I liked it although it wasn't as epic as Crisis on Earth-X last year. I still prefer the method they took last year when they made it kind of like a miniseries or TV movie instead of adhering to each individual show. I understand it was hell on the cast and crew last year which is why they returned to this approach but it was greatly appreciated.
With that out of the way, I'll say that the things that I liked directly led to the things I didn't like.
I liked Oliver and Barry trying to get into each other's shoes. It was a great dynamic and helped to explore both characters even if it was just in superficial ways. They learned more about each other and they put they own personal flair on how they operated with the abilities of the other. Not to mention, Oliver having breakfast with Iris was not as terrible as he was making it out to be but that's just me.
Superman, Batwoman, and Lois Lane were pretty good themselves. They added an interesting dynamic and it was fun to see the regulars interact with them. The CW has found themselves a quality SM and a good Lois so I'm not opposed to them appearing in the future though not too much which I will extrapolate on shortly.
Previously, I mentioned that the things I liked led to the things I disliked. The major one here is the sidelining of Kara. I am so tired of them treating her like a third wheel that's just there because she has a show. They were so enamoured with Oliver as Flash and Barry as GA that they really didn't give much for Kara to do. This combined with the priority SM got led to it feeling like Kara was barely there. They didn't explore her character at all. I get the feeling that they really wanted SM and would've included him without SG if they could've done so. It really seems like they have little to no interest in Kara at all and it's very frustrating to watch since I really like Kara and think she deserves much better than to be treated like an afterthought. That's why I don't want SM around more than he has been.
As for the plot and what it led to, it was enjoyable for what it was but it did feel a bit rushed. The Elseworlds concept wasn't explored all that much and parts 1 and 3 were moving at lightspeed. Only the Arrow episode in Gotham City got a chance to breathe but that's probably because it was really a backdoor pilot.
The supporting characters didn't get much to do outside of Cisco, Caitlin, and Diggle. That's fine because seeing the main three interact was good but there still wasn't enough Kara for my taste. I can also really tell the writers really like Killer Frost since she was in all three episodes and I happen to share that opinion because she's awesome.
The Monitor was decent and I think we'll being seeing him a bit more going forward in all the shows to setup Crisis on Infinite Earths. I hope they take the entire year to keep dropping hints to lay the groundwork for this monumental event. I'm definitely looking forward to it and the Legends and BW getting in on the action.
And one more thing, I know the slowing the Earth's rotation to slow down time was a nod to the Superman movie where he actually reversed Earth's rotation to reverse time but that was really stupid. Barry already has flashtime which slows time to nearly a halt around him. It would've made more sense to use that and he even could've touched Kara to have her enter Flashtime with him since I suspect her stamina would be able to endure it for quite some time and she also has superspeed.
I really enjoyed this crossover a lot especially Barry and Oliver becoming each other it was a lot of fun and I’ve got say I enjoyed Bitsie as Lois she was a bit over the top and a little corny at times but that’s how character is supposed to be, I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing her again but personally as much as I like the actor that plays Superman, personally I feel show sometimes makes him look pretty useless just to make supergirl look better a certainly mind him taking the backseat to Kara that’s the way it’s supossed to be in the arrowverse she’s the star allien not him, just wish they treated Superman with a bit more respect. But I also agree that Kara is also deserves better she to often plays backseat to Oliver and Barry.
Also got say I’ve got back into Arrow this season I really enjoyed the prison stuff though Felicity still rubs me up the wrong way at times.
I get that Superman has been shown to be weaker than Supergirl and that has gotten some fans mad. Personally, I find Green Arrow beating Ra's Al-Ghul far more outrageous but that's just me.
However, just look at how SM was used compared to SG. Oliver and Barry had just met SM yet they traveled to Earth-38 to get him instead of looking for Kara and he read the book that restored reality to normal even though he's not even from their universe. In all honesty, SM and Oliver were the big heroes of this crossover. He also was the first person we saw when they transitioned to Smallville in The Flash episode and the last person we see when leaving Earth-38 in the SG episode. Kara really got a raw deal in this crossover as she usually does.
And you're right about Arrow. It has surprisingly been very good this season. Felicity is still the main thing that can ruin it. It's the curse of the love interests. SG had the same problem because I thought last season started off great until they started focusing on Mon-El again. The Felicity drama continues to be the most annoying thing about the show. It's a shame because Dinah and Laurel have been excellent this season and I also like Wild Dog and the new GA.
