(06-22-2015, 08:32 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(06-22-2015, 08:23 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: both but she may be harder on herself than Nick. As Nick knows he's the cause but she knows all she did. As in the dead across the street etc.

Nick was holding her as she was dying. In my opinion, he already forgave her. If not, he would have let her die without going near her.

(06-22-2015, 09:42 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: Certainly Nick still loves Juliette and I think that if she come back in seasson 5 as normal Juliette, Nick would forgive her... But this doens't mean that they would stay togther. Many things happenend and both of them are not same anymore.

Nick would be afraid to stay with Juliette and something igual or worst happend again. Juliette would have hard times to deal with the memories of everything that happend including Adelaind's baby.

I am one of the fans that before the trailler being burned wanted Juliette and Nick to stay together. But now, independently of what I would want or spect, I can't see space for them anymore. The writers can't simply write it as if nothing had happened... As Kenneth told / asked to Juliette once (and for me, this sentence was a subliminal message from the writers about their intenstions)... Juliette-hexanbiest burned so many bridges that I think even to the normal Juliette it would be hard to go all the way back... (or to Nick go all the way ahead).

(06-21-2015, 02:25 PM)irukandji Wrote: I think this would be true if the series worked within the normal parameters that we are all familiar with regarding police and criminals. In other words, we expect the police to protect the innocent and bring the criminals to justice. Grimm doesn't work within those parameters. In Cry Havoc, Kenneth wasn't brought to justice. He was murdered and then the crime scene was manipulated to make it appear as though he was Jack the Ripper. While Grimm is about crime fighting, I often see it as the main characters taking whatever actions they have to in order to protect themselves.

(06-22-2015, 11:17 PM)izzy Wrote: And this is different than how police normally operate how? In the past I trained Leos, have relatives, and close associates who are civilian law enforcement, all I can say is throwaways are not unknown and the brotherhood of the badge is strong. I understand why it is that way, but it is not right.

I laugh at the flagrant violation of rights on Grimm (i.e. no warrant, no probable cause, no true hot pursuit) but I do not find the cover-up mentality that unrealistic.

(06-23-2015, 04:49 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(06-22-2015, 11:17 PM)izzy Wrote: And this is different than how police normally operate how? In the past I trained Leos, have relatives, and close associates who are civilian law enforcement, all I can say is throwaways are not unknown and the brotherhood of the badge is strong. I understand why it is that way, but it is not right.

I laugh at the flagrant violation of rights on Grimm (i.e. no warrant, no probable cause, no true hot pursuit) but I do not find the cover-up mentality that unrealistic.

So with your background in law enforcement, would you classify yourself as corrupt? What about the Leos, relatives and close associates? Once cops become corrupt are they always corrupt?

(06-23-2015, 04:49 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(06-22-2015, 11:17 PM)izzy Wrote: And this is different than how police normally operate how? In the past I trained Leos, have relatives, and close associates who are civilian law enforcement, all I can say is throwaways are not unknown and the brotherhood of the badge is strong. I understand why it is that way, but it is not right.

I laugh at the flagrant violation of rights on Grimm (i.e. no warrant, no probable cause, no true hot pursuit) but I do not find the cover-up mentality that unrealistic.

So with your background in law enforcement, would you classify yourself as corrupt? What about the Leos, relatives and close associates? Once cops become corrupt are they always corrupt?

(06-23-2015, 06:36 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:

(06-23-2015, 04:49 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(06-22-2015, 11:17 PM)izzy Wrote: And this is different than how police normally operate how? In the past I trained Leos, have relatives, and close associates who are civilian law enforcement, all I can say is throwaways are not unknown and the brotherhood of the badge is strong. I understand why it is that way, but it is not right.

I laugh at the flagrant violation of rights on Grimm (i.e. no warrant, no probable cause, no true hot pursuit) but I do not find the cover-up mentality that unrealistic.

So with your background in law enforcement, would you classify yourself as corrupt? What about the Leos, relatives and close associates? Once cops become corrupt are they always corrupt?

I will play the devil's advocate here.
Let's consider that Nick trusts 100% of the law system. To the system work correctly the system needs as much information as possible to prove guilty or not guilty. Now let's take Sean and the Jack case. How would they give to the law system the info about the Jack possession? Without this information a supposed Sean judgment would be unfair doesn't matter the result.
As the system would not accept this info, they would need to create a like prove, a mean something like a psychological document saying Sean was not acting by him self. In this case the system would be being manipulate since the info they get is not the real one.

