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(01-01-2019, 01:03 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Sure. This is a description of the betrayal…. Why do you ask for evidence? I’m describing the storyline.

I'm asking for evidence because as far as I know there was nothing in any storyline anywhere that indicated Juliette tricked Kelly into a deathtrap and then did nothing to stop her beheading. This is your statement. Don't try to imply that it's evidence.

The simple statement is that Juliette sent an email to Kelly telling her Nick was in danger. Kelly responded by stating she was on her way. Did Juliette betray Kelly? Sure she did.

(01-01-2019, 10:39 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Of course, I am serious. You are the one taking about the betrayed of trust being no big deal. As I said: Juliette had access to the email only because her boyfriend trusted her. You can’t separate betraying Kelly and Nick because the first was only possible because of the second.

Well, let's go back to your statement because what you stated earlier has nothing to with what you posted above. This is what you stated:

**And why don't you give weight to the fact that Kelly is Nick's mother?**

Why would that deserve any weight? You're in essence stating that Nick was not his own person. Instead you're implying that Kelly guided his footsteps behind the scenes. Kelly left him with her sister and Nick didn't see her for decades. Now if you asked about Marie, I could say that she had some influence on his life, but even that is tenuous at best.

(01-01-2019, 10:39 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Firstly, Kelly never worked for the royals…. The royals where the enemy of the Grimms. They had been in war with the Grimms for six hundred years.

She worked for Renard, who according to the series, was a royal.

(01-01-2019, 10:39 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Secondly, Kelly never showed up in Nicks house to take a baby. Kelly brought the baby to Nick's house twice. First time with Adalind and the second time before she was killed. It was Renard who gave the baby to the royals, before Nick and co hijacked the car on the way to the airport.

It was Kelly who kidnapped the baby from Adalind. She talked Nick and the scoobies into it. If you want to add Renard to the mix, add him. I have no doubt, however, that anyone who disagreed with Kelly would have been killed for their opposition to her plan. You really don't think Kelly was going to let anyone prevent her from stealing Diana, do you?

(01-01-2019, 10:39 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Thirdly. You ask why Kelly is different from the verrat? Well, the varrat was not the mother to Juliette’s boyfriend. They were not someone who put their trust in Juliette. They represented Nick’s enemy. They Royals wanted the keys to control the world. The Grimm’s wanted to protect the world. Kelly was a Grimm. That was……… surprise................. the premises for the series!

Well, here you go off again on another tangent. We were talking about this little gem of a statement you made earlier:

**You just assume that Kelly is evil and deserve to die to clean away the blood on Juliette’s hands and ignore that Nick lost his mother in the process.**

See, I don't assume that the verrat were evil. On the other side of the coin, I don't assume Kelly's evil either. I do, however, believe both were thugs, doing dirty jobs for money. The verrat no doubt have families just like Kelly did. No doubt some are even parents, just like Kelly. That doesn't exonerate any of them from being thugs. They both worked for the royals for pay. They both stole the same baby. There really is no difference between what the two of them do for pay.

(01-01-2019, 10:39 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Do you mean when Kelly helped Adalind and Diana escape from..... the royals? Based on what we know, Renard or the Resistance. Why would the royals pay Kelly to lose Diana?

I never stated they did.
Quote:Elizabeth is an experienced hexenbist that has been practicing for years for you to claim just beacuase she saved Sean’s life without anyone noticing means an untrained hexenbist who’s been a hexenbist for about a month or two can do the same is just you reaching. Your trying to find any excuse for Juliette. Please inform me of one single situation in which season 4 Juliete attempted to kill someone without them noticing if not please stop making up nonsense.
It has nothing to do with experience. It has to do with people seeing something and knowing what they see. Basically it is seeing magic and recognizing that it is magic since to the people it does not exist. It is the reasoning that if anyone claimed she is using magic they would be seen as crazy.

