Grimm Forum

Marie & Kelly: Who was the better grimm and/or parent?

Two separate questions. After Nick left home, Marie went after the "bad ones" and became well known, Monroe knew who she was. Kelly apparently kept a lower profile, she was known to the Resistance, apparently under another name, She apparently was focused on revenge, score one for Marie.
In order to protect Nick, Kelly gave up her only child, who thought she was dead. Marie apparently did not see Nick for years while she was on her quest, score one for Kelly.

Both were great Gimms in their own ways. We know that Kelly was a kick-ass Grimm. Marie was also one until her cancer got the best of her. If I had to choose, I go with Kelly as the better Grimm.

As for the mothers? Both sacrificed their way of life to benefit and keep Nick safe. If I had to chose the better? Marie, she did a great job in raising Nick onward.

Again, hard to compare the two. How can you compare the best football player to the best basketball player? Just as you can't compare the two different sports, both sisters are hard to compare in very different circumstances. We can only compare the results and both exceeded expectations.

Marie. No question about it, hands down she was a better grimm and a better parent. She was one of those people who was a success at both. The thing that also sets Marie apart is that she realized being a grimm and killing both good and bad wesen was wrong. Nick gets a lot of credit for being a different kind of grimm. He wouldn't have been if it hadn't been for Marie.

(06-03-2018, 12:37 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Marie. No question about it, hands down she was a better grimm and a better parent. She was one of those people who was a success at both. The thing that also sets Marie apart is that she realized being a grimm and killing both good and bad wesen was wrong. Nick gets a lot of credit for being a different kind of grimm. He wouldn't have been if it hadn't been for Marie.

So what happened to Nick, the "Corrupt Cop" you been claiming on so many treads? Wasn't his corruption a result of being influenced by an Aunt/Grimm incognito and made him such a "corrupted cop". Not my words but yours.

Your quote

Quote:Marie. No question about it, hands down she was a better grimm and a better parent.

This is what happens with B/S artist. Eventually they loose track of their B/S and get BUSTED.

I do not doubt that Kelly was a good mother to Nick in his childhood,and Marie fulfilled her task as a mother,in Nick's adolescence.
If he had been raised by Kelly when he grew up, his destiny would have been another.
Kelly still believed that a "good Wesen was a dead Wesen".
Maybe he would not have become a murderer like his mother, but maybe he had not lived in Portland

(06-09-2018, 06:57 AM)brandon Wrote: [ -> ]I do not doubt that Kelly was a good mother to Nick in his childhood,and Marie fulfilled her task as a mother,in Nick's adolescence.

If he had been raised by Kelly when he grew up, his destiny would have been another. Kelly still believed that a "good Wesen was a dead Wesen". Maybe he would not have become a murderer like his mother, but maybe he had not lived in Portland

It's interesting that you call Nick a murderer just like his mother. It almost sounds like you think murder is a genetic trait, passed on from grimm to grimm.

It also appears that, like Rolek, women can make the decision to forgo being a grimm, and put it off as long as they want. Marie made the decision not to be a grimm mode until after raising Nick. Kelly, however, was a grimm even during his childhood and managed to effectively hide that from Nick.

Also interesting is why Nick would choose Portland as his home.

What I find interesting is how arguments are created about the character of a character yet that characterization is never acknowledged on or off screen. It is all based on someone drawing an inference based on what was seen in the show, combined with an interpretation of what that means. The result you end up with contradiction in statements being made. Again this is not saying that the inferences do not make sense. What I am saying is if the writers wanted that to be the perspective, they would have acknowledged it. On reason for writers to not acknowledge a certain perspective is it would cause a conflict with another perspective they are acknowledging.
Example many places in the show it is acknowledged that Nick is a stand up cop. The biggest acknowledgement was when they where on the run, the other officers did not believe he was corrupt. ON the other side. Where have seen Nick cover things up. Yet no where in the has any character given any indication that Nick was corrupt. The other characters have only been shown to see him as a stand up guy. This is just another example of you can draw all the inferences you want. You can point out things Nick has done to prove your point. Bottom line, that is not the writers intent.

what has been acknowledged is Kelly gave her son to her sister to protect him. It is a personal opinion if that makes her better then the one who raised him. The show gave us a comparison. Kelly choose to give up her child to protect him, Adalind did not. Which is the better mother. Using what was acknowledged on the show. Kelly and Mari where never acknowledged to be a bad mother. Where there are several acknowledgement of Adalind not being a good mother. That fight where Juliette tells Adalind that will never happen is one example. After little Kelly the writer changed the perspective on Adalind and characters started to acknowledge that Adalind is a good mother.

