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+--- Thread: Diana (/Thread-Diana)
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RE: Diana - jsgrimm45 - 05-09-2016
(05-09-2016, 04:45 PM)Vance60 Wrote:I seen both Twilight zone the first with the kid than the second when he is an adult. So will we she be the kid (LBB) or the adult (LBB)? Or would they show the both in a short span we seen what looks like the kid but they could be setting the stage to see the growth?(05-09-2016, 12:56 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: Actually, the character of LBB reminds me of an old Twilight Zone episode titled "It's a Good Life".
Bill Mumy played a little boy with godlike powers. I will not spoil it for anyone who may not have seen it. But, it was not a good situation!
I get that vibe off of LBB. As I said in another post, I might well be wrong about her being evil, but I still lean in that direction.
Lol, I remember that Twilight Zone episode and it also sprung to mnd when LBB came onto the show. It would seem that her time with Kelly has done little to influence her behaviour. I wonder how things will progress with her and what adalind will do to try to control her behaviour.
RE: Diana - syscrash - 05-09-2016
Diana can get into your head, she has the ability of illusion. How would you ever be able to control her. The problem with Diana is she does because she can without feeling guilt. The other problem is Diana is a hexenbiest. From what we have seen their actions are driven by desire, with absence of concern. So to try to appeal to her since of right and wrong wont work. You have to give her something to strive for. Something to drive the desire. Right now the desire for Diana wanting Sean and Adalind together.
RE: Diana - irukandji - 05-10-2016
Quote:I have watched every episode several times. Can you please point to one time HW harnessed Eve's powers. From the very beginning Meisner has made it clear the operations are Eve's idea. Conspiracy theories about how Eve came to be are just that. Seeing how Eve operates, it has become evident that she is guided by belief, the idea she has a purpose. That the shows narrative said as much while explain Eve also support this position. There is no evidence that they beat the crap out of her, or she is under some mind control. The scene where Meisner slapped her, don't forget she was trying to kill him.
I just see Meisner as a coward. Big man slapping a woman he knew was subdued and couldn't fight him back. Real impressive.
In my opinion, this was none of Juliette's doing. It wasn't her idea to be kidnapped by HW, and it was apparent when she woke up she didn't want to be there. This is a thing that bothers me about HW. Tactics were used to influence her decision to stay there. I believe she was beaten into submission and then changed so that it appears she embraced HW initiatives.
RE: Diana - syscrash - 05-10-2016
Quote:I believe she was beaten into submission and then changed so that it appears she embraced HW initiatives.This is the same thinking people use tp justify the use of torture. They think torture provides valuable information. Even though studies, and captives have said just the opposite. If torture won't work for information, what make you think it would work to change somebody that is stronger then you. Why would Eve not just kill Meisner. The more likely approach would be to give her a reason for who and what she is. Like she said they gave her a purpose.
RE: Diana - degrimm - 05-11-2016
(05-10-2016, 11:41 PM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:I believe she was beaten into submission and then changed so that it appears she embraced HW initiatives.This is the same thinking people use tp justify the use of torture. They think torture provides valuable information. Even though studies, and captives have said just the opposite. If torture won't work for information, what make you think it would work to change somebody that is stronger then you. Why would Eve not just kill Meisner. The more likely approach would be to give her a reason for who and what she is. Like she said they gave her a purpose.
what if she made a deal with HW to devoid herself of emotion to serve as a weapon for them so that she doesn't feel anything for him.remember she keeps on repeating hexenbiest are valuable
RE: Diana - New Guy - 05-11-2016
Greetings Forum,
This thread is "Diana."
As often happens, the discussion has moved to FrankenEve.
I confess I am guilty of shifting the topic from a thread's intent.
