If there was no BC or some violent terrorist-like push behind wesen coming out of the shadows, how would that play out, if facilitated by an alliance of sorts between the governments and the wesen council? How do the go about coming out without chaos ensuing? How would the man on the ground handle it if their spouse, best friend, co-worker turned out to be wesen?
I wish the show had delved more on this than the BC/mayor plot. It could have circled back to the original fairytale premise but with the whole world in the know, instead of limiting the knowledge of wesen to just Grimms. It would have been interesting to see two different "cultures" making room for one another across the entire spectrum of society. I don't think revealing the truth wholesale would work, but how do you do it?
It could probably raise the Grimm profile knowing such people exist. HW was already more keen in doing so and the WC has also been seen working with Nick, a Grimm. Instead of "policing" wesen who commit violent crimes, you extend that to humans who do the same against wesen. Basically I'd like to see this world explored more deeply past what we saw on the show (Nick's corner of the world).
Not too sure this would work out well for the wessen. Many humans do not deal well with new situations. District 9 dealt with the arrival of a new species, did not go well for the new comers. Sure, some humans would be open and accepting, but.......I can see all wessen being forced to submit two DNA samples, wearing some sort of visible ID, having tracking devices implanted. They would be the first suspects in any crime even the usually peaceful types. If the cops had known the brothers were wessen in the Lake Monster episode, they would have been grilled until they confessed.
Thanks, rpmaluki, for the interesting discussion. I think your reference to looking beyond “Nick’s corner of the world” sums up the difficulty in the show addressing any human/Grimm/Wesen change on a global level. BC as a global assault against humans and nonconforming Wesen fell flat because activity outside of Portland was only seen on monitors and alluded to. BC felt like a local problem in the same way it felt that only Portland had an excessive number of violent Wesen requiring Grimm intervention.
I was completely disappointed with how Nick was used in the Wesen uprising arc. If there was a storyline that would have allowed him to shine as a ‘different kind of Grimm’ that was it. In my opinion, Nick should have been focused on protecting his city and it’s people - humans and Wesen wanting to keep their loved ones safe and live in peace.
There were some Wesen who only wanted the freedom to live openly without fear of persecution, while others were either drawn to BC’s violent methods or duped into believing bloodshed and complete control over humans was the only way to survive. That could have occurred without the BC political coop component by first creating conflict within the grassroots Wesen uprising. Not only would Nick have to deal with the chaos of Wesen & Grimm exposure but Wesen against Wesen violence. Just within Nick’s small circle there were sufficient arguments of why the uprising should be allowed to usher in change and why it should be stopped before the secrecy and separation of the Wesen world was compromised.
Just a side note: Meisner suddenly leading a government black ops was one of the most ridiculous parts of the HW/BC arc. But. Meisner coming to Portland as part of the Resistance because the Royals were behind the sudden rise in violent activity within the grassroots effort could have worked.
Eric, doesn't every revolution have a long period of chaos and violence before there's an opportunity for peace?
(02-25-2018, 08:55 AM)eric Wrote: [ -> ]Not too sure this would work out well for the wessen. Many humans do not deal well with new situations. District 9 dealt with the arrival of a new species, did not go well for the new comers. Sure, some humans would be open and accepting, but.......I can see all wessen being forced to submit two DNA samples, wearing some sort of visible ID, having tracking devices implanted. They would be the first suspects in any crime even the usually peaceful types. If the cops had known the brothers were wessen in the Lake Monster episode, they would have been grilled until they confessed.
Yeah, I don't doubt it would have played out like this, I feel it would have been interesting to watch for a show, the growing pains of the two worlds coming together. In a way, it feels way above the writing capabilites of the showrunners who seemed to go out of their way to avoid dealing truthfully with the consequences of the characters' actions.
It's a bit disappointing because we've had countless stories told that either show people readily accepting of those that are different like Superman/Supergirl, Thor and whatever weirdly comic character from an alien world or what you describe in District 9 where the prejudice is allowed to fester to painful levels. I truly want to see a story that bridges those two worlds where you move from the one to the other. It's a completely different story but considering how undeveloped the Grimm/wesen world is, I can't help but see the potential in it.
Since the TV Show is about Nick as a Grimm, we get introduced to many different Wesen situations he encounters as a Grimm. To me, the overall Wesen component of the population is still in the minority. Like someone else said. Based on other tvshows/movies made, humans would have not responded too friendly. Based on such a lower percentage of the population, and how predictable, the humans behave, they would have been wiped out.
I am saying it with bias, as a human. I wonder if I was Wesen, if my biased outlook would be different. Even with Wesen as a minority, once they voge, most Wesen can take out multiple humans in hand-to-hand combat pretty easily.
(02-25-2018, 09:20 AM)Robyn Wrote: [ -> ]Just a side note: Meisner suddenly leading a government black ops was one of the most ridiculous parts of the HW/BC arc. But. Meisner coming to Portland as part of the Resistance because the Royals were behind the sudden rise in violent activity within the grassroots effort could have worked.
Remember, Meisner wan not originally in charge of HW in Portland. He took over after Chavez was killed. What was still ridiculous was how a contractor took over a division of a secret government agency as second in charge.
