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+--- Thread: Diana (/Thread-Diana)
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RE: Diana - MarylikesGrimm - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 01:19 PM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:Really? Tell me about the scene where she agreed to become Eve, the special ops soldier. Tell me that she begged Meisner to slap her around some more and throw her into a locked cell because she really wanted that all along. Tell me how she agreed to having her brain scrambled so that Juliette was some remote brain bubble somewhere that she didn't dare access. Tell me about how she wanted all that and nothing more. You say there's no conspiracy theory. Prove it.She never agreed to being slapped around because Meisner only hit her the one time to make a point.
You can not find any evidence of her brain being scrambled. You are asking to explain things that never happened.
The assumptions you are making stems from your lack of knowledge of how someone is trained to be special ops.
I thought the issue was Eve was being kept a prisoner during the whole process which suggests that it is not voluntary.
RE: Diana - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 12:53 PM)irukandji Wrote: Renard was small potatoes in the BC picture. Nick would have been completely and utterly blind not to realize that. So taking Renard out wouldn't have done diddly squat to BC. Add to that the fact that Nick didn't even bother taking him out while BC was at their prime. So while he gave the appearance of cooperating with a federal organization, I didn't see him cooperating because of some noble belief that BC was about to take over the world and he was going to stop them in his small corner.
The fact of the matter is Nick went after Renard because he hated Renard and had a personal score to settle. Nothing more nothing less. He can try to cloak it under some maybe noble cause, but it wasn't noble at all. It's right along the same line as taking Kenneth down. He did it for his own personal purposes. That makes it about as corrupt as it can be.
Well, that's the whole problem with this plotline, isn't it? Nick never should have been in a position to "go after" anyone. HW should have given him a choice: join us, or spend the rest of this op off the streets in Homeland Security detention because you know too much to be allowed to run loose.
As soon as HW knew that Conrad was in Portland and concluded that BC was "massing their forces" in Portland, the rest of the story should have been right out of "Patriot Games." Nick and the scoobies should have been bundled off to HW - under arrest if need be - and been watching on the big screen while a tactical display showed a bunch of black helicopters and APCs loaded with troops raiding every known BC location and surgically removing them. Or at the very least, when Nick took Trubel and Eve to rescue Hank, the BC assault on HW should have found HW empty because Meisner had taken everyone else out to run a simultaneous hit on the North Precinct instead of just sitting where they were to be attacked.
Then the final Nick confrontation could have happened after the op was over as a small band of BC who managed to escape the raids came after the scoobies attempting to avenge the destruction of their movement.
RE: Diana - syscrash - 01-29-2017
Quote:I thought the issue was Eve was being kept a prisoner during the whole process which suggests that it is not voluntary.Did you not notice the rooms do not have locks on the doors. When some one is a prisoner you tell them what to do not ask them. New member do not have to past a prisoner's test. Again assumption are being made that is contradicted by what is shown. People see chavez looking in the room and Juliette is yelling. They assume she is locked in. The problem with this idea. It is shown Juliette and Eve can unlock any door and get past a security system. With that ability how would HW be able to lock her in.
RE: Diana - MarylikesGrimm - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 05:17 PM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:I thought the issue was Eve was being kept a prisoner during the whole process which suggests that it is not voluntary.Did you not notice the rooms do not have locks on the doors. When some one is a prisoner you tell them what to do not ask them. New member do not have to past a prisoner's test. Again assumption are being made that is contradicted by what is shown. People see chavez looking in the room and Juliette is yelling. They assume she is locked in. The problem with this idea. It is shown Juliette and Eve can unlock any door and get past a security system. With that ability how would HW be able to lock her in.
Meisner talks about letting Eve leave the wired area like for a dog in a backyard which is a suggested prison for her. Why did Juliette not attack or just leave the place when she first showed up?
RE: Diana - irukandji - 01-29-2017
Wait....iron doors and prison cells with no locks for a hexenbiest who clearly didn't want to be there? Why was she yelling then if she was free to leave at any time?