IMO, the constant shift of topic is in part due to the show shifting the power from Grimm (Nick) to FrankenEve (Nick's DEAD? nemesis). I enjoyed Grimm and believe the original idea (fantasy police drama set in Portland) provided great entertainment. We can each choose our heros (good guys) and bad guys. They will have conflicts. IMO, when the writers of Grimm turned Juliette bad, she she attempted to kill the hero (Nick) but died in his arms. Unfortunately the writers do not understand that "death is permanent." Not only did they violate the permanence rule, they created FrankenEve as the most powerful (ability to torture and kill) character.
For some of us, every time she comes on the screen is to reopen the wounds of all the vile disgusting and despicable acts she committed.
So back to Diana. Who will be the next to die by the powers of sweet little purple eyes (aka LBB)?
New Guy
RE: Diana - irukandji - 05-11-2016
(05-10-2016, 11:41 PM)syscrash Wrote: This is the same thinking people use tp justify the use of torture. They think torture provides valuable information. Even though studies, and captives have said just the opposite. If torture won't work for information, what make you think it would work to change somebody that is stronger then you. Why would Eve not just kill Meisner. The more likely approach would be to give her a reason for who and what she is. Like she said they gave her a purpose.
You're comparing facts on torture in the real world with torture in Grimm. I don't know how the torture worked, but I believe she was tortured until there was noting left, and Meisner built her up to be Eve. She didn't agree to being kidnapped, and she didn't agree to being subdued so Meisner could slap her. I highly doubt she willingly accepted the persona of Eve because HW offered her a purpose in life. I believe a hexenbiest may have been involved in her "treatment" and that's why we see the person we see. If this treatment was so great, why is Juliette starting to peek through? No personality should be there because Eve was convinced it was dead and, using your argument, she has a purpose in life. Those two things should keep her into believing she's Eve, she's alive and has a purpose and Juliette is dead and never had a purpose.
RE: Diana - degrimm - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 05:27 AM)irukandji Wrote:(05-10-2016, 11:41 PM)syscrash Wrote: This is the same thinking people use tp justify the use of torture. They think torture provides valuable information. Even though studies, and captives have said just the opposite. If torture won't work for information, what make you think it would work to change somebody that is stronger then you. Why would Eve not just kill Meisner. The more likely approach would be to give her a reason for who and what she is. Like she said they gave her a purpose.
You're comparing facts on torture in the real world with torture in Grimm. I don't know how the torture worked, but I believe she was tortured until there was noting left, and Meisner built her up to be Eve. She didn't agree to being kidnapped, and she didn't agree to being subdued so Meisner could slap her. I highly doubt she willingly accepted the persona of Eve because HW offered her a purpose in life. I believe a hexenbiest may have been involved in her "treatment" and that's why we see the person we see. If this treatment was so great, why is Juliette starting to peek through? No personality should be there because Eve was convinced it was dead and, using your argument, she has a purpose in life. Those two things should keep her into believing she's Eve, she's alive and has a purpose and Juliette is dead and never had a purpose.
@irukandji i've seen in general "in some tvshows and movies" people take on certain task so as not to feel anything for anybody, maybe she allowed for it to happen cos she had no biz going to look for nick to kill him- remember when she was beating up nick that she said maybe her love for him might never go away; trubel said it the training juliette went thru, others generally don't survive, so why did eve survive?
RE: Diana - irukandji - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 06:15 AM)degrimm Wrote:(05-11-2016, 05:27 AM)irukandji Wrote:(05-10-2016, 11:41 PM)syscrash Wrote: This is the same thinking people use tp justify the use of torture. They think torture provides valuable information. Even though studies, and captives have said just the opposite. If torture won't work for information, what make you think it would work to change somebody that is stronger then you. Why would Eve not just kill Meisner. The more likely approach would be to give her a reason for who and what she is. Like she said they gave her a purpose.
