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+--- Thread: Diana (/Thread-Diana)
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RE: Diana - irukandji - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 10:51 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:(01-29-2017, 07:36 AM)irukandji Wrote:No he should have informed HW and work undercover to bring down BC in Portland which in an off handed way Nick by appearing as Renard did.(01-29-2017, 07:14 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: He didn't know you are correct but after is does know what does he do? He could have told them to get lost and went to HW, but he didn't he jumped in with both feet to BC line. Dixon thought of him as a friend and a good police capt now we because we see everything that Sean was a law and order type. BC knew this so when the killed Dixon they had a good idea that Renard would turn them in or inform HW. They understand what makes Renard tic.
So the point of this is.....what? Renard should have told them to go pound sand and gotten himself and his family killed?
As we don't know much about BC and even less about HW, I would say Renard would have been completely wrong to go to HW. I'm with the poster who said that he was backed into a corner and was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.
RE: Diana - jsgrimm45 - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 10:55 AM)irukandji Wrote:We always see the whole story as viewers but we have to remember the character only see their part of the story. Renard knows Nick and Meisner he has had past dealing with them so why not at least trust the one's you know over the one's you don't?(01-29-2017, 10:51 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:(01-29-2017, 07:36 AM)irukandji Wrote:No he should have informed HW and work undercover to bring down BC in Portland which in an off handed way Nick by appearing as Renard did.(01-29-2017, 07:14 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: He didn't know you are correct but after is does know what does he do? He could have told them to get lost and went to HW, but he didn't he jumped in with both feet to BC line. Dixon thought of him as a friend and a good police capt now we because we see everything that Sean was a law and order type. BC knew this so when the killed Dixon they had a good idea that Renard would turn them in or inform HW. They understand what makes Renard tic.
So the point of this is.....what? Renard should have told them to go pound sand and gotten himself and his family killed?
As we don't know much about BC and even less about HW, I would say Renard would have been completely wrong to go to HW. I'm with the poster who said that he was backed into a corner and was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.
RE: Diana - irukandji - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 11:00 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:(01-29-2017, 10:55 AM)irukandji Wrote:We always see the whole story as viewers but we have to remember the character only see their part of the story. Renard knows Nick and Meisner he has had past dealing with them so why not at least trust the one's you know over the one's you don't?(01-29-2017, 10:51 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:(01-29-2017, 07:36 AM)irukandji Wrote:No he should have informed HW and work undercover to bring down BC in Portland which in an off handed way Nick by appearing as Renard did.(01-29-2017, 07:14 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: He didn't know you are correct but after is does know what does he do? He could have told them to get lost and went to HW, but he didn't he jumped in with both feet to BC line. Dixon thought of him as a friend and a good police capt now we because we see everything that Sean was a law and order type. BC knew this so when the killed Dixon they had a good idea that Renard would turn them in or inform HW. They understand what makes Renard tic.
So the point of this is.....what? Renard should have told them to go pound sand and gotten himself and his family killed?
As we don't know much about BC and even less about HW, I would say Renard would have been completely wrong to go to HW. I'm with the poster who said that he was backed into a corner and was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.
Nick didn't even side with HW. Juliette wouldn't have. She was forced to and then forced to assume a different identity.
Why would Renard trust them?
RE: Diana - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-29-2017
(01-28-2017, 08:44 PM)irukandji Wrote: I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying about Renard. But I don't hold Nick up as some kind of hero to the people for impersonating Sean and changing the election. In his own way he's just as corrupt as Sean. He's also a hypocrite because he told Sean he would support him as mayor. If Nick was all that shocked over Renard's mayoral campaign, he should have done something about it long before Sean was elected.
It would be absurd to expect Nick and the scoobies to continue to support Sean for mayor once they knew he was conspiring with Dixon's murderers. And Nick did try to do something about it; he cooperated with a federal operation working against the consliracy.
The big problem with the whole BC plotline was that HW was introduced as a govt black op whose tactics included having a hexenbiest assasinate an enemy leader, yet once they knew who the top leaders of BC were and what their plans were in Portland, suddenly they turn into the FBI and start looking for evidence and proof instead of sending in Eve and a squad of hooded commandos to target Sean, Conrad and their thugs for death or a free plane ride to Guantanamo Bay.
RE: Diana - syscrash - 01-29-2017
Quote:Nick didn't even side with HW. Juliette wouldn't have. She was forced to and then forced to assume a different identity.
