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+--- Thread: When did Adalind start to fall in love (/Thread-When-did-Adalind-start-to-fall-in-love)
RE: When did Adalind start to fall in love - MarylikesGrimm - 12-28-2016
(12-28-2016, 08:21 PM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:Every time people list reasons for why Kelly should not have taken Diana. Not once do they mentioned the threat of death. We have now twice seen the Royals threaten death for interfering.
Mom Kelly was killed by the Royals who set her up anyway. Why should Juliette have not expected mom Kelly to die when they took Diana from her based on your comments?
For the same reason the Royals did not kill Sean and Adalind.
Royals had sent people to kill Sean in the past and Sean fought and won.
Mom Kelly promised Sean she would fight to the death to protect Diana. It makes complete sense what happen and Royals have a standing policy of beheading GRIMMS too.
Nick had told Adalind that baby Kelly was hers and he was just offering to let them live with him. Until baby Kelly was gone, Nick did not realize how much it would hurt him.
RE: When did Adalind start to fall in love - Robyn - 12-28-2016
(12-28-2016, 07:59 PM)syscrash Wrote: You suggested that Adalind & Diana's combined powers would have kept them safe. their combined powers did not do so well in Vienna.No, syscrash, I did not.
I said: Whether Adalind & Diana’s combined powers would have kept them safe is anyone’s guess. But that’s all it is, a guess.
(12-28-2016, 07:59 PM)syscrash Wrote: Every time people list reasons for why Kelly should not have taken Diana. Not once do they mentioned the threat of death.Death came to Portland. Kelly is dead. For all intents and purposes, Juliette is dead. Residents in Nick’s neighborhood who had nothing to do with Diana are dead. And if not for the Resistance, the Royals would have Diana - the very reason Kelly insisted she had to take her.
Once Kelly & Nick gave themselves authority over Diana they were 100% responsible for her. That means Kelly doesn’t stroll into Portland with Diana without first verifying it’s safe. And that means when Nick learned the Royals had Diana, she was the first priority, not avenging his mother’s death.
(12-28-2016, 07:59 PM)syscrash Wrote: It is one thing to take a moral point of view, but at the expense of even considering the danger.This is not placing a moral point of view above any consideration of danger. This is simply putting responsibility where it belongs. Kelly & Nick did not go to Renard’s apartment to keep him & Adalind safe. They went because Kelly wanted Diana and was willing to kill to get her. So what if Renard was beat up? Kelly didn’t take Diana to protect Renard. Why would she protect someone she was willing to kill to get Diana? So what if Adalind had to seek protection from Nick? Again, he & Kelly didn’t go to Renard’s to protect anyone. Nick would not have taken Adalind under his protection had she not been pregnant with his child, and the reality is, she was pregnant with his child because Kelly & Nick took Diana.
(12-28-2016, 07:59 PM)syscrash Wrote: Why is it wrong for Sean to send Diana away to protect her.Renard did not send Diana away to protect her. He sent Diana away to protect himself and prevent the Royals from having her. Renard knew in the first S5 episode that Meisner took Diana from the Royals, but he didn’t attempt to convince or coerce Meisner for access to her. He didn’t pursue getting Diana until creating a family image benefited his aspirations.
(12-28-2016, 07:59 PM)syscrash Wrote: But it is OK for Adalind to take Kelly away for protection. The arguments all say because Adalind is the mother without consideration of the fathers.Has nothing to do with one parent receiving consideration over another. I won’t argue that Adalind made the best decision, because if she feared Nick would work against her getting Diana back she shouldn’t have stayed with him as long as she did. Regardless, Adalind’s method was totally different than his and Kelly’s. Adalind left a letter explaining what she was doing and why she believed she had to and Nick admitted Adalind didn’t have a choice. In contrast, Kelly and Nick tricked Adalind then lied to her that Viktor had her daughter.
Considering the devastation that followed, I don't see any logic in thinking Kelly and Nick made a rational or wise decision. Without their interference, the only thing that might have happened is Adalind and Diana wouldn't have survived. But I can't imagine any of the others caring about that. They didn't care that the Royals had Diana at the end of S4. And even if the Royals would have succeeded in taking Diana from Adalind, Kelly didn't prevent that by taking Diana. The Royals got Diana by taking her from Kelly, and it was the Resistance, not Kelly, who ultimately kept Diana from the Royals.
RE: When did Adalind start to fall in love - syscrash - 12-28-2016
Quote:Death came to Portland. Kelly is dead. For all intents and purposes, Juliette is dead. Residents in Nick’s neighborhood who had nothing to do with Diana are dead. And if not for the Resistance, the Royals would have Diana - the very reason Kelly insisted she had to take her.you are conflating Kelly actions of coming back to Portland with the reason for Kelly taking Diana in the first place. One has nothing to do with the other.