You're comparing facts on torture in the real world with torture in Grimm. I don't know how the torture worked, but I believe she was tortured until there was noting left, and Meisner built her up to be Eve. She didn't agree to being kidnapped, and she didn't agree to being subdued so Meisner could slap her. I highly doubt she willingly accepted the persona of Eve because HW offered her a purpose in life. I believe a hexenbiest may have been involved in her "treatment" and that's why we see the person we see. If this treatment was so great, why is Juliette starting to peek through? No personality should be there because Eve was convinced it was dead and, using your argument, she has a purpose in life. Those two things should keep her into believing she's Eve, she's alive and has a purpose and Juliette is dead and never had a purpose.
@irukandji i've seen in general "in some tvshows and movies" people take on certain task so as not to feel anything for anybody, maybe she allowed for it to happen cos she had no biz going to look for nick to kill him- remember when she was beating up nick that she said maybe her love for him might never go away; trubel said it the training juliette went thru, others generally don't survive, so why did eve survive?
I can't say why Eve survived, degrimm. I guess the same could be said of Trubel. Wouldn't she have had to go through the same type of training?
She also asked Nick to kill her and he did not. That tells me Juliette wanted to die. Instead, she was kidnapped and was forcibly subdued against her will. We know that because she tried to attack Meisner when she woke up. I don't get the feeling she was given a choice to be Juliette the hexenbiest or Eve the weapon. I think HW forced her into becoming Eve.
RE: Diana - jsgrimm45 - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 06:51 AM)irukandji Wrote:Should we add Diana into the training not torture? Diana was taken when the King was taken out and we have no idea what she did after that. So for a time she may have had a different hand in Juliette become Eve. Eve did say one time that maybe they should do the samething to Nick as her. We only seen Diana lately not what she may have been doing before. So Diana may have played a hand in Eve more that Meisner. The times we seen Meisner come out of the room that could have be hand to hand combat training maybe with Eve or Trubel.(05-11-2016, 06:15 AM)degrimm Wrote:(05-11-2016, 05:27 AM)irukandji Wrote:(05-10-2016, 11:41 PM)syscrash Wrote: This is the same thinking people use tp justify the use of torture. They think torture provides valuable information. Even though studies, and captives have said just the opposite. If torture won't work for information, what make you think it would work to change somebody that is stronger then you. Why would Eve not just kill Meisner. The more likely approach would be to give her a reason for who and what she is. Like she said they gave her a purpose.
You're comparing facts on torture in the real world with torture in Grimm. I don't know how the torture worked, but I believe she was tortured until there was noting left, and Meisner built her up to be Eve. She didn't agree to being kidnapped, and she didn't agree to being subdued so Meisner could slap her. I highly doubt she willingly accepted the persona of Eve because HW offered her a purpose in life. I believe a hexenbiest may have been involved in her "treatment" and that's why we see the person we see. If this treatment was so great, why is Juliette starting to peek through? No personality should be there because Eve was convinced it was dead and, using your argument, she has a purpose in life. Those two things should keep her into believing she's Eve, she's alive and has a purpose and Juliette is dead and never had a purpose.
@irukandji i've seen in general "in some tvshows and movies" people take on certain task so as not to feel anything for anybody, maybe she allowed for it to happen cos she had no biz going to look for nick to kill him- remember when she was beating up nick that she said maybe her love for him might never go away; trubel said it the training juliette went thru, others generally don't survive, so why did eve survive?
I can't say why Eve survived, degrimm. I guess the same could be said of Trubel. Wouldn't she have had to go through the same type of training?
She also asked Nick to kill her and he did not. That tells me Juliette wanted to die. Instead, she was kidnapped and was forcibly subdued against her will. We know that because she tried to attack Meisner when she woke up. I don't get the feeling she was given a choice to be Juliette the hexenbiest or Eve the weapon. I think HW forced her into becoming Eve.
This is why I think Diana the character is misleading us now she is with HW not by force but because she wants to be. She is playing BC and maybe even her Dad. That is the twist I think we will see.
Or another way is Elizabeth has been training both Diana and Eve.
Thoughts ideas?