There was never any dialog or actions that stated or implied Juliette becoming Eve was anything other then her choice. It is amazing people take a single scene where Meisner slaps her after she tried to choke him. Then they use that to build some conspiracy on how she was tortured and brain washed into Eve. What is even crazier is in real life people are turned into special ops solders all the. We know how that process works and it does not involve any kind of torture or brainwashing.
RE: Diana - irukandji - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 12:18 PM)syscrash Wrote: There was never any dialog or actions that stated or implied Juliette becoming Eve was anything other then her choice. It is amazing people take a single scene where Meisner slaps her after she tried to choke him. Then they use that to build some conspiracy on how she was tortured and brain washed into Eve. What is even crazier is in real life people are turned into special ops solders all the. We know how that process works and it does not involve any kind of torture or brainwashing.
Really? Tell me about the scene where she agreed to become Eve, the special ops soldier. Tell me that she begged Meisner to slap her around some more and throw her into a locked cell because she really wanted that all along. Tell me how she agreed to having her brain scrambled so that Juliette was some remote brain bubble somewhere that she didn't dare access. Tell me about how she wanted all that and nothing more. You say there's no conspiracy theory. Prove it.
RE: Diana - brandon - 01-29-2017
Maybe it was mental torture. Diana has more confusion in his head. A father says one thing and the other another thing. Renard remainds very spiteful. The stick is what would protect Nick from the attack of Diana.
RE: Diana - irukandji - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 11:56 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:(01-28-2017, 08:44 PM)irukandji Wrote: I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying about Renard. But I don't hold Nick up as some kind of hero to the people for impersonating Sean and changing the election. In his own way he's just as corrupt as Sean. He's also a hypocrite because he told Sean he would support him as mayor. If Nick was all that shocked over Renard's mayoral campaign, he should have done something about it long before Sean was elected.
It would be absurd to expect Nick and the scoobies to continue to support Sean for mayor once they knew he was conspiring with Dixon's murderers. And Nick did try to do something about it; he cooperated with a federal operation working against the consliracy.
The big problem with the whole BC plotline was that HW was introduced as a govt black op whose tactics included having a hexenbiest assasinate an enemy leader, yet once they knew who the top leaders of BC were and what their plans were in Portland, suddenly they turn into the FBI and start looking for evidence and proof instead of sending in Eve and a squad of hooded commandos to target Sean, Conrad and their thugs for death or a free plane ride to Guantanamo Bay.
Renard was small potatoes in the BC picture. Nick would have been completely and utterly blind not to realize that. So taking Renard out wouldn't have done diddly squat to BC. Add to that the fact that Nick didn't even bother taking him out while BC was at their prime. So while he gave the appearance of cooperating with a federal organization, I didn't see him cooperating because of some noble belief that BC was about to take over the world and he was going to stop them in his small corner.
The fact of the matter is Nick went after Renard because he hated Renard and had a personal score to settle. Nothing more nothing less. He can try to cloak it under some maybe noble cause, but it wasn't noble at all. It's right along the same line as taking Kenneth down. He did it for his own personal purposes. That makes it about as corrupt as it can be.
RE: Diana - syscrash - 01-29-2017
Quote:Really? Tell me about the scene where she agreed to become Eve, the special ops soldier. Tell me that she begged Meisner to slap her around some more and throw her into a locked cell because she really wanted that all along. Tell me how she agreed to having her brain scrambled so that Juliette was some remote brain bubble somewhere that she didn't dare access. Tell me about how she wanted all that and nothing more. You say there's no conspiracy theory. Prove it.She never agreed to being slapped around because Meisner only hit her the one time to make a point.
You can not find any evidence of her brain being scrambled. You are asking to explain things that never happened.
The assumptions you are making stems from your lack of knowledge of how someone is trained to be special ops.
RE: Diana - irukandji - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 01:19 PM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:Really? Tell me about the scene where she agreed to become Eve, the special ops soldier. Tell me that she begged Meisner to slap her around some more and throw her into a locked cell because she really wanted that all along. Tell me how she agreed to having her brain scrambled so that Juliette was some remote brain bubble somewhere that she didn't dare access. Tell me about how she wanted all that and nothing more. You say there's no conspiracy theory. Prove it.She never agreed to being slapped around because Meisner only hit her the one time to make a point.
You can not find any evidence of her brain being scrambled. You are asking to explain things that never happened.
The assumptions you are making stems from your lack of knowledge of how someone is trained to be special ops.
So, tell me....where's the scene to support your "assumptions"?
I mean, you do have more to your theory than calling me ignorant, right?