Once Kelly & Nick gave themselves authority over Diana they were 100% responsible for her. That means Kelly doesn’t stroll into Portland with Diana without first verifying it’s safe. And that means when Nick learned the Royals had Diana, she was the first priority, not avenging his mother’s death.
taking Kelly was a preventive measure. A solution involving the entire group. Kelly coming back was her decision alone. I very dumb choice considering Kelly left because of the situation she was coming back to.
Quote:This is not placing a moral point of view above any consideration of danger. This is simply putting responsibility where it belongs. Kelly & Nick did not go to Renard’s apartment to keep him & Adalind safe. They went because Kelly wanted Diana and was willing to kill to get her. So what if Renard was beat up? Kelly didn’t take Diana to protect Renard. Why would she protect someone she was willing to kill to get Diana? So what if Adalind had to seek protection from Nick? Again, he & Kelly didn’t go to Renard’s to protect anyone. Nick would not have taken Adalind under his protection had she not been pregnant with his child, and the reality is, she was pregnant with his child because Kelly & Nick took Diana.I never said Nick and Kelly being at Sean was to protect them. I said Nick and Kelly being at Sean's protected them. I never said Kelly taking Diana was to protect Sean and Adalind. I said Kelly taking Diana protected Sean and Adalind. There is a difference between intent and consequence.
At no time has Diana ever been at danger of being killed. The Royals would never have harmed her. Conrad also would have never harmed Diana. Adalind and Sean it was a different story both time and with Conrad they where threatened with death.
As for Kelly, Conrad is the only one that put him at risk. But even Conrad was willing to give Kelly back for the books. Indicating Kelly death was not a given. Just like you said Sean actions where to protect himself and not Diana. The same was true for Adalind. She was not protecting Diana. Diana was never in danger was never threatened.
Quote:Adalind left a letter explaining what she was doing and why she believed she had toThere was nothing in the letter that explained why she left. It only said she did what she had to do to protect her kids and she did not expect him to understand.
Quote:Without their interference, the only thing that might have happened is Adalind and Diana wouldn't have survived.You mean Adalind and Sean would not have survived. No one has ever had or implied they would do anything to Diana. She is much to valuable.
The resistance never had Diana. Yes there was miscommunication from Sean and then Adalind. But twice the resistance was falsely made the fall guy.
listen to Meisner conversation with Sean. He said Diana is with friends. Viktor hired the resistance to betray the Royals in exchange for Diana. That never happened because Meisner happened to be on the helicopter and prevented the resistance from getting Diana. At the time Meisner was on the helicopter he was working with HW. HW was the friends Meisner was talking about. We know Meisner was with HW because we saw him at the HW compound right after Juliette arrived.
They did care that Diana had got on the helicopter with the King. That is why they risked their lives to attack the mansion. Nick had already avenged his mothers death by killing Kenneth.
RE: When did Adalind start to fall in love - MarylikesGrimm - 12-28-2016
(12-28-2016, 10:54 PM)syscrash Wrote: As for Kelly, Conrad is the only one that put him at risk. But even Conrad was willing to give Kelly back for the books. Indicating Kelly death was not a given.
Conrad could have easily been lying about Kelly. He was using Nick's fear to turn the books over right away more than anything. Conrad believed that having that family together would change history. He is likely to have known about the prophecy they have been hinting at involving Diana and possibly Kelly. Since Kelly was a baby there was little risk to keeping him yet he could influence Diana by growing up with her.
Quote:It only said she did what she had to do to protect her kids and she did not expect him to understand.
I understand that Adalind means her kids were in danger from the comment above.
Quote: Nick had already avenged his mother's death by killing Kenneth.
He was angry at Juliette too and Juliette even mentioned that to the king.
RE: When did Adalind start to fall in love - syscrash - 12-29-2016
Quote:It only said she did what she had to do to protect her kids and she did not expect him to understand.
I understand that Adalind means her kids were in danger from the comment above.
My point is her message was so vague Nick had no idea what was going on or how they where involved. He was not given any information to let him know did Adalind make a rational decision did she actually have no other choice. I have asked before. If Nick know that Adalind knew BC had Diana and had given her a time limit. Before Eve let him know of the danger. Would he still have the same feeling about her not having a choice.
Had Adalind told Nick she had Sean Diana. They could have stormed the mansion and got her back. There is no way they would have harmed Diana. Unlike Kellly. Once they had Kelly the option of storming the mansion was gone.
Quote:Nick had already avenged his mother's death by killing Kenneth.Nick may have been made at Juliette but not enough to storm the mansion. Diana was the only reason they attacked the place.
He was angry at Juliette too and Juliette even mentioned that to the king.
RE: When did Adalind start to fall in love - MarylikesGrimm - 12-29-2016
[quote='syscrash' pid='39144' dateline='1482997177']
[quote]
They could have stormed the mansion and got her back. There is no way they would have harmed Diana. Unlike Kellly. Once they had Kelly the option of storming the mansion was gone.
Nick may have been made at Juliette but not enough to storm the mansion. Diana was the only reason they attacked the place.