I'm surprised they committed to the prison scenes as much as they did. It was much better than Barry being in prison last season. That combined with the Flashforwards have rejuvenated the show.
Superman (surprisingly) did more in this crossover than Supergirl and to balance it out they paid lip service to SG's (the show) mantra of Kara being stronger than Clark, upsetting both sides of the super fence. I know what this show is punting and constantly using Clark to validate Kara and her strength isn't doing her any favours and having Clark around will always devalue her presence however unintended it is. It is her show and I get that with that comes some expectations but they are swimming against the current when Superman is the main guy whose overall power and strengths are beyond question in practically every medium of the mythos and a many super fans are Superman fans first.
The show is leaning on the comic(s) that says due to her being on Krypton longer, she absorbs the solar rays more efficiently but that's never truly translated to her being physically stronger. Not that she's not capable of it but rather Clark's experience, unique circumstances and often how he was raised has always seen him rise above even his own limitations to beat beings that are technically stronger than him. Clark has absorbed the sun the longest so that may count in his favour as well. He's fought Kara when she was at full power and didn't hold back and he still beat her. He's beaten Zod, a seasoned warrior and general who has the same powers as him under the yellow son and has been on Krypton longer than Kara, so for many what they hear on the show goes against what they have seen in comics and movies for nearly a century. It can be argued that the show is basically an Elseworld (of the comic's canon) where Kara is stronger and so forth but that's not going to fly for some who watch the show.
The show is caught in a rock and a hard place where Superman is concerned. I doubt it will ever find a happy balance where everyone will be happy with how their favourite is portrayed.
(01-09-2019, 01:21 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ]Superman (surprisingly) did more in this crossover than Supergirl and to balance it out they paid lip service to SG's (the show) mantra of Kara being stronger than Clark, upsetting both sides of the super fence. I know what this show is punting and constantly using Clark to validate Kara and her strength isn't doing her any favours and having Clark around will always devalue her presence however unintended it is. It is her show and I get that with that comes some expectations but they are swimming against the current when Superman is the main guy whose overall power and strengths are beyond question in practically every medium of the mythos and a many super fans are Superman fans first.
The show is leaning on the comic(s) that says due to her being on Krypton longer, she absorbs the solar rays more efficiently but that's never truly translated to her being physically stronger. Not that she's not capable of it but rather Clark's experience, unique circumstances and often how he was raised has always seen him rise above even his own limitations to beat beings that are technically stronger than him. Clark has absorbed the sun the longest so that may count in his favour as well. He's fought Kara when she was at full power and didn't hold back and he still beat her. He's beaten Zod, a seasoned warrior and general who has the same powers as him under the yellow son and has been on Krypton longer than Kara, so for many what they hear on the show goes against what they have seen in comics and movies for nearly a century. It can be argued that the show is basically an Elseworld (of the comic's canon) where Kara is stronger and so forth but that's not going to fly for some who watch the show.
The show is caught in a rock and a hard place where Superman is concerned. I doubt it will ever find a happy balance where everyone will be happy with how their favorite is portrayed.
It was absolutely lip-service. Superman's role was more important than Kara's and he was absolutely essential to saving the day in a way Kara was not. I'm surprised more people don't recognize it. The problem with SM on the show is that the writers and especially the fans will want him to take priority even though it's her show and she is the Super in this universe. The crossovers get by far the most viewers and they decided to showcase him because of it. This is the reason I hope Batman never makes an appearance. If the noise surrounding Superman is this loud, imagine how much more annoying Batman fanboys will get. We know he can't be second or take a backseat to anyone. That would get really ugly and Batwoman nor Green Arrow deserve it.
You know it would be funny if Black Canary got more focus than GA in a crossover. Isn't she supposed to be a superior fighter compared to Oliver? Some people say she's almost as good as Batman.
Saying SG is stronger than SM is just going to lead people to attack her and I think it's ridiculous. GA might be the best hand-to-hand combatant in the Arrowverse and I don't have a problem with it so people flipping out over Kara being stronger in this continuity gives me second-hand embarrassment. It just shows me how insecure and fragile we males can be especially when people argue he should be stronger due to him being a male and not for the reasons you stated. Their gender really has nothing to do with how powerful they are. The only instance I can think of their gender mattering is when I've seen that Kara's biological makeup allows her to absorb sunlight more efficiently. Even Batman said that this is the reason she will potentially be more powerful than Superman and he said it with certainty.
I will say that it makes sense for Kara to be a better fighter than Clark on the show. Kara has been training with Alex at the DEO while Clark hasn't. Even if she's not stronger, she should be better in hand-to-hand to combat. Kara was training to fight strong beings, including other Kryptonians, and use their strength against them. She was improving as the season went along although Alex noted that Astra let Kara defeat her because she knows Astra is a seasoned warrior who would never leave herself open the way she did. TBH, SM defeating Zod is bit harder to believe than Kara beating him. That's why Superman 2 and Smallville showed him outsmarting Zod rather than defeating him straight-up.
Personally, I wouldn't have made her stronger than SM just yet. I would've preferred them stating that when Crisis on Infinite Earths airs rather than doing it at the end of the second season. It was weird how much they wanted to emphasize it that early on like they felt the need to overcompensate for making a SG show instead of a SM one like they really wanted to in the first place.
Despite the above, I think the most ridiculous line came from Lois and I really think the writers went too far. There's no way I believe that Clark Kent makes more money than Lois Lane in any reality. Nor do I see Lois being okay with it.
True about that Lois line. It's nonsense. She's never earned less than Clark in any incarnation except on this show. Add that to the list of things that some people have against this show.
(01-09-2019, 02:00 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2019, 01:21 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ]Superman (surprisingly) did more in this crossover than Supergirl and to balance it out they paid lip service to SG's (the show) mantra of Kara being stronger than Clark, upsetting both sides of the super fence. I know what this show is punting and constantly using Clark to validate Kara and her strength isn't doing her any favours and having Clark around will always devalue her presence however unintended it is. It is her show and I get that with that comes some expectations but they are swimming against the current when Superman is the main guy whose overall power and strengths are beyond question in practically every medium of the mythos and a many super fans are Superman fans first.
The show is leaning on the comic(s) that says due to her being on Krypton longer, she absorbs the solar rays more efficiently but that's never truly translated to her being physically stronger. Not that she's not capable of it but rather Clark's experience, unique circumstances and often how he was raised has always seen him rise above even his own limitations to beat beings that are technically stronger than him. Clark has absorbed the sun the longest so that may count in his favour as well. He's fought Kara when she was at full power and didn't hold back and he still beat her. He's beaten Zod, a seasoned warrior and general who has the same powers as him under the yellow son and has been on Krypton longer than Kara, so for many what they hear on the show goes against what they have seen in comics and movies for nearly a century. It can be argued that the show is basically an Elseworld (of the comic's canon) where Kara is stronger and so forth but that's not going to fly for some who watch the show.
The show is caught in a rock and a hard place where Superman is concerned. I doubt it will ever find a happy balance where everyone will be happy with how their favorite is portrayed.
It was absolutely lip-service. Superman's role was more important than Kara's and he was absolutely essential to saving the day in a way Kara was not. I'm surprised more people don't recognize it. The problem with SM on the show is that the writers and especially the fans will want him to take priority even though it's her show and she is the Super in this universe. The crossovers get by far the most viewers and they decided to showcase him because of it. This is the reason I hope Batman never makes an appearance. If the noise surrounding Superman is this loud, imagine how much more annoying Batman fanboys will get. We know he can't be second or take a backseat to anyone. That would get really ugly and Batwoman nor Green Arrow deserve it.
You know it would be funny if Black Canary got more focus than GA in a crossover. Isn't she supposed to be a superior fighter compared to Oliver? Some people say she's almost as good as Batman.
Saying SG is stronger than SM is just going to lead people to attack her and I think it's ridiculous. GA might be the best hand-to-hand combatant in the Arrowverse and I don't have a problem with it so people flipping out over Kara being stronger in this continuity gives me second-hand embarrassment. It just shows me how insecure and fragile we males can be especially when people argue he should be stronger due to him being a male and not for the reasons you stated. Their gender really has nothing to do with how powerful they are. The only instance I can think of their gender mattering is when I've seen that Kara's biological makeup allows her to absorb sunlight more efficiently. Even Batman said that this is the reason she will potentially be more powerful than Superman and he said it with certainty.
I will say that it makes sense for Kara to be a better fighter than Clark on the show. Kara has been training with Alex at the DEO while Clark hasn't. Even if she's not stronger, she should be better in hand-to-hand to combat. Kara was training to fight strong beings, including other Kryptonians, and use their strength against them. She was improving as the season went along although Alex noted that Astra let Kara defeat her because she knows Astra is a seasoned warrior who would never leave herself open the way she did. TBH, SM defeating Zod is bit harder to believe than Kara beating him. That's why Superman 2 and Smallville showed him outsmarting Zod rather than defeating him straight-up.
Personally, I wouldn't have made her stronger than SM just yet. I would've preferred them stating that when Crisis on Infinite Earths airs rather than doing it at the end of the second season. It was weird how much they wanted to emphasize it that early on like they felt the need to overcompensate for making a SG show instead of a SM one like they really wanted to in the first place.
Despite the above, I think the most ridiculous line came from Lois and I really think the writers went too far. There's no way I believe that Clark Kent makes more money than Lois Lane in any reality. Nor do I see Lois being okay with it.
Hell Rell, Kara being stronger didn’t bother I actually think that fitted because supergirl is after all the shows star. However to me this statement from Clark however did , The world doesn't need Superman if it has Supergirl. It's actually probably a bit safer. It would be the equalevlent of Bruce Wayne marching into star city telling Oliver the world doesn’t need me if it’s got you, personally I just found that statment a bit over the top. Clark also spent the Majorty of the episode getting his ass kicked which I didn’t like either. He could have just stated to supergirl the earths in safe hands with you or your more than capable of protecting the earth.
I agree fully there’s not a single world out there were Lois would ever utter such words.
Also I’ve gotta say personally from what I’ve seen I’d say Oliver/ Green arrow is hands down the best hand to hand fighter in the Arrowverse, he’s basically a more Murderous Batman of this universe he’s beaten , ra's al ghul, Daethstroke, Damien darhk just to name a few. I’d say Sara or Ra’s would be second best though Green arrow from the comics wouldn’t stand a chance against Ra’s.
But I might be slightly biased as Oliver is by far my favorite character in this universe, which is akward consider Felicity is one of my least Favorites yet she spends more time with him than anyone.
Read more:
https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk...ode=s04e09
Maybe Clark is just giving Kara an ego boost because he's burning out on the Earth's protector gig and wants to hand it off to her and spend more time with Lois and the baby. The work-life balance thing...
If TPTB decide there's enough potential for a SM series, watch for next year's "Crisis" crossover to end with an alternate Earth losing both its SM and SG and Clark and Lois deciding to go there and become its new protectors. Just because DC used the comics "Crisis" to eliminate a lot of multiverse doesn't mean the live-action version can't do something different.
(01-09-2019, 02:00 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]Despite the above, I think the most ridiculous line came from Lois and I really think the writers went too far. There's no way I believe that Clark Kent makes more money than Lois Lane in any reality. Nor do I see Lois being okay with it.
Growing up, I used to be a big time DC & Superman comic book reader. As I recall LL was always the more aggressive reporter. She was always getting in a fix in her attempts to get the story. hence, Superman usually had to rescue her. Plus the fact their editor was always yelling at Clark to be more like Lois while he did take a step back for her to get more stories.
The only way Clark could be making more cash than LL, is if he did what I read in one comic. He took a chunk of coal, while using his heat ray vision on it and simultaneously crushing it in his hand, he created a diamond.
(01-09-2019, 08:08 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe Clark is just giving Kara an ego boost because he's burning out on the Earth's protector gig and wants to hand it off to her and spend more time with Lois and the baby. The work-life balance thing...
If TPTB decide there's enough potential for a SM series, watch for next year's "Crisis" crossover to end with an alternate Earth losing both its SM and SG and Clark and Lois deciding to go there and become its new protectors. Just because DC used the comics "Crisis" to eliminate a lot of multiverse doesn't mean the live-action version can't do something different.
Clark telling Kara she's stronger than him shouldn't have bothered people nearly as much as it did. That's who he is. He's more humble than most people despite having the powers of a god. There's no doubt in my mind that he would be extremely proud of Kara and probably want her to be stronger than him because he loves her and the planet would be safer if that were true. Anyone who's a fan of Superman would approve of him saying this to her and him being able to beat everyone is far from the most important facet of his character. That's one of the reasons I've seen some people state this iteration of SM is much better than the powerhouse in the DCEU.
There's also the issue of Kara still looking up to him and kind of idolizing him. She had to follow in his footsteps and started off insecure wondering if she could be the hero he was prior to her suiting up. It's very important for her to hear that from him. Kara needs those words from Clark in a way that he doesn't from her.
I will admit that I didn't like the world doesn't need Superman as long as it has Supergirl line. I definitely cringed when I heard that one.