As for who is the better Grimm. Like who is the better mother, there is nothing that acknowledges the answer to that question. The inference I draw is Kelly is the better Grimm. Kelly has had some of the most deadly adversaries looking for her for years. We only know about the reputation Mari based on the conflicts told to Monroe by his family. Add to this Monroe admitted the stories where meant to scary him into behaving. Meaning that does not mean the stories are true. Wesen telling scary stories about Grimm has been a common theme on the show. So much so that wesen have an instant fear response because they simply know that Nick is a Grimm.

The best example of this is Alicia. She has known Nick and Juliette for a while. Yet learning Nick is a Grimm she has the same reaction as other wesen. There was no rational reason for her response other then a learned response. some have argued that it has been a learned response for so lone, it has now become an involuntary response in wesen. This theory is used when explain Juliette response that Nick was going to kill her. It also explained why when the suppression wore off Adalind was afraid the Nick was going to kill her.

From the writers standpoint we have an indication that the writers never intended for us to see one better then the other. The last fight shows that neither one was shown to be better then the other. What it did show is Nick went from being unsure ready to give up, to being better then both by delivering the final blow.

(06-11-2018, 04:11 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]What I find interesting is how arguments are created about the character of a character yet that characterization is never acknowledged on or off screen. It is all based on someone drawing an inference based on what was seen in the show, combined with an interpretation of what that means. The result you end up with contradiction in statements being made. Again this is not saying that the inferences do not make sense. What I am saying is if the writers wanted that to be the perspective, they would have acknowledged it. On reason for writers to not acknowledge a certain perspective is it would cause a conflict with another perspective they are acknowledging.
Example many places in the show it is acknowledged that Nick is a stand up cop. The biggest acknowledgement was when they where on the run, the other officers did not believe he was corrupt. ON the other side. Where have seen Nick cover things up. Yet no where in the has any character given any indication that Nick was corrupt. The other characters have only been shown to see him as a stand up guy. This is just another example of you can draw all the inferences you want. You can point out things Nick has done to prove your point. Bottom line, that is not the writers intent.

what has been acknowledged is Kelly gave her son to her sister to protect him. It is a personal opinion if that makes her better then the one who raised him. The show gave us a comparison. Kelly choose to give up her child to protect him, Adalind did not. Which is the better mother. Using what was acknowledged on the show. Kelly and Mari where never acknowledged to be a bad mother. Where there are several acknowledgement of Adalind not being a good mother. That fight where Juliette tells Adalind that will never happen is one example. After little Kelly the writer changed the perspective on Adalind and characters started to acknowledge that Adalind is a good mother.

As for who is the better Grimm. Like who is the better mother, there is nothing that acknowledges the answer to that question. The inference I draw is Kelly is the better Grimm. Kelly has had some of the most deadly adversaries looking for her for years. We only know about the reputation Mari based on the conflicts told to Monroe by his family. Add to this Monroe admitted the stories where meant to scary him into behaving. Meaning that does not mean the stories are true. Wesen telling scary stories about Grimm has been a common theme on the show. So much so that wesen have an instant fear response because they simply know that Nick is a Grimm.

The best example of this is Alicia. She has known Nick and Juliette for a while. Yet learning Nick is a Grimm she has the same reaction as other wesen. There was no rational reason for her response other then a learned response. some have argued that it has been a learned response for so lone, it has now become an involuntary response in wesen. This theory is used when explain Juliette response that Nick was going to kill her. It also explained why when the suppression wore off Adalind was afraid the Nick was going to kill her.

From the writers standpoint we have an indication that the writers never intended for us to see one better then the other. The last fight shows that neither one was shown to be better then the other. What it did show is Nick went from being unsure ready to give up, to being better then both by delivering the final blow.

I am not going to dispute most of what you say, except for whom was the better Grimm. My first post on this tread I was referencing whom was the better Grimm between the Kessler sisters.

If you going to include all of the 4 or 5 Grimms, Rolek, Marie and Trubel are out and its between Nick and his mom. IMO. the writers clearly showed us that Kelly was the better and/or best Grimm and here is why.

1) First time Nick meets his mom, he was busy fighting the assassin. Whom ends up taking him out? Kelly, not Nick.

2) Once the assassin was comatose, Kelly was kicking Nick's arse until she called out his name.

3) Kelly survived a long time as a loner Grimm. Her demise was a result of the Juliette betrayal. Nick survived with the help of the scoobies.

How is that for "writers intent" on whom was the best Grimm?

You want to talk about writers screw-ups? How about the lack of Nick overlooking what was happening to Juliette after she walked out on him and almost got Monroe shot? He was well aware of the communication between the two. He could have taken a lousy minute to inform his mom, "Hey if you hear from us again, make sure its me". Me and Juliette broke up and guess what? She is a Hexenbiest.

Monroe is not a good communicator either.He did not tell his parents about Rosalee