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+---- Thread: S4E22 - Cry Havoc (/Thread-S4E22-Cry-Havoc)
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - J73 - 05-16-2015
(05-15-2015, 07:52 PM)Belle Wrote:(05-15-2015, 07:32 PM)Grimmster123 Wrote: The return of Meisner in the helicopter was extremely cool, great nod to the fans of the show. I had completely forgot about him so it will be interesting to see what happens with him and Diana in Season 5. Now the ending with Agent Chavez was also a welcome surprise however the phone call in Bud's truck gave it away a little bit. I'm not sure that was necessary but it was still an interesting ending none the less. The amount of significant deaths in the finale was unreal. Kenneth, Dead. Ruspoli, Dead. The King, Dead? Juliette, Dead? Definitely going to be a hectic Season 5!! Great finale!!!!Did you recognize the voice on the call Trubel received?
I couldn't so for a few terrible moments I worried Trubel was in league with the bad guys. Don't get me wrong, I was soo glad she wasn't, but...for a little while I wondered if the worst wasn't possible.
Agent Chavez was the person on the mobile to Trubel, so don't think that Trubel is out of the woods yet
But come to think of it....Juliette does know the location of the three keys that Nick has, that's why Trubel fired the crossbow, perhaps Juliette is unconscious and Trubel might be under pressure to get the keys from Nick so Agent Chavez can get them. Next season is going to get ugly I think.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - Lou - 05-16-2015
(05-16-2015, 12:55 AM)Gaultheria Wrote: The finale felt mechanical to me. It was all about dealing with plotlines that had already been introduced, and a finale has to do that, but I thought it should have given us (and the main characters) something new to wonder about, to keep interest going over the summer.
I thought Chavez pretty much did that. Not to mention the King of the Royals is dead and Meisner has Diana. And now thanks to some of the guys here in the forum I now wonder if Juliette is really dead.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - sasquatch - 05-16-2015
Lou is right. They left us with a lot. Chavez pretty much did that by showing up as well as the Royals being disintegrated and the resistance having Diana. And the aftermath of Nick's Mom and love of his life being dead.
I don't think that Chavez is after Juliette's body like some suspect. In the car with Bud, Trubel was ignoring the call until Bud insisted she get it. She was avoiding Chavez meaning that she has been working with her and her team, and then obviously left to go to Portland to help Nick which annoyed Chavez as Chavez thought she ran away from her obligation in helping Nick. When Chavez shows up and says "Get Her", 99% sure she's meaning Trubel. I think Juliette is dead for good! Although her showing remorse for her actions leaves the 1% open that she will be alive and will be redeemed next season. (I hope that's not the case. She needs to be dead for the series to move forward).
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - Grimmster123 - 05-16-2015
I think the writers did an absolutely fabulous job with this finale. Sure they didn't open up a ton of new plot points like in finales past but they did chose to revisit some old plot points that others myself included thought that they had given up on such as Meisner and Agent Chavez. I'd rather have the writers give us some closure to those storylines rather than open up more storylines.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - AddictedtoGrimm - 05-16-2015
I forgot about that guy showing up in the helicopter. Glad they showed who he was in the past or I wouldnt have remembered. i thought he died, but I must have been thinking of someone else.
That call that Truble got was weird, i dont know who that was...
They could set it up like a Dallas thing and have Nick dream the last scene, its possible but if not, she is dead finally. i just hope nick isnt too much at truble, she did what he told her to do and he said he didnt love her anymore so he needs to move on.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - LisaMVA - 05-16-2015
(05-16-2015, 04:47 AM)Lou Wrote:(05-16-2015, 12:55 AM)Gaultheria Wrote: The finale felt mechanical to me. It was all about dealing with plotlines that had already been introduced, and a finale has to do that, but I thought it should have given us (and the main characters) something new to wonder about, to keep interest going over the summer.
