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+---- Thread: S4E18 - Mishipeshu (/Thread-S4E18-Mishipeshu)
RE: S4E18 - Mishipeshu - speakeasy - 04-26-2015
(04-26-2015, 09:31 AM)Kathryn Wooten Wrote:(04-23-2015, 01:48 PM)speakeasy Wrote:(04-23-2015, 09:38 AM)droid327 Wrote:(04-19-2015, 09:06 AM)speakeasy Wrote: And we are told by Renard that most crime is wesen-related in most places.
This line really jumped out at me when I was watching it....most crime? So if there were no Wesen, crime would be significantly reduced?
That sounded too deliberate to merely be casual hyperbole...it sounds like they're setting up some kind of "The Royals were Right" storyline where Nick questions whether there's something to the old-school Grimm style, that the "human" laws of cops he's always enforced are really just a façade and its the Grimm work that really goes after the troublemakers and victimizers in society.
I hadn't approached Renard's statement from that perspective (it's why I almost always get something out of everything we post here.) Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you're on to something, then the Wesen Council is much more important than I have been thinking - and I've always thought they were very powerful. On the other hand, those who would suggest they're not doing such a great job at policing their own could not be accused of exaggeration either. I really am pulling for an alliance between Nick and them.
The central theme of your suggested storyline seems to be Nick's struggle to decide if he is using too soft an approach to his duties as a Grimm, whether he has too democratic an attitude regarding his handling of wesen. Some traits that keep Nick a hero in my mind are his compassion, humanity, and fair-mindedness. It really seems right that he is an evolved Grimm, a 21st century Grimm who embodies the enlightenment that comes with better awareness. But to question his own methods is a good thing, too, imo. Self-examination of his motives is growth, and hopefully, will result in his ultimately accepting the certainty that he's doing it right - treating each wesen encounter on its own terms and not using stereotypical notions as his yardstick.
But, how then are we going to deal with the possibility that unknown to most society, wesen are the cause of most criminal activity. That is an astounding proposition and is flabbergasting in its significance. I'm hoping we will learn something in the next few episodes that takes the air out of that balloon.
What I gathered from the scenes is that Renard was very agitated by what is happening to him the bleeding wounds the horrific pain, I just saw Renard just throwing the percentage out there.
It's been suggested that Renard was messing with Wu's mind when he tossed out the remark. Admittedly he probably was distracted by his bleeding/possession problem. That's more or less what you're saying.
But why would the writers put the line in Wu's dialog in the first place? Perhaps, as has also been suggested, it was a nod by the writers to the fans that they are acknowledging the glaring plot hole of why so many weird wesen crimes occur in Portland without attracting the attention of the rest of the country. I don't recall them doing something like that before, but maybe they have. If it meant nothing more than that, it's a momentary blip on the screen and we're back to the business at hand.
On the other hand, it could mean Renard is telling Wu the truth because he's the one who has said (along with Kelly Burkhardt) that the Royals are fomenting civil disorder in every jurisdiction and country, large and small, that they can - as part of their overall plan to seize official authority. Kenneth just made a statement in Iron Hans referring to this concept. He said this wasn't just about a city or a country, it was about everything. He in affect offered her a place in this new order if she joined them, saying that she could be a pawn or a queen.
Now, I don't quite know how this works into their larger plan, but violent types like the Veratt, who work for the families, could be behind some of it. And we know that wesen made up the main armies of the Seven Houses in the past, so they probably want to repeat history in this regard. There's alot missing, though. Like the man said, I've got all the little details worked out, now if I could just think of the main points.
RE: S4E18 - Mishipeshu - syscrash - 04-26-2015
You create conflict. Designate a bad guy wesen. The Royals come in with the final solution.
RE: S4E18 - Mishipeshu - speakeasy - 04-26-2015
(04-26-2015, 02:11 PM)syscrash Wrote: You create conflict. Designate a bad guy wesen. The Royals come in with the final solution.
I'm sure that's the overall plan. I'm just ruminating on how they see it all coming together. Here's what I have so far:
1. They're going to need a charismatic leader, that would be Diana. Because it's imperative to have a figure to attract the people to an idea, to place their trust in, to look to for deliverance. I'm assuming the hidden object will impart an enormous sway over the minds of people in the hands of an extraordinarily gifted Royal like Diana.
2. This would have to be a long-term plan which they began implementing long ago. It would require having agents in key places like national and local governments, law-enforcement (including the military), the world banking system, and commerce. They would have to recruit both regular humans and wesen to their cause. That would mean approaching ambitious and power-hungry types who don't let human rights or legal considerations stop them. So the Royals promise wealth, position and power to these individuals in exchange for their loyalty. Then they arrange, either by buying elections, or converting to their cause those already in positions of influence, to have these sleeper cells placed in the positions I outlined above. They are to conduct their offices as usual until it's time to move to grab control.
3. This is a global plan so the unifying threat would have to be global. There must be an common enemy, so the Royals could create an artificial threat like world hunger and propagandize that starving second or third world nations across the world are rising against the so-called free world in the competition for dwindling resources. In reality those involved in this conspiracy in all these countries would be working together to overthrow democratic societies in exchange for restoring the old royal system of rule, with privileges, authority, and power over the masses.
