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+--- Thread: Renard, Revelation and Revenge (/Thread-Renard-Revelation-and-Revenge)
RE: Renard, Revelation and Revenge - irukandji - 08-05-2015
(08-05-2015, 04:19 AM)Hexenadler Wrote:(08-04-2015, 02:07 PM)irukandji Wrote: I don't call her decision making skills into question at all. She made the decision to betray Kelly. She made the decision to sleep with Sean. I don't see what one has to do with the other.
Dude. Kelly is DEAD because of that decision. Both acts stem from the same conscience-free mindset. I'm a little concerned about how you're basically glossing over a very disturbing act of malice.
And Juliette is also DEAD because of that decision. You keep focusing on Kelly like she was some kind hearted little old lady who knitted, made cookies, and took in wayward children. She wasn't. She participated in the kidnapping of a supposedly valuable baby. She's a mercenary, kidnapper, killer and probably a host of other unsavory things. She left her own son in care of another. I find that the worst crime of all. Both women made conscious decisions. Both womens' decisions ended their lives.
Sean is not to blame for sleeping with Juliette. According to the consensus, she was in her right mind when she offered. All he did was accept.
Now if you believe Juliette was not in her right mind, I'd like to read your arguments to that effect.
RE: Renard, Revelation and Revenge - wfmyers1207 - 08-05-2015
(08-05-2015, 06:28 AM)irukandji Wrote:(08-05-2015, 04:19 AM)Hexenadler Wrote:(08-04-2015, 02:07 PM)irukandji Wrote: I don't call her decision making skills into question at all. She made the decision to betray Kelly. She made the decision to sleep with Sean. I don't see what one has to do with the other.
Dude. Kelly is DEAD because of that decision. Both acts stem from the same conscience-free mindset. I'm a little concerned about how you're basically glossing over a very disturbing act of malice.
And Juliette is also DEAD because of that decision. You keep focusing on Kelly like she was some kind hearted little old lady who knitted, made cookies, and took in wayward children. She wasn't. She participated in the kidnapping of a supposedly valuable baby. She's a mercenary, kidnapper, killer and probably a host of other unsavory things. She left her own son in care of another. I find that the worst crime of all. Both women made conscious decisions. Both womens' decisions ended their lives.
Sean is not to blame for sleeping with Juliette. According to the consensus, she was in her right mind when she offered. All he did was accept.
Now if you believe Juliette was not in her right mind, I'd like to read your arguments to that effect.
I happen to think Juliette was not in her right mind. Imagine, if you will, that a person actually is transformed in the way Juliette was. That would be like someone whacking you full of meth, LSD and heroin at the same time! Your brain would be scrambled! Which is exactly like Juliette acted. An addict on way to much of what they were using!
RE: Renard, Revelation and Revenge - New Guy - 08-05-2015
Hi Grimm Fans,
Thanks to all of you for your comments. Some have proposed that Juliette had better "chemistry" with Renard than with Nick. This scene from 2.13 provides insight into the Renard and Juliette chemistry:
http://www.nbc.com/grimm/video/crazy-in-love/n33604?onid=146231#vc146231=17
Later in that same episode, Nick and Renard "Face Off" and Nick would have pummelled him were it not for the magic key.
Recall in 4.22 how Kenneth taunted nick about killing Kelly and having sex with Juliette? Bad idea Kenny. His Royal arrogance just increased the intensity of Nick's vengeance.
So will the Royal Captain Renard Prince of Arrogance feel the need to taunt Nick about Juliette? I look forward to Face Off II.
New Guy
RE: Renard, Revelation and Revenge - irukandji - 08-06-2015
(08-05-2015, 10:02 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: I happen to think Juliette was not in her right mind. Imagine, if you will, that a person actually is transformed in the way Juliette was. That would be like someone whacking you full of meth, LSD and heroin at the same time! Your brain would be scrambled! Which is exactly like Juliette acted. An addict on way to much of what they were using!
So then do you see her as addicted to the hexenbiest?
RE: Renard, Revelation and Revenge - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 08-07-2015
(08-05-2015, 10:02 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote:(08-05-2015, 06:28 AM)irukandji Wrote:(08-05-2015, 04:19 AM)Hexenadler Wrote:(08-04-2015, 02:07 PM)irukandji Wrote: I don't call her decision making skills into question at all. She made the decision to betray Kelly. She made the decision to sleep with Sean. I don't see what one has to do with the other.
Dude. Kelly is DEAD because of that decision. Both acts stem from the same conscience-free mindset. I'm a little concerned about how you're basically glossing over a very disturbing act of malice.
And Juliette is also DEAD because of that decision. You keep focusing on Kelly like she was some kind hearted little old lady who knitted, made cookies, and took in wayward children. She wasn't. She participated in the kidnapping of a supposedly valuable baby. She's a mercenary, kidnapper, killer and probably a host of other unsavory things. She left her own son in care of another. I find that the worst crime of all. Both women made conscious decisions. Both womens' decisions ended their lives.
Sean is not to blame for sleeping with Juliette. According to the consensus, she was in her right mind when she offered. All he did was accept.
Now if you believe Juliette was not in her right mind, I'd like to read your arguments to that effect.
I happen to think Juliette was not in her right mind. Imagine, if you will, that a person actually is transformed in the way Juliette was. That would be like someone whacking you full of meth, LSD and heroin at the same time! Your brain would be scrambled! Which is exactly like Juliette acted. An addict on way to much of what they were using!
wfmyers1207, I agree with on that.
I have posted in other threads that I believe all hexabiests / zauberbiest are addicted to power. That is why hexabiests have a thing with royals (Elizabeth, Adelaind, Juliette from those we know).
I think that Juliette became so addicted to the power of being a hexanbiest that she did everything to keep that power and to get closer to people with power (the royals). Her last action was setting up the killing of Kelly and returning to the house to finish Nick. That is my two cents.
RE: Renard, Revelation and Revenge - irukandji - 08-10-2015
Should Renard tell Nick he slept with Juliette?
RE: Renard, Revelation and Revenge - wfmyers1207 - 08-10-2015
(08-10-2015, 10:41 AM)irukandji Wrote: Should Renard tell Nick he slept with Juliette?
As has been mentioned in other threads, Nick is going to be in a very dark place after all that has happened. Telling a man in that kind of mood that you shagged the love of his life might be considered counter intuitive if personal survival is a desirable option!
RE: Renard, Revelation and Revenge - irukandji - 08-10-2015
Maybe part of the reason Nick's going to that dark place is because he knows Juliette didn't love him.
RE: Renard, Revelation and Revenge - New Guy - 08-10-2015
(08-10-2015, 11:18 AM)irukandji Wrote: Maybe part of the reason Nick's going to that dark place is because he knows Juliette didn't love him.Hi Irukandji,
This Forum has caused me to rethink the first 4 seasons. I still believe that Nick’s love for Juliette was pure and would have been permanent. But Juliette just said her lines “I love you.” Her face was vacant of expression. I wrote it off as poor acting, but now believe she did not love Nick. Why a woman her age would move in with a guy she did not love and want to marry is beyond me.
I believe it was Adalind’s mother (Catherine) who brewed up the kiss potion in 2.02 that caused the Renard/Juliette attraction spell. There was a hate sex scene where Juliette and Renard kiss then fight then she takes his gun and shoots up the house. Nick knows what happened. Nick and Renard had a “Face-Off” in 2.13. Rosalee concocts a “cure potion,” but did it work?
Season 4 has Nick and Juliette’s relationship severely tested. In 4.17 Juliette gets Renard’s help to kill Adalind and decides to celebrate with more hate sex in the “this will hurt” scene. The objectives of their fornication were so Renard could demonstrate his total lack of regard for Nick and satisfy his arrogance and ego. Juliette wanted to demonstrate sexually that Nick meant nothing to her. There was no love between Renard and Juliette other than something like a boar hog with a sow in heat. They were both disgusting.
Renard was instrumental in leading Juliette down a path of moral depravity. Nick is justified to even the score by resuming the face-off and showing the rodent Renard major Grimm revenge.
New Guy
RE: Renard, Revelation and Revenge - irukandji - 08-10-2015
Well, I don't know that his love was all that pure, New Guy. He fell pretty hard for the muse. Also, there was a pretty passionate kiss between him and Henrietta.