I thought Chavez pretty much did that. Not to mention the King of the Royals is dead and Meisner has Diana. And now thanks to some of the guys here in the forum I now wonder if Juliette is really dead.
I think a better finale ending would have been "Headache" Nick finding his mother dead and her head in the box.
My husband and I plan on re-watching the episode today. But it felt so....rehearsed, for lack of a better word. Too "tidy": all the bad guys die: the King, Kenneth. And poor Juliette. They should have put a big red bow on the whole thing.
I know Juliette had a lot of haters but she has more fans and people who adore her. I bet many will be demanding NBC bring her back. ?
Nick loses his mom and Juliette....how does he recover from this? I really was surprised that Trubel didn't try and reason with Juliette, just whacked her instead. But what really bothers me, is that when Trubel is told Juliette is a "Hexenbiest" she doesn't demand to know WTF happened and how it happened. Just lovely Rosealee saying "she torched the trailer and tried to kill Monroe." Trubel should have been much more curious--that's her nature. It leaves one wondering....
To me, this ending was way too tidy. My husband and I have been huge fans of the show but this is the first time I've been on any forum like this.
I predict, that if Juliette is indeed dead it will cause a big drop in the ratings. They'd have to really get some good writing and story lines immersed in to the show. I predict it will not be renewed for a 6th season.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - wfmyers1207 - 05-16-2015
Best damned episode ever!! That whiny b%^ch is finally dead!! Praise Jesus and can I get an AMEN brothers and sisters!!
Judging by the phone call in the truck and seeing Agent Chavez at the end, it would seem that Truble is now working for the FBI. Now I begin to wander just why she came back to Portland. She didn't know about all the crap that was going down. Was she setting Nick up? Or maybe trying to recruit him for Chavez? She could have told Chavez about the whole degrimming/regrimming deal. Be interesting to see what was really going on there next season.
Some folks seem to think that Chavez was there to get Juliette's corpse, but I don't see how that could be. How would Chavez know she was dead? I think she's there to get Truble AND Nick.
I really hope that Juliette is truly dead, dead , DEAD!! That alone should raise the ratings 2 or 3 points next season. If they somehow bring her back there will never be a season 6!
Some folks also seem to think that Renard is now automatically king. That is not true. It's one thing to have a title and another to have power. Also, in many countries it was forbidden for bastard children to gain the throne. This was to discourage usurpation. Of course, this is a TV show not the real world. So, if they want to go down that road they could do so.
It will also be interesting to see what comes of the Laufer now having LBB (Diana). Kelly was pretty adamant that it would not be good for the Royals OR the Laufer to have her. We'll see how that turns out next season I guess.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - irukandji - 05-16-2015
(05-16-2015, 12:30 AM)izzy Wrote: One poster writes:
It hadn't occurred to me to wonder what happened to Juliette until she showed up at her house.
And another writes:
I have to say, Juliette going back to Nick's house
My comments:
For some reason I was always under the impression Juliette owned the house and Nick moved in with her. So does anyone recall who actually owned the house and moved in with whom?
As an aside, I always thought Juliette’s character was a salute to feminism. Think of it this way, Juliette is a Veterinarian, they are highly educated and make big bucks, she owns her own home, and Nick was sort of her boy-toy at first. Think about it, the series seemed to open that way in terms of the relationship, and let’s face it, a Veterinarian means Juliette had brains and Nick is a cop, it is a known fact that cops are selected for lower IQs (see reference below) It seems to me Juliette was slumming, hence her perennial bitchy attitude. She always came across to me as a well to do snob with her blue collar boyfriend.
Reference:
Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
I'm glad the question of the house has been brought up. I understood in the earlier episodes that this was Juliette's house and Nick moved in with her. But I could swear that in one of the episodes this very year, Hank referred to it as 'Nick's house'.
The possibility of Juliette as a feminist is an interesting one, especially comparing her to someone like Rosalie. Nothing was ever given to Juliette. She earned and lived on her own terms. Rosalie, on the other hand, lives by what was given to her. Both women had a shot at marriage; Juliette refused, Rosalie accepted. I can see Juliette as a feminist.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - Karai9 - 05-16-2015
(05-16-2015, 04:47 AM)Lou Wrote:(05-16-2015, 12:55 AM)Gaultheria Wrote: The finale felt mechanical to me. It was all about dealing with plotlines that had already been introduced, and a finale has to do that, but I thought it should have given us (and the main characters) something new to wonder about, to keep interest going over the summer.
I thought Chavez pretty much did that. Not to mention the King of the Royals is dead and Meisner has Diana. And now thanks to some of the guys here in the forum I now wonder if Juliette is really dead.
I found the finally very enjoyable. They really pushed Nick into a different space with not only the deaths but even with the other perceived failures. I think he was so motivated to get Adalind's child back to rectify the wrong they did in taking her away in the first place. Now that he's about to be a dad he can probably relate to how it must feel having your child wrenched away from you and denied any help in finding her back. Not that it excuses what Adalind did but it was wrong on their part and did push her into drastic measures and I know he acknowledges that. But he failed there and had to deliver the news to her as she tries to hold back tears.
I also like how they are slowly building the connection between the two of them. When Nick came to Bud's to ask her for help, not only was she ready to help and followed his instructions promptly but when he told Trubel the kid was his, there was nothing but "It's mine" as though that is all that matters now.
And after she did her part to start the investigation, he told her that she did good. Unlike any of his other friends he knows she needs the approval from him. She in turns tries to reciprocate by offering her condolences which he's not sure what to do with coming from her but acknowledges it as the gesture it is. She not really all bad just an incredibly vindictive bitch usually at the behest of a royal, whether Sean, Eric or Victor. I think by definition a hexenbiest aligned with a royal is more wicked that one who flies solo like Elizabeth or Henrietta who are obviously quite powerful. A hexenbiest on the Grimm team shouldn't be any more different than a blutbad helping a Grimm. She can be put to good use if she feels useful and at least liked. She always had to work for any approval from anyone, her mom, Sean, Eric, Victor. If she finds people can like her as a person, a human without all the bells and whistles, she might be less inclined to stab people in the back.
Next I was really moved by the level sympathy and eagerness to help coming from Wu. He was really feeling it for Nick. I think the poor guy was trying to wrap his head around what kind of space must Nick been in right now and it showed, he was really worried for him. He couldn't see himself not doing his part all the way.
As for Trubel, I think I know what's going on with her. I mean look at her, she comes back confident, we'll dressed, she seems okay both mentally and financially. I think she decided to go back to Chavez and works for her (for pay) as an elite agent to take down corrupt wesen(like Weston Stewart from the inside) I don't think she wants her friends to know though, hence trying to ignore the call. I think she may have called Chavez to arrest Juliet, but had to take things into her own hands when she heard the crashing in the house knowing Nick was in mortal danger.
I don't think Chavez is bad I think she represents a more formal Alliance between upstanding wesen and Grimms. It's practically like the setup Renard has with Nick especially before Nick knew he knew.
Trubel is like Chavez's Grimm who can go around the law to take corrupt wesen down.
It will be interesting to see how that plays out especially when Chavez finds that Nick is a Grimm as well.
I don't think he'll be interested though , I believe have pushed to appoint where his friend have to put him on suicide watch. His soon to be born kid may represent the only person who can bring him back from the brink. The writers said the goal in killing Juliet and his mother was a calculated move to put him in this mind space. I can easily see his son being the only person who can put a smile on his face after this.
I really hope they keep exploring this because I think it going to be interesting.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - sasquatch - 05-16-2015
After reading various comments around the place a lot of people say they don't know who the call was from that Trubel got. Straight away I knew it was Chavez. I'm curious how many else realised it was Chavez at the time?