Quote:The Royals original plan was to find Kelly and go after her and to get the child, there wasn’t even a single hint that they were planning on luring her to town Until after Kenneth started working with Juliette, she confirmed to Kenneth Nick had a way to contact Kelly and he came up with idea to lure her to town.
Then why did Adalind go to the house to kidnap Juliette.
Quote:Also besides Adalind giving Kelly’s name to the Royals after a week of torture and her half assed attempt to kidnapp Juliette what did Adalind do to help the Royals.

Juliette on the other hand lured Kelly into a deadly ambush and give her false information to make her feel like she was safe causing Kelly to drop her guard and walk helplessly into a deadly ambush, she then goes that very night and tries to murder Kelly’s only child.
ADalind giving the Royals information would be expected because she wanted her child back. Adalind going after Juliette to help get her child back makes sense. My argument is once she changed sides she should have told Nick. Juliette helping the Royals to get Diana to punish Adalind makes sense. Your argument is based on your feeling that Juliette owed something to Kelly. My argument is what did she owe Kelly. Kelly is the one that brought Adadlind into the picture. Nick had choose to side with Adalind instead of her, no matter the reason. Would he be expected to try an protect his child yes. but that does not change Juliettes view that Nick is now siding with Adalind. It is not excusing Juliette because there is nothing to excuse her for. The fact is Kelly is a Grimm Juliette is a hexenbiest, in the wesen world A hexenbiest is expected to go after Grimms. We know this because that was the rational used when Kelly found out that Adalind tried to kill Mari. We also saw this logic when Kelly and Sean talked and admitted anyother time they would have killed each other.
Quote:Also yes Trubel ambushed her however if Juliette is as powerful as you claim she simply could have stopped Trubel after all Trubel didn’t just shoot her right away she said goodbye Juliette, your telling me your superbiest Juliette couldn’t stop Trubel in those few seconds.
You are not considering all that was going on. For one Juliettes fame of mind, she had told Nick to kill her. The second thing Juliette was not even using the level of her abilities that she used fighting with Adalind. That would show she was more likely trying to piss him off so he would retaliate and kill her. That entire seen was Juliette exit scene which she played as someone who had given up.

The bottom line is the show has established cannon for the wesen universe. In the wesen universe it is acceptable that the strong prey on the weak. It is also established that humans do not and can not believe there exist anything that would defy the laws of physics. Unlike other shows they may not know supernatural exist but once informed it makes since. In Grimm that logic does not exist. We know this by the machinations they send each character through when they find out.

You apply all these reason why you feel kelly is the victim. IN the human world they would hold true. But Kelly is part of the wesen world and wesen rules apply. In the wesen world Kelly is the predator not the victim. IN both worlds Juliette has reason to be mad at Kelly or at least be ambivalent about what happens to her. Your entire argument about Juliette and loyalty to Kelly is based on Kelly being Nick mother. Yet Kellly did not raise him. Mari did, yet you have no negative positions about the fact that Adalind tried, and then sent someone to kill the women that was more mother to Nick then his own mother. But like I said earlier, that was a hexenbiest going after a Grimm, something that was accepted by even Kelly. So why would it be different with Juliette going after Kelly.


The resistance hired Kelly to get Diana from the Royals. Adalind was not a consideration. It is stated Kelly did not even know who Adalind was. I agree with the other post it is misguided to see betrayal. Juliette owed Kelly nothing. Basing your view on biology ignores that biology does not make someone a parent. would a parent have put their child in the middle of what would be a major fight by deceiving both the Royals and the resistance. Then leaving their child to clean up the mess. That is why I say, Juliette has reason for being mad that Nicks mom dumped this big pile of trouble on their doorstep. Then left leaving them to deal with a very pissed off hexenbiest. A pissed off hexenbiest who's revenge directly and indirectly, complete changed her life. To have sympathy for Kelly, why she is a mercenary, that kills for money. You argue Kelly deserves sympathy because she is Nick mother. She left to protect Nick. The threat was long gone, if she was a mother then why not come back for her child. When she did come back, she gets the coins only to take off again. Only to reaper putting Nick in danger. To you still see Kelly as being motherly. You can't argue that Kelly leaving Nick as a child was to protect him. But then not fault her for bringing danger, (Adalind and Diana) to his door step.
(01-01-2019, 04:06 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Elizabeth is an experienced hexenbist that has been practicing for years for you to claim just beacuase she saved Sean’s life without anyone noticing means an untrained hexenbist who’s been a hexenbist for about a month or two can do the same is just you reaching. Your trying to find any excuse for Juliette. Please inform me of one single situation in which season 4 Juliete attempted to kill someone without them noticing if not please stop making up nonsense.
It has nothing to do with experience. It has to do with people seeing something and knowing what they see. Basically it is seeing magic and recognizing that it is magic since to the people it does not exist. It is the reasoning that if anyone claimed she is using magic they would be seen as crazy.