Piece of cake.
Seriously, the seven Royal families are supposed to be attempting to overthrow present forms of governments, so if the writers haven't changed the original premise, it's gotta work on an elaborate scale, maybe something along these lines. Of course, Nick, Renard, the gang, the Resistance, regular wesen citizens, and hopefully the Wesen Council, will never let that happen!
RE: S4E18 - Mishipeshu - wfmyers1207 - 04-27-2015
(04-26-2015, 08:12 PM)speakeasy Wrote:(04-26-2015, 02:11 PM)syscrash Wrote: You create conflict. Designate a bad guy wesen. The Royals come in with the final solution.
I'm sure that's the overall plan. I'm just ruminating on how they see it all coming together. Here's what I have so far:
1. They're going to need a charismatic leader, that would be Diana. Because it's imperative to have a figure to attract the people to an idea, to place their trust in, to look to for deliverance. I'm assuming the hidden object will impart an enormous sway over the minds of people in the hands of an extraordinarily gifted Royal like Diana.
2. This would have to be a long-term plan which they began implementing long ago. It would require having agents in key places like national and local governments, law-enforcement (including the military), the world banking system, and commerce. They would have to recruit both regular humans and wesen to their cause. That would mean approaching ambitious and power-hungry types who don't let human rights or legal considerations stop them. So the Royals promise wealth, position and power to these individuals in exchange for their loyalty. Then they arrange, either by buying elections, or converting to their cause those already in positions of influence, to have these sleeper cells placed in the positions I outlined above. They are to conduct their offices as usual until it's time to move to grab control.
3. This is a global plan so the unifying threat would have to be global. There must be an common enemy, so the Royals could create an artificial threat like world hunger and propagandize that starving second or third world nations across the world are rising against the so-called free world in the competition for dwindling resources. In reality those involved in this conspiracy in all these countries would be working together to overthrow democratic societies in exchange for restoring the old royal system of rule, with privileges, authority, and power over the masses.
Piece of cake.
Back during S1 episode "Cat and Mouse" the resistance leader told Nick, Monroe and Rosalee that the Royals were behind all sorts of things like the Arab Spring, etc. Using terrorism to destabilize and overthrow regimes is a tried and true method.
There is the possibility of using existing institutions. i.e. The European Union. It is essentially an unaccountable bureaucracy. Control a handful of key high-level positions and you control the EU.
Also, in troubled times people often look back to the "good old days" (which never really existed!) for stability and order. The Royals could use that, selling it as 'tradition' and 'stability'. It has worked before in the real world.
RE: S4E18 - Mishipeshu - Gretel Hanselsister - 04-27-2015
(04-27-2015, 06:51 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: There is the possibility of using existing institutions. i.e. The European Union. For "Grimm", the writers made it look like an unaccountable bureaucracy. Control a handful of key high-level positions and you control the EU.
I just fixed it for you. No need to thank me
.
RE: S4E18 - Mishipeshu - speakeasy - 04-27-2015
(04-27-2015, 06:51 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: Back during S1 episode "Cat and Mouse" the resistance leader told Nick, Monroe and Rosalee that the Royals were behind all sorts of things like the Arab Spring, etc. Using terrorism to destabilize and overthrow regimes is a tried and true method.
Just so. That was Ian Harmon, wish we could see more of him, forgot about that important speech, thanks for pointing that out.
Nick wasn't very interested in what he had to say at the time; had too much immediate trouble on his hands, and it was early in the show's history. So if we consider the bigger picture and Kenneth's most recent remarks about the political aims of the families, it could be connected to Renard's statement about the percentage of wesen-related crime in most areas. Or not; it could just mean that generally speaking, some wesen like to misbehave more than the rest of us!
RE: S4E18 - Mishipeshu - syscrash - 04-27-2015
(04-27-2015, 01:54 PM)speakeasy Wrote:Crimes are usually taking advantage of an opportunity. Wesen powers give you more opportunities than normal people.(04-27-2015, 06:51 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: Back during S1 episode "Cat and Mouse" the resistance leader told Nick, Monroe and Rosalee that the Royals were behind all sorts of things like the Arab Spring, etc. Using terrorism to destabilize and overthrow regimes is a tried and true method.
Just so. That was Ian Harmon, wish we could see more of him, forgot about that important speech, thanks for pointing that out.
So if we consider the bigger picture and Kenneth's most recent remarks about the political aims of the families, it could be connected to Renard's statement about the percentage of wesen-related crime in most areas. Or not; it could just mean that generally speaking, some wesen like to misbehave more than the rest of us!
RE: S4E18 - Mishipeshu - wfmyers1207 - 04-28-2015
(04-27-2015, 09:12 AM)Gretel Hanselsister Wrote:(04-27-2015, 06:51 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: There is the possibility of using existing institutions. i.e. The European Union. For "Grimm", the writers made it look like an unaccountable bureaucracy. Control a handful of key high-level positions and you control the EU.
I just fixed it for you. No need to thank me
I stand by my original statement. The EU is in fact an unaccountable bureaucracy!
