells Hank that Chavez's people took Kelly's head and Juliette's body. Hank asks why. Nick says to get rid of evidence.
Season 5 sneak peek
But in the real world a cop would know you can't get rid of forensic evidence easily. A severed head will bleed. Blood will soak through cardboard, will stain wooden floors and carpeting.
So I know Nick is talking nonsense, but which kind, is the question? Is he talking nonsense that there is no forensic evidence or is he talking nonsense when he says Juliette and Kelly's head were there in the first place?
You see, that's another explanation for why there is no blood, no evidence. Juliette and Kelly are figments of Nick's imagination.
Most fantasy shows say that magic is real and their stories are consistent with that. Does Grimm, though?
Maybe we should get New Guy here and do a search of wiki. In all of Grimm's press releases and descriptions of the show does it say that it is a show where magic is real? I remember it saying that the talking animals from Grimm's fairy tales were based on real, non magical people. It implied Grimm was not magical but just the opposite at the beginning.
Nick also believes in ghosts now. In Llorona, Hank says to Nick, "I thought we (meaning Grimms) didn't believe in ghosts." Nick says "We didn't."
So what is going on here? Have the law of physics changed in the Grimm world or is there another explanation? Is it Nick we shouldn't believe? Just because Nick believes something, and we are rooting for him, does that mean it is true in this world? Can he be a hero who is wrong?
Can Nick stray from sanity? What does Grimm tell us? I bet you we find out that it is silent on this question. The producers aren't bringing the question to the forefront because later, much, much later we are going to see that what Nick "sees" isn't what exists outside of his imagination.
Like Perception, we are seeing what Nick believes, not what is real. But I still love Nick and love the ride I'm on.
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - eric - 10-15-2015
Lin S, if this is a show about a mental case, I will be sorry I have wasted my time on it. This is a thread on magic potions and spells, not the pros and cons of lithium. The original Troy made perfect sense in that age because the gods(magic) were fighting among themselves. directing the action, clouding the minds of the characters, helping kill off the warriors. Still makes sense today. The Brad Pitt version of Troy could not rationally explain the abduction of Helen, why she was not sent back, or why Troy would take in the horse. Harry Potter's books and movies are about magic, not teenagers in an English mental hospital. In 12 Monkeys Pitt is coo coo, but everyone knows it. I read a lot of real science, . Grimm is not really real. I watch Grimm because it is not in the real world. I watch for the fantasy. If the writers and producers pull a Dallas on us, and it is revealed in the last episode to be a delusion, I will call down the wrath of the gods upon them(not a terrorist threat, please do not call the FBI, I am really tired of talking to them).
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - jsgrimm45 - 10-15-2015
(10-15-2015, 06:39 AM)eric Wrote: Lin S, if this is a show about a mental case, I will be sorry I have wasted my time on it. This is a thread on magic potions and spells, not the pros and cons of lithium. The original Troy made perfect sense in that age because the gods(magic) were fighting among themselves. directing the action, clouding the minds of the characters, helping kill off the warriors. Still makes sense today. The Brad Pitt version of Troy could not rationally explain the abduction of Helen, why she was not sent back, or why Troy would take in the horse. Harry Potter's books and movies are about magic, not teenagers in an English mental hospital. In 12 Monkeys Pitt is coo coo, but everyone knows it. I read a lot of real science, . Grimm is not really real. I watch Grimm because it is not in the real world. I watch for the fantasy. If the writers and producers pull a Dallas on us, and it is revealed in the last episode to be a delusion, I will call down the wrath of the gods upon them(not a terrorist threat, please do not call the FBI, I am really tired of talking to them).If may be wrong but I think Henrietta told Juliette to be careful because she now could access all of nature not magic. I took that to mean Juliette could bent the rules or use nature. We see all hexen use telekinesis is this magic or the mind control of the natural forces around everything?