You would think there would be one or two more layers of control from the government before it got down to a contractor. As you recall, we were exposed to another FBI agent working for the Royal/Verat. The one Trubel dispatched with her machete. Just using this example to support the idea of other Wesen/FBI agents could exist.
If there's no BC in the mix but people in general are still the same as they are in the real world, I see wesen getting the same treatment that real life people today who are "different" in some way or another are getting. Depending on which country you look at, and within a given country what part of the country, everything from unspoken social and economic discrimination to ethnic cleansing. IOW, everything that the wesen on Grimm feared would happen to them if their existence were exposed. Because they obviously had TV sets and watched the news.
(02-25-2018, 09:20 AM)Robyn Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks, rpmaluki, for the interesting discussion. I think your reference to looking beyond “Nick’s corner of the world” sums up the difficulty in the show addressing any human/Grimm/Wesen change on a global level. BC as a global assault against humans and nonconforming Wesen fell flat because activity outside of Portland was only seen on monitors and alluded to. BC felt like a local problem in the same way it felt that only Portland had an excessive number of violent Wesen requiring Grimm intervention.
I was completely disappointed with how Nick was used in the Wesen uprising arc. If there was a storyline that would have allowed him to shine as a ‘different kind of Grimm’ that was it. In my opinion, Nick should have been focused on protecting his city and it’s people - humans and Wesen wanting to keep their loved ones safe and live in peace.
There were some Wesen who only wanted the freedom to live openly without fear of persecution, while others were either drawn to BC’s violent methods or duped into believing bloodshed and complete control over humans was the only way to survive. That could have occurred without the BC political coop component by first creating conflict within the grassroots Wesen uprising. Not only would Nick have to deal with the chaos of Wesen & Grimm exposure but Wesen against Wesen violence. Just within Nick’s small circle there were sufficient arguments of why the uprising should be allowed to usher in change and why it should be stopped before the secrecy and separation of the Wesen world was compromised.
Just a side note: Meisner suddenly leading a government black ops was one of the most ridiculous parts of the HW/BC arc. But. Meisner coming to Portland as part of the Resistance because the Royals were behind the sudden rise in violent activity within the grassroots effort could have worked.
Eric, doesn't every revolution have a long period of chaos and violence before there's an opportunity for peace?
Yes, there are longer and shorter periods, but in the meantime things can get messy.In Russia the Revolution could be seen as starting in 1905 and ending in 1918, 1920, 1953 or not ended yet. Some groups probably wish things were finished here. Once fear and repression set in it can take hundreds of years to end. Ask the Roma in Europe. Don't get me wrong Robyn, I am considered the cheery one in my family, you should meet the grumpy ones.
The first thing that immediately popped into my mind once I saw the thread topic was the X-Men.
Currently, I think checking out The Gifted could give us a reasonable view on how this would be handled. There are mutants who just don't want to be persecuted and they tried going about it in a non-violent way but it clearly didn't work and that led to some taking extreme measures resembling BC. These mutants often come into conflict with each other rather than just humans and any semblance of peace lies way off into the future.
The series even started off with two innocent children who turned out be mutants and they got hunted down. Of course, this took place in a world where a major incident took place four years prior, and whatever Magneto and company were doing prior, but he came from the same place that the mutants do now in terms of his approach when he first tried to enact change.
(02-25-2018, 02:18 PM)eric Wrote: [ -> ] (02-25-2018, 09:20 AM)Robyn Wrote: [ -> ]Eric, doesn't every revolution have a long period of chaos and violence before there's an opportunity for peace?
Yes, there are longer and shorter periods, but in the meantime things can get messy.In Russia the Revolution could be seen as starting in 1905 and ending in 1918, 1920, 1953 or not ended yet. Some groups probably wish things were finished here. Once fear and repression set in it can take hundreds of years to end. Ask the Roma in Europe. Don't get me wrong Robyn, I am considered the cheery one in my family, you should meet the grumpy ones.
I’m not disagreeing or downplaying the long term effect of a revolution that coming generations have to face. Only that a local, homegrown Wesen uprising would have been easier for G & K to successfully pull off only addressing the issue within Nick’s territory. Plus, I think viewers would be more emotionally attached to the strife of Portland Wesen than those on the other side of the globe that we never see. The revolution wouldn’t have to come to fruition for the arc to work. It would be enough for the story to conclude that lifting the secrecy might be possible in the future.
(02-25-2018, 07:55 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]The first thing that immediately popped into my mind once I saw the thread topic was the X-Men.
Currently, I think checking out The Gifted could give us a reasonable view on how this would be handled. There are mutants who just don't want to be persecuted and they tried going about it in a non-violent way but it clearly didn't work and that led to some taking extreme measures resembling BC. These mutants often come into conflict with each other rather than just humans and any semblance of peace lies way off into the future.
The series even started off with two innocent children who turned out be mutants and they got hunted down. Of course, this took place in a world where a major incident took place four years prior, and whatever Magneto and company were doing prior, but he came from the same place that the mutants do now in terms of his approach when he first tried to enact change.
Actually, Eve could be an example of what happens to a wesen who has extraordinary powers.