Quote:The Royals original plan was to find Kelly and go after her and to get the child, there wasn’t even a single hint that they were planning on luring her to town Until after Kenneth started working with Juliette, she confirmed to Kenneth Nick had a way to contact Kelly and he came up with idea to lure her to town.
Then why did Adalind go to the house to kidnap Juliette.
Quote:Also besides Adalind giving Kelly’s name to the Royals after a week of torture and her half assed attempt to kidnapp Juliette what did Adalind do to help the Royals.

Juliette on the other hand lured Kelly into a deadly ambush and give her false information to make her feel like she was safe causing Kelly to drop her guard and walk helplessly into a deadly ambush, she then goes that very night and tries to murder Kelly’s only child.
ADalind giving the Royals information would be expected because she wanted her child back. Adalind going after Juliette to help get her child back makes sense. My argument is once she changed sides she should have told Nick. Juliette helping the Royals to get Diana to punish Adalind makes sense. Your argument is based on your feeling that Juliette owed something to Kelly. My argument is what did she owe Kelly. Kelly is the one that brought Adadlind into the picture. Nick had choose to side with Adalind instead of her, no matter the reason. Would he be expected to try an protect his child yes. but that does not change Juliettes view that Nick is now siding with Adalind. It is not excusing Juliette because there is nothing to excuse her for. The fact is Kelly is a Grimm Juliette is a hexenbiest, in the wesen world A hexenbiest is expected to go after Grimms. We know this because that was the rational used when Kelly found out that Adalind tried to kill Mari. We also saw this logic when Kelly and Sean talked and admitted anyother time they would have killed each other.
Quote:Also yes Trubel ambushed her however if Juliette is as powerful as you claim she simply could have stopped Trubel after all Trubel didn’t just shoot her right away she said goodbye Juliette, your telling me your superbiest Juliette couldn’t stop Trubel in those few seconds.
You are not considering all that was going on. For one Juliettes fame of mind, she had told Nick to kill her. The second thing Juliette was not even using the level of her abilities that she used fighting with Adalind. That would show she was more likely trying to piss him off so he would retaliate and kill her. That entire seen was Juliette exit scene which she played as someone who had given up.

The bottom line is the show has established cannon for the wesen universe. In the wesen universe it is acceptable that the strong prey on the weak. It is also established that humans do not and can not believe there exist anything that would defy the laws of physics. Unlike other shows they may not know supernatural exist but once informed it makes since. In Grimm that logic does not exist. We know this by the machinations they send each character through when they find out.

You apply all these reason why you feel kelly is the victim. IN the human world they would hold true. But Kelly is part of the wesen world and wesen rules apply. In the wesen world Kelly is the predator not the victim. IN both worlds Juliette has reason to be mad at Kelly or at least be ambivalent about what happens to her. Your entire argument about Juliette and loyalty to Kelly is based on Kelly being Nick mother. Yet Kellly did not raise him. Mari did, yet you have no negative positions about the fact that Adalind tried, and then sent someone to kill the women that was more mother to Nick then his own mother. But like I said earlier, that was a hexenbiest going after a Grimm, something that was accepted by even Kelly. So why would it be different with Juliette going after Kelly.


The resistance