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - Lin S. - 10-15-2015
(10-15-2015, 06:39 AM)eric Wrote: Lin S, if this is a show about a mental case, I will be sorry I have wasted my time on it. This is a thread on magic potions and spells, not the pros and cons of lithium. The original Troy made perfect sense in that age because the gods(magic) were fighting among themselves. directing the action, clouding the minds of the characters, helping kill off the warriors. Still makes sense today. The Brad Pitt version of Troy could not rationally explain the abduction of Helen, why she was not sent back, or why Troy would take in the horse. Harry Potter's books and movies are about magic, not teenagers in an English mental hospital. In 12 Monkeys Pitt is coo coo, but everyone knows it. I read a lot of real science, . Grimm is not really real. I watch Grimm because it is not in the real world. I watch for the fantasy. If the writers and producers pull a Dallas on us, and it is revealed in the last episode to be a delusion, I will call down the wrath of the gods upon them(not a terrorist threat, please do not call the FBI, I am really tired of talking to them).
If the magic people and the unmagic people can't torment each other we would have far fewer posts.
Do you think that Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is pulling a "Dallas?" As I have said I think Dallas was a fraud. They did not start out with the intention that it was a dream, but they tacked that on at the last minute and it was dishonest to their fans. Jekyll on the other hand is a "mystery". We assume Hyde and Jekyll as two different people and in the end we "discover" they are not.
I agree that Harry Potter is about magic. Hogswarth is not a mental hospital. Not every story about magic is about mental illness.
But some are and I see evidence that Grimm is about how we perceive things.
Hank says to Wu "No two people see things the same way." A Grimm is described as someone who sees what other's don't. The idea of "sight" is very significant in Grimm.
So if you and I don't "see eye to eye" on the series that shouldn't be a surprise,and it shouldn't ruin your experience of the show.
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - New Guy - 10-15-2015
Hi Forum,
Only 15 days until 5.1 "The Grimm Identity." So while the discussion of magic continues, take a little break and enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuiNtC4kURk
New Guy
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - Lin S. - 10-15-2015
(10-15-2015, 11:46 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Forum,
Only 15 days until 5.1 "The Grimm Identity." So while the discussion of magic continues, take a little break and enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuiNtC4kURk
New Guy
Oh you are clever.
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - irukandji - 10-15-2015
Lots of interesting things in this thread as of late. I wanted to put my spin on it.
eric said magic is real, not some trickery or something that can be explained by science. The issue I have with shows that use magic as part of the storyline is that pretty much everything can be explained away because...........it's magic! Well just what is magic? Where does it come from? How is it that certain people are magical and others aren't? There are a thousand questions I could ask here to which there are no answers.
Eric, I know you prefer the fantasy magical aspect of Grimm. One of the things I found really cool about the show is that it veered away from a magical aspect. I saw it as taking a real life approach. Wesen were not magical animals found in tales. They were humans with special gifts.
Hexenbiests were not witches like Samantha and Endora, who had infinite power and could do whatever they wanted. Instead, Grimm made them people I could relate to. Even the dweeb Adalind as the witch who can't quite get anything right fits right in with the story.
To top it off, they put it in Portland, not some fantasy city where anything goes. The characters are all flawed and sway more towards a darker nature than a heroic one.
Quote:Elizabeth bringing her son back from the dead using a two headed snake.
The death of a main character is supposed to create a whole different view to the series. In short, shock and loss. Yet was anyone really upset at Renard's "death"? No, because as a few people have told me, he can't die because he's a main character. Whatever.
I have an issue with shows bringing the dead back to life because it wakens the show by creating a huge black hole that the show cannot escape from. You know the Grimm creators are not going to leave this one alone. Now everyone can die and as long as Elizabeth (or a suitable replacement) is around with her two headed snake (or a suitable replacement), no one's in real danger.
I like the idea of ghosts in Grimm. There are lots of unexplained phenomena and that could be used to great advantage. Just not Jack the Ripper waiting around forever for Renard to kick the bucket so he can take over.......no, just no. Completely dumb.