I remember an episode of a girl the were some kind of bat. In that episode Nick took the girl to the system. But the created some proves, like an instrument that creates an ultrasonic sound. If he didn't that the girl would get free.

Grimm is not a CSI show where they investigate the crimes until the last small prove. So in the world of Grimm I can't see they acting 100% in the system... Everyone would have to know about the weeks for this to work.

About Kenneth, Nick was not acting as a cop, so he can be blamed for acting out of the law. But I see the royals plot as a war. In this case they had a battle and Kenneth died in process. No need for law system.

For all of this I think is not fair with the show to want a 100% system trust simply because Grimm is not about it. It is out of the context. Grimm would be another show with another context for this to happen.

just to conclude, if we apply to others characters the same rule you want to apply to Nick and Grimm...
Batman is a rich man that takes justice is his own hands... He is jot a hero.
The same can be said about iron man...
Superman is not a cop... So he is not a hero also... Just an alien that see the human kind as a bunch of child that needs the protection of a stronger one.
I could write about others "pseudo-heros" that acts out of the system but inside their context things works.

---

(06-23-2015, 04:49 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(06-22-2015, 11:17 PM)izzy Wrote: And this is different than how police normally operate how? In the past I trained Leos, have relatives, and close associates who are civilian law enforcement, all I can say is throwaways are not unknown and the brotherhood of the badge is strong. I understand why it is that way, but it is not right.

I laugh at the flagrant violation of rights on Grimm (i.e. no warrant, no probable cause, no true hot pursuit) but I do not find the cover-up mentality that unrealistic.

So with your background in law enforcement, would you classify yourself as corrupt? What about the Leos, relatives and close associates? Once cops become corrupt are they always corrupt?

I will play the devil's advocate here.
Let's consider that Nick trusts 100% of the law system. To the system work correctly the system needs as much information as possible to prove guilty or not guilty. Now let's take Sean and the Jack case. How would they give to the law system the info about the Jack possession? Without this information a supposed Sean judgment would be unfair doesn't matter the result.
As the system would not accept this info, they would need to create a like prove, a mean something like a psychological document saying Sean was not acting by him self. In this case the system would be being manipulate since the info they get is not the real one.

I remember an episode of a girl the were some kind of bat. In that episode Nick took the girl to the system. But the created some proves, like an instrument that creates an ultrasonic sound. If he didn't that the girl would get free.

Grimm is not a CSI show where they investigate the crimes until the last small prove. So in the world of Grimm I can't see they acting 100% in the system... Everyone would have to know about the weeks for this to work.

About Kenneth, Nick was not acting as a cop, so he can be blamed for acting out of the law. But I see the royals plot as a war. In this case they had a battle and Kenneth died in process. No need for law system.

For all of this I think is not fair with the show to want a 100% system trust simply because Grimm is not about it. It is out of the context. Grimm would be another show with another context for this to happen.

just to conclude, if we apply to others characters the same rule you want to apply to Nick and Grimm...
Batman is a rich man that takes justice is his own hands... He is jot a hero.
The same can be said about iron man...
Superman is not a cop... So he is not a hero also... Just an alien that see the human kind as a bunch of child that needs the protection of a stronger one.
I could write about others "pseudo-heros" that acts out of the system but inside their context things works.

(06-23-2015, 06:42 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(06-23-2015, 06:36 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:

(06-23-2015, 04:49 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(06-22-2015, 11:17 PM)izzy Wrote: And this is different than how police normally operate how? In the past I trained Leos, have relatives, and close associates who are civilian law enforcement, all I can say is throwaways are not unknown and the brotherhood of the badge is strong. I understand why it is that way, but it is not right.

I laugh at the flagrant violation of rights on Grimm (i.e. no warrant, no probable cause, no true hot pursuit) but I do not find the cover-up mentality that unrealistic.

So with your background in law enforcement, would you classify yourself as corrupt? What about the Leos, relatives and close associates? Once cops become corrupt are they always corrupt?