RE: Diana - syscrash - 01-29-2017
Quote:Meisner talks about letting Eve leave the wired area like for a dog in a backyard which is a suggested prison for her. Why did Juliette not attack or just leave the place when she first showed up?Meisner said it is time to go outside the wire. That is how it is defined when talking about executing a mission. Why would Juliette attack or leave. Meisner made her a very good offer.
Quote:Wait....iron doors and prison cells with no locks for a hexenbiest who clearly didn't want to be there? Why was she yelling then if she was free to leave at any time?The iron door is how the rooms are built. We saw where Chavez was looking in was Eves room at the end of the hall. Eve room was bigger then Trubel and Meisner. Their rooms where in the middle of the hall way.
Why was Eve yelling. That would be pure speculation. but from Chavez response it sounds like Chavez and Eve did not like each other. Juliette could have still been recovering and to woge was still causing pain.
What I think is amazing is the assumptions being stated are the perspective the show presented. It was after we meet Eve that they clarified the situation. They showed what we thought where cells where actually rooms. Who we thought was a captive was actually running her own opts. The person we thought was a mindless robot was shown to be very calculating. What I don't get is why so many are still stuck on the false narrative.
RE: Diana - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-29-2017
We have no idea why Eve was screaming. They obviously wanted the viewers to think it was Juliette being "conditioned" into Eve, but it could have been Eve already converted trying to practice spells out of Adalind's book and bolluxing them all. Meisner coming out of Eve's room all worn and battered and saying things are "better" could have been him training Eve in hand-to-hand.
RE: Diana - Hell Rell - 01-29-2017
The reasons given for why Eve was screaming being pure speculation doesn't point to one side or the other. Nothing is a certainty so it can't be described that way. Eve being a prisoner is speculation but so is her voluntarily being a soldier from the start. It's already been mentioned that we don't know why she was screaming so that automatically means we can't tell everyone why she was screaming as if it was an absolute certainty.
RE: Diana - brandon - 01-29-2017
Very bad what it says to Diana about Nick:if he hurts. .. He is conditioning it to attack him
RE: Diana - Robyn - 01-29-2017
G&K purposely made Juliette’s transition to Eve vague. The only flashbacks were HW tranquilizing her and taking her way, and Meisner punching her and promising that she’d learn to focus her anger.
That doesn’t promote the idea that Juliette was a willing participant. But if she was, and there wasn’t any type of force or brainwashing, then Juliette really is a selfish, heartless bitch. Choosing of her own free will to become a laser focused operative and putting all her negative energy into that effort, would not have required her rebuffing Nick’s questions. She could have simply told him she had to make a life for herself, and nothing she said would change the past. She did not need to insist that Juliette was dead.
Had Juliette actually chosen to become Eve, the Hexenbiest operative, the stick probably wouldn’t have broken down her Eve persona because a fake/created personality wouldn’t have existed.
(01-29-2017, 01:55 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Well, that's the whole problem with this plotline, isn't it? Nick never should have been in a position to "go after" anyone. HW should have given him a choice: join us, or spend the rest of this op off the streets in Homeland Security detention because you know too much to be allowed to run loose.I like your scenario, and would have preferred it, but G&K would probably think it overshadows their central character / hero.
As soon as HW knew that Conrad was in Portland and concluded that BC was "massing their forces" in Portland, the rest of the story should have been right out of "Patriot Games." Nick and the scoobies should have been bundled off to HW - under arrest if need be - and been watching on the big screen while a tactical display showed a bunch of black helicopters and APCs loaded with troops raiding every known BC location and surgically removing them. Or at the very least, when Nick took Trubel and Eve to rescue Hank, the BC assault on HW should have found HW empty because Meisner had taken everyone else out to run a simultaneous hit on the North Precinct instead of just sitting where they were to be attacked.
Then the final Nick confrontation could have happened after the op was over as a small band of BC who managed to escape the raids came after the scoobies attempting to avenge the destruction of their movement.
But we’re looking at it as a season arc about a government black ops combating a Wesen takeover. In reality, it was about Nick’s personal vendetta against Renard. It was, as it always is, all about Nick drama.
BC was a reason for HW to be in Portland, which provided a place to park Eve until the show was ready for Juliette to return.