[/quote]
Diana was kept somewhere else until Adalind showed up. HW was very against storming the mansion due to security level not Kelly.
Nick and gang were looking for Juliette just as much and Nick was focused on Juliette.
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Cry_Havoc
Rispoli says Nick got away and that they are looking for him. Kenneth hangs up and asks Juliette where Nick would be, and she tells him he's looking for her.
Nick reports back to Hank and Wu that Juliette is with the Royals and that they have Adalind's kid. Nick tells Wu to trace Juliette's phone, and Nick and Hank agree that they are going to need Trubel's help to deal with Juliette.
Trubel asks Nick, "If we do find Juliette, what do you want us to do?" Nick replies, "Kill her."
Nick says Juliette isn't getting on the helicopter, runs into the compound, and goes upstairs.
Outside, Juliette, Rispoli, and the King hear the shot as they head to the helicopter, and Rispoli goes back inside. Nick sees them walking towards the helicopter and runs downstairs.
RE: When did Adalind start to fall in love - syscrash - 12-29-2016
Quote:Nick and gang were looking for Juliette too.
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Cry_Havoc
Rispoli says Nick got away and that they are looking for him. Kenneth hangs up and asks Juliette where Nick would be, and she tells him he's looking for her.
Nick reports back to Hank and Wu that Juliette is with the Royals and that they have Adalind's kid. Nick tells Wu to trace Juliette's phone, and Nick and Hank agree that they are going to need Trubel's help to deal with Juliette.
Trubel asks Nick, "If we do find Juliette, what do you want us to do?" Nick replies, "Kill her."
Nick says Juliette isn't getting on the helicopter, runs into the compound, and goes upstairs.
Outside, Juliette, Rispoli, and the King hear the shot as they head to the helicopter, and Rispoli goes back inside. Nick sees them walking towards the helicopter and runs downstairs.
The mission was to get Diana. Since Juliette had Diana he is going to use her to get to Diana. The added reason was they Reason was the royals where responsible for his mother death and kidnapping Diana. That is the other reason for attacking the Mansion.
There is nothing that indicates Nick was mad enough to risk himself and the others to only go after Juliette.
RE: When did Adalind start to fall in love - MarylikesGrimm - 12-29-2016
(12-29-2016, 01:09 AM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:Nick and gang were looking for Juliette too.
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Cry_Havoc
Rispoli says Nick got away and that they are looking for him. Kenneth hangs up and asks Juliette where Nick would be, and she tells him he's looking for her.
Nick reports back to Hank and Wu that Juliette is with the Royals and that they have Adalind's kid. Nick tells Wu to trace Juliette's phone, and Nick and Hank agree that they are going to need Trubel's help to deal with Juliette.
Trubel asks Nick, "If we do find Juliette, what do you want us to do?" Nick replies, "Kill her."
Nick says Juliette isn't getting on the helicopter, runs into the compound, and goes upstairs.
Outside, Juliette, Rispoli, and the King hear the shot as they head to the helicopter, and Rispoli goes back inside. Nick sees them walking towards the helicopter and runs downstairs.
There is nothing that indicates Nick was mad enough to risk himself and the others to only go after Juliette.
Nick was following Juliette not Diana at the compound. He should have stopped the helicopter if Diana is what he wanted.
RE: When did Adalind start to fall in love - Purity - 12-29-2016
(12-29-2016, 01:14 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(12-29-2016, 01:09 AM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:Nick and gang were looking for Juliette too.
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Cry_Havoc
Rispoli says Nick got away and that they are looking for him. Kenneth hangs up and asks Juliette where Nick would be, and she tells him he's looking for her.
Nick reports back to Hank and Wu that Juliette is with the Royals and that they have Adalind's kid. Nick tells Wu to trace Juliette's phone, and Nick and Hank agree that they are going to need Trubel's help to deal with Juliette.
Trubel asks Nick, "If we do find Juliette, what do you want us to do?" Nick replies, "Kill her."
Nick says Juliette isn't getting on the helicopter, runs into the compound, and goes upstairs.
Outside, Juliette, Rispoli, and the King hear the shot as they head to the helicopter, and Rispoli goes back inside. Nick sees them walking towards the helicopter and runs downstairs.
There is nothing that indicates Nick was mad enough to risk himself and the others to only go after Juliette.
Nick was following Juliette not Diana at the compound. He should have stopped the helicopter if Diana is what he wanted.
That Heli took off real fast. there was nothing he could have done. Shooting at it was out of the question, he could kill innocent Diana. Sides, he believed Juliette was in the chopper.
RE: When did Adalind start to fall in love - MarylikesGrimm - 12-29-2016
(12-29-2016, 01:21 AM)Purity Wrote: That Heli took off real fast. there was nothing he could have done. Shooting at it was out of the question, he could kill innocent Diana. Sides, he believed Juliette was in the chopper.
He ran inside to follow Juliette instead of blocking the Heli when he saw it the first time.