Quote:Lin S, if this is a show about a mental case, I will be sorry I have wasted my time on it. This is a thread on magic potions and spells, not the pros and cons of lithium. The original Troy made perfect sense in that age because the gods(magic) were fighting among themselves. directing the action, clouding the minds of the characters, helping kill off the warriors. Still makes sense today. The Brad Pitt version of Troy could not rationally explain the abduction of Helen, why she was not sent back, or why Troy would take in the horse. Harry Potter's books and movies are about magic, not teenagers in an English mental hospital. In 12 Monkeys Pitt is coo coo, but everyone knows it. I read a lot of real science, . Grimm is not really real. I watch Grimm because it is not in the real world. I watch for the fantasy. If the writers and producers pull a Dallas on us, and it is revealed in the last episode to be a delusion, I will call down the wrath of the gods upon them(not a terrorist threat, please do not call the FBI, I am really tired of talking to them).
I actually think a mental illness perspective would be interesting. But that's a debate for another thread. What I really wanted to talk about was the character of Merlin. I've seen a few different versions of King Arthur, but the mini series with Sam Neill and the movie, Excalibur, are among my favorites. I was comparing them tonight and found something in common between the two of them.
In the mini-series, Queen Mab is a witch, who causes a lot of trouble for Merlin, including banishing Nimuweh so Merlin cannot get to her. To fight her, Merlin advises the court to "forget her". They all turn their backs to her, and she slowly disappears, forgotten.
Later Merlin, a very old man, is relating the story of his life to a small village. Frik, a gnome who partnered with Queen Mab and then turned against her, listens to Merlin's tale. When the tale ends, he goes up to Merlin and comments that Merlin's story is not how it entirely transpired and there were certain parts that were omitted.
Merlin replies that it is the version he believes people will prefer.
In Excalibur, Merlin actually dies, banished to a cave by Morgana, who has become more powerful than him. Arthur "dreams" of Merlin right before the great battle. Merlin tells Arthur that his dream brought him (Merlin) back to life. In a dream he visits Morgana and brings about her death.
Both of the stories tell about the power of belief. Queen Mab was powerful and magical because people believed in her and feared her. Excalibur's Merlin was powerful and magical because people believed in him, even after his death. In the mini-series, Merlin has one last spell. Nimuweh has been freed and when Merlin finds her, he uses the spell to make them young again so they can start over. But, people no longer believe in the old ways, so there is no more magic.
With regard to Grimm, if it all comes down to this being some kind of unreal reality in Nick's mind, I really don't have a problem with that. It's a fantasy, why not a fantasy of the mind?
Back to spells and potions. I like that the characters use real things, like hair and herbs to make their spells. It gives a real feel to the series. It also allows us to discuss the reality of spells, such as genetic changes to the recipient.
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - eric - 10-15-2015
(10-15-2015, 11:46 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Forum,Amen brother.We all await the dawn of the new season. Like your playlist too.
Only 15 days until 5.1 "The Grimm Identity." So while the discussion of magic continues, take a little break and enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuiNtC4kURk
New Guy
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - Hexenadler - 10-16-2015
(10-15-2015, 11:46 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Forum,
Only 15 days until 5.1 "The Grimm Identity." So while the discussion of magic continues, take a little break and enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuiNtC4kURk
New Guy
I've always thought this was the unofficial "mascot song" for Grimm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMFqkcPYcg
RE: Magic Spells and Potions - jsgrimm45 - 10-16-2015
(10-16-2015, 09:22 AM)Hexenadler Wrote:The first episode you are right could be the mascot song.(10-15-2015, 11:46 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Forum,
Only 15 days until 5.1 "The Grimm Identity." So while the discussion of magic continues, take a little break and enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuiNtC4kURk
New Guy
I've always thought this was the unofficial "mascot song" for Grimm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMFqkcPYcg