(05-17-2015, 06:38 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Lets start with Meisner: This character will have a bigger role next season I have been thinking (that may be a Joke) that helicopter take over was very welll planned but who planned it? Does Diana have the insight to see somewhat into the future an had told Kelly what was going to happen and Kelly with Meisner planned the escape for Diana. Does the resistance have that good of information (I don't think so they would have had to know Kelly would be killed and what Nick an team would do). Sean would not have that information either, so I think Diana know and Meisner and Kelly made the plan, or the plan was only to kill the King and Meisner just luck out but his face looked like he know and Diana did know. I still think that Adalind and Meisner are a thing next season. We know Kelly had contact off and on with the resistance but didn't trust them to raise Diana I still think this holds true. Kelly was always on step ahead of most so I think even with Juliette email I think she would have show hours early to double check guess it's possible that Juliette sent a second email warning Kelly and Kelly still came because not doing so would have put Nick in worse danger. Meisner will stay in Portland to protect Adalind and Diana. Meisner and Nick will work very well together and may even help Nick giving Nick his contact with the resistance without Sean. We have a whole off season to think up new ideas.

(05-17-2015, 10:56 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:

(05-17-2015, 06:38 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Lets start with Meisner: This character will have a bigger role next season I have been thinking (that may be a Joke) that helicopter take over was very welll planned but who planned it? Does Diana have the insight to see somewhat into the future an had told Kelly what was going to happen and Kelly with Meisner planned the escape for Diana. Does the resistance have that good of information (I don't think so they would have had to know Kelly would be killed and what Nick an team would do). Sean would not have that information either, so I think Diana know and Meisner and Kelly made the plan, or the plan was only to kill the King and Meisner just luck out but his face looked like he know and Diana did know. I still think that Adalind and Meisner are a thing next season. We know Kelly had contact off and on with the resistance but didn't trust them to raise Diana I still think this holds true. Kelly was always on step ahead of most so I think even with Juliette email I think she would have show hours early to double check guess it's possible that Juliette sent a second email warning Kelly and Kelly still came because not doing so would have put Nick in worse danger. Meisner will stay in Portland to protect Adalind and Diana. Meisner and Nick will work very well together and may even help Nick giving Nick his contact with the resistance without Sean. We have a whole off season to think up new ideas.

I also believe Meisner has a bigger role to play, and that he was possibly working with resistance or on his own to get Diana at the end, earlier in the show when Sean went to Vienna, Meisner said his family was on the run from the royals for about as long as Sean and his mother were and that Meisner and his father got very good at staying under the radar and escaping, shown by his genius removal of a random step on the staircase knowing anyone coming down at night would fall, yet he also says to Adalind when there at the cabin that his wife and possibly a child were killed by the royals, thats actually when i personally believe Adalind fell in love with Meisner, besides him protecting her after she gives birth the look she gives him is one i could only explain as a form of love or affection, Diana also has feelings for Meisner, i cant recall if Diana was born or not at the time but i recall someone trying to kill them all kills himself instead, Meisner turns and thanks Adalind but she says that wasen't me, also shown by the fact Diana remembers Meisner from when she was born and simply smiles at him after seeing him throw her grandfather from a moving chopper

I see Meisner almost as a male version of Kelly, he lived the way hes lived so long its all second nature to him and he's basically become the most dangerous ghost the royals have had to deal with, this is seen by the fact that the royals figure out it was Meisner helping Adalind yet thats as far as they ever get in regards to Meisner himself, as he chose to remain behind knowing they were looking for him and still wasen't caught


The strange part for me tho is noone knows exactly where Meisners loyalty lies, he could be lying to everyone, the safehouse that him and Sean stayed at was found and raided, and only 3 ppl knew, later we see someone getting tortured cause they say hes the mole but are we sure? Cause when Kelly shows up to get Adalind out there are verrat waiting, Kelly says the Resistance is sending a plane but they didnt send kelly she showed up on her own, so if they weren't at the plane yet how did the verrat know they were going to be there in the woods at that location at that time



I also personally don't believe Kelly was/would be killed so easily, even to the point that Kenneth says she wasn't even a good fight when we've seen her wreck groups of actually anyone who comes after her lol and thats not even counting the fact that they thought she was dead for years up until Adalind told them she was the one with Diana, or the fact that Diana saw Kelly as her mother and most likely could have killed everyone easy to keep her safe, but the actress playing Kelly has other things in the works currently so sadly she probably is actually dead, i could tell it wasn't her walking up to the house and i figured it was a look a like kelly sent in, but I read the actress wasn't available due to filming of a new shows Pilot shes in (possibly the Limitless Pilot) so they were forced to use a look a like for that scene



Issues rise tho due to the fact that as you said Kelly tells Nick neither side can get Diana or power (Royal or Resistance), and when Kelly talks with Sean she says she sometimes assists the Resistance but is Not a part of it

the small army with Agent Chavez in the final moments seemed to be dressed like resistance as well which leads me to believe that Trubel took Chavez up on her offer (even tho i first thought it was kelly telling Trubel the plan since Trubel seemed to not react at all to finding out nicks mom was dead), but with Nick knowing what his mom said does that mean Nick and Trubel will be on different sides now?


Also we know Juliette was dying as it ended so most likely itll pick up Season 5 episode 1 with sort of a recap, showing Juliette about to kill nick, Trubel killing her, and the ppl storming the house, so its still up in the air if Juliette is even actually dead seeing as they drilled in the fact that noone knows the power she has, as Monroe puts it "its one of those this has never happened to anyone at anytime, kinda once in a lifetime type things" lol

We saw Trubel shoot her with the Grimm crossbow but we have no idea if the bolts were empty, full of poison, or if there was actually more of Adalind's potion and thats what was in it, on top of the fact that we already know a Hexenbeast can bring her back similar to how Cpt. Renard mother saved him, and thats if juliette herself cant just take the shots and still live



in my opinion, if Kelly and Juliette are both dead, possibly in the same day, that Nick would no longer be the Nick hes been, i could only imagine if it were me id kill Trubel without thinking just blind rage, i actually thought that was how it was going to end, with guys running up to the house and us hearing a gunshot but it didnt

(05-18-2015, 08:52 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: I think Trubel took Chavez up on her offer to protect Josh. We do know who told the royals about the safe house (Meisner said he didn't the safe house up) we see him kill when Sean shows up at the meeting with the resistance. I think Meisner only has loose connection with the resistance and you are right about Kelly and Meisner that's why Kelly setup the back up plan with Meisner. Trubel killed Juliette for Nick knowing Nick couldn't but Nick knows it had to be done. Truble like Juliette so that was very very hard on her but someone had to do it so I respect hard choice she made. How does this track with you?

(05-18-2015, 10:17 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:

(05-18-2015, 08:52 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: I think Trubel took Chavez up on her offer to protect Josh. We do know who told the royals about the safe house (Meisner said he didn't the safe house up) we see him kill when Sean shows up at the meeting with the resistance. I think Meisner only has loose connection with the resistance and you are right about Kelly and Meisner that's why Kelly setup the back up plan with Meisner. Trubel killed Juliette for Nick knowing Nick couldn't but Nick knows it had to be done. Truble like Juliette so that was very very hard on her but someone had to do it so I respect hard choice she made. How does this track with you?

My counter questions to some of that would be

Why would Trubel need Chavez to protect Josh unless it was Chavez's ppl chasing him?, we've seen and heard before that Trubel is kinda a badass, when she was 10 she was able to hurt a siegbarste enough that he woged saw she was a Grimm and ran off, and she has no problem beheading Hundjäger even with her eyes closed lol


i also believe Meizner isn't to close to the Resistance, he has skills they can use and they have resources he needs is how i see the relationship there

If Meizner and Kelly met, it would have had to been off camera since at the plane scene when Meizner's still trying to get Adalind out he says noone else is supposed to be there and has no idea who kelly is thats when she says the resistance didnt send her she came on her own, i assumed this was kelly already knowing the babies power and having her own plan to keep it from both sides, as she mentions to Nick later on

When Trubel says "goodbye Juliette" and shoots her she doesn't look remorseful at all to me, kinda has a look like o well another day as a grimm, she has a somewhat im sorry but you know i had to look when nick looks up at her holding juliette dying in his arms

But we also don't know what was in the crossbow bolts, we only see nick pick the 2 Jumbo's to put the Poison in to take out the guards quietly, we never see how many bolts actually have poison put in them, we know the crossbow holds 2 bolts at 1 time and nick uses both on guards, then the crossbow seems to not be around to much till we see Trubel with it

so then the question is

were the bolts empty? Full of Poison? Maybe full of tranquilizer? or was there actually more of adalind's "Silence" potion and Rosalee lied and that's in them?

then second would any of the above things be able to take out the most power hexenbeast who has ever lived?, cause we've been drilled this whole season of the fact that Juliette's power are way beyond what anyone can comprehend, they talked more about how powerful Juliette is then anyone ever said Adalind's baby would be, so is juliette more powerful then the child?


also my own personal Question

Did anyone else notice there is something totally off with Adalind, and not her attitude??

When nick takes her powers with the blood of a Grimm we see her Hexenbeast soul looking thing leave

Then Adalind gets her powers back but she must give birth first, so after she has Diana we see her Hexenbeast come back

Yet when she takes the "Silence" Potion 2 Different hexenbeast soul looking things come up out of her twirl around and go back into her, what was that? lol

(05-22-2015, 09:07 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: You gave me a lot to think about so it's taken time to reply. I think Meisner saw how good Kelly was and make a point to find her (off camera) he and Kelly were free lance for the resistance not directly connected. Sean when direct to Meisner to kill Eric and this was before the resistance war council meeting an I noted that Meisner wasn't part of the talks just there and a body guard (so to speak for Sean). He told Adalind that the royals had killed his girl and not quickly so he may help them out but has his on plans that may not be theirs. Bud ask Trubel if Josh is ok she told yes we know the royals were after the key in and email to Nick Trubel tells Nick that they had no trouble getting back or at the house and found that strange them we don't hear any more. Chavez was covering the house and them threaten Josh not being covered to get Trubel to work for her. If the royals sent like a dozen verrat even Trubel could not have stop that without help. The team at the King house would have pick up anything they had brought with them Trubel pulled to crossbow bolts out. We saw Monroe just dip the rife shells in the S. gift not so the bolts didn't have to be filled. We also saw Hank with the crossbow (I think was Hank) enter the house but didn't fire it. The bolts were not left at the house. The also to what was left of S. gift with them so Trubel could have use the same bolts on Juliette or re dipped them. Trubel's life has been hard so killing Juliette wasn't easy but she knew the old Juliette would not have wanted being the new Juliette plus she is a Grimm (they do what they must) and has a Grimm connection with Nick. I thought her face did look regretful. I don't think Diana is a hexenbeist she is something new (I think Nick blood acts a potion) so Adalind got her powers back but Nicks blood potion changed Diana powers. We only seen Diana (so far) respond when she is in danger or thinks she is that's why she didn't help Kelly she knew she wasn't in danger (I had to think about that for long while) she knew the King was a danger but even then she didn't kill him only showed him is was about to die. Someone post a good idea (I give them all the credit for idea not me ) that Adalind becoming Juliette and Juliette becoming Adalind cause a connection and a slow transformation change each into the other that's why Juliette changed to a more Adalind and Adalind changed to more the old Juliette. Adalind did every thing the old Juliette would have done. What do you think? If I can find that post on the Adalind Juliette I will come back to make sure they get the credit so the great idea.

(05-22-2015, 09:27 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:

(05-22-2015, 09:07 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: You gave me a lot to think about so it's taken time to reply. I think Meisner saw how good Kelly was and make a point to find her (off camera) he and Kelly were free lance for the resistance not directly connected. Sean when direct to Meisner to kill Eric and this was before the resistance war council meeting an I noted that Meisner wasn't part of the talks just there and a body guard (so to speak for Sean). He told Adalind that the royals had killed his girl and not quickly so he may help them out but has his on plans that may not be theirs. Bud ask Trubel if Josh is ok she told yes we know the royals were after the key in and email to Nick Trubel tells Nick that they had no trouble getting back or at the house and found that strange them we don't hear any more. Chavez was covering the house and them threaten Josh not being covered to get Trubel to work for her. If the royals sent like a dozen verrat even Trubel could not have stop that without help. The team at the King house would have pick up anything they had brought with them Trubel pulled to crossbow bolts out. We saw Monroe just dip the rife shells in the S. gift not so the bolts didn't have to be filled. We also saw Hank with the crossbow (I think was Hank) enter the house but didn't fire it. The bolts were not left at the house. The also to what was left of S. gift with them so Trubel could have use the same bolts on Juliette or re dipped them. Trubel's life has been hard so killing Juliette wasn't easy but she knew the old Juliette would not have wanted being the new Juliette plus she is a Grimm (they do what they must) and has a Grimm connection with Nick. I thought her face did look regretful. I don't think Diana is a hexenbeist she is something new (I think Nick blood acts a potion) so Adalind got her powers back but Nicks blood potion changed Diana powers. We only seen Diana (so far) respond when she is in danger or thinks she is that's why she didn't help Kelly she knew she wasn't in danger (I had to think about that for long while) she knew the King was a danger but even then she didn't kill him only showed him is was about to die. Someone post a good idea (I give them all the credit for idea not me ) that Adalind becoming Juliette and Juliette becoming Adalind cause a connection and a slow transformation change each into the other that's why Juliette changed to a more Adalind and Adalind changed to more the old Juliette. Adalind did every thing the old Juliette would have done. What do you think? If I can find that post on the Adalind Juliette I will come back to make sure they get the credit so the great idea.

The Flip Flop Theory was mine, in the where i think season 4 went wrong thread i believe, unless someone else had the same idea

As for Trubel and Chavez that's kinda what i was trying to say, that i dont know if Trubel would just join Chavez unless she had something on Trubel like Josh's safety

I also think Meisner would or may have tried to get in touch with kelly after meeting her but seeing as the actress isn't going to be in the show at all idk if theyll go that route cause they would then need to show us flashbacks which if not already filmed would need a double to play her so we probably wouldnt see her face or anything

Also not disagreeing that Trubel could have added poison herself, just saying since were only shown 2 bolts being filled of it we cant really know just yet what was up with it, could have been filled with anything or nothing at all

Diana is something Special we just dunno if its its own thing or not cause idk if anyone like her has existed before, we learned that she would be extremely powerful from not only the fact that shes from a Hexenbiest/Zauberbiest relation, Plus the royal blood makes her stronger, plus the grimm blood most likely makes her even stronger as well Kelly telling Nick if Adalind got her powers back when pregnant it would have effected the baby so yet again something else that makes Diana even more powerful

As far as Diana and Kelly my thought there came from the Immediate connection there seemed to be with them on the plane or even at monroes house, wesen and grimms seem to use there powers sometimes cause there linked to emotions, i just couldn't picture Diana sitting there all calm watching Kelly get murdered, but that brought me to another question to myself that ill have to wait for next season to bring up and one that im not sure about since we see diana in multiple places later But.....

That doesn't have to be diana, we saw 2 different times when she was a new born baby that diana can clone herself basically making anything look like her, we also know diana while in the womb had 2 heartbeats which hasn't been brought back up which led me to think diana can split herself and basically be 2 places at once

(05-22-2015, 01:11 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: It may be the writers do not want a child to be able to kill so that's why so far she only used her power for distraction or warning. When Victor was holding her in the car she used the coffee to warn him (closing the locket)

Do (I do) you think that she knows and remembers everyone she every meet even as a baby? I know there are ppl who remember every day every minute of their lives. She looked like she trusted Juliette, but she also went to the King. Your ideas?

(05-23-2015, 05:55 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:

(05-22-2015, 01:11 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: It may be the writers do not want a child to be able to kill so that's why so far she only used her power for distraction or warning. When Victor was holding her in the car she used the coffee to warn him (closing the locket)

Do (I do) you think that she knows and remembers everyone she every meet even as a baby? I know there are ppl who remember every day every minute of their lives. She looked like she trusted Juliette, but she also went to the King. Your ideas?

I can't remember 100%, but doesn't Diana either right before born or right after, make a verrat about to shoot Miesner or Adalind , shoot himself, I recall something like this and Miesner turning to adalind and saying thank you and she says that wasn't me

Also yes I believe Diana remembers probably everything possibly even from before being born, when she first sees Meissner in the chopper we see she has a flashback of being born and sees him and adalind and she simply smiles at him