I will play the devil's advocate here.
Let's consider that Nick trusts 100% of the law system. To the system work correctly the system needs as much information as possible to prove guilty or not guilty. Now let's take Sean and the Jack case. How would they give to the law system the info about the Jack possession? Without this information a supposed Sean judgment would be unfair doesn't matter the result.
As the system would not accept this info, they would need to create a like prove, a mean something like a psychological document saying Sean was not acting by him self. In this case the system would be being manipulate since the info they get is not the real one.

I remember an episode of a girl the were some kind of bat. In that episode Nick took the girl to the system. But the created some proves, like an instrument that creates an ultrasonic sound. If he didn't that the girl would get free.

Grimm is not a CSI show where they investigate the crimes until the last small prove. So in the world of Grimm I can't see they acting 100% in the system... Everyone would have to know about the weeks for this to work.

About Kenneth, Nick was not acting as a cop, so he can be blamed for acting out of the law. But I see the royals plot as a war. In this case they had a battle and Kenneth died in process. No need for law system.

For all of this I think is not fair with the show to want a 100% system trust simply because Grimm is not about it. It is out of the context. Grimm would be another show with another context for this to happen.

just to conclude, if we apply to others characters the same rule you want to apply to Nick and Grimm...
Batman is a rich man that takes justice is his own hands... He is jot a hero.
The same can be said about iron man...
Superman is not a cop... So he is not a hero also... Just an alien that see the human kind as a bunch of child that needs the protection of a stronger one.
I could write about others "pseudo-heros" that acts out of the system but inside their context things works.

---

(06-23-2015, 04:49 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(06-22-2015, 11:17 PM)izzy Wrote: And this is different than how police normally operate how? In the past I trained Leos, have relatives, and close associates who are civilian law enforcement, all I can say is throwaways are not unknown and the brotherhood of the badge is strong. I understand why it is that way, but it is not right.

I laugh at the flagrant violation of rights on Grimm (i.e. no warrant, no probable cause, no true hot pursuit) but I do not find the cover-up mentality that unrealistic.

So with your background in law enforcement, would you classify yourself as corrupt? What about the Leos, relatives and close associates? Once cops become corrupt are they always corrupt?

I will play the devil's advocate here.
Let's consider that Nick trusts 100% of the law system. To the system work correctly the system needs as much information as possible to prove guilty or not guilty. Now let's take Sean and the Jack case. How would they give to the law system the info about the Jack possession? Without this information a supposed Sean judgment would be unfair doesn't matter the result.
As the system would not accept this info, they would need to create a like prove, a mean something like a psychological document saying Sean was not acting by him self. In this case the system would be being manipulate since the info they get is not the real one.

I remember an episode of a girl the were some kind of bat. In that episode Nick took the girl to the system. But the created some proves, like an instrument that creates an ultrasonic sound. If he didn't that the girl would get free.

Grimm is not a CSI show where they investigate the crimes until the last small prove. So in the world of Grimm I can't see they acting 100% in the system... Everyone would have to know about the weeks for this to work.

About Kenneth, Nick was not acting as a cop, so he can be blamed for acting out of the law. But I see the royals plot as a war. In this case they had a battle and Kenneth died in process. No need for law system.

For all of this I think is not fair with the show to want a 100% system trust simply because Grimm is not about it. It is out of the context. Grimm would be another show with another context for this to happen.

just to conclude, if we apply to others characters the same rule you want to apply to Nick and Grimm...
Batman is a rich man that takes justice is his own hands... He is jot a hero.
The same can be said about iron man...
Superman is not a cop... So he is not a hero also... Just an alien that see the human kind as a bunch of child that needs the protection of a stronger one.
I could write about others "pseudo-heros" that acts out of the system but inside their context things works.

So are you saying Nick and Hank operate within the bounds of the law?

(06-23-2015, 06:59 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: I would say that wesen world is bigger than the law since the law system doesn't know about them.
In this context Nick and Hank tries to operate as much as possible inside the bounds of the law.

Just to be clear. The point here is context. The CSI show for example can't act this way because they would be out of the context. So my argues would be completely different if the talk here was a CSI like show.

(06-23-2015, 07:04 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(06-23-2015, 06:59 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: I would say that wesen world is bigger than the law since the law system doesn't know about them.
In this context Nick and Hank tries to operate as much as possible inside the bounds of the law.

Just to be clear. The point here is context. The CSI show for example can't act this way because they would be out of the context. So my argues would be completely different if the talk here was a CSI like show.

You say Nick and Hank try to operate as much as possible inside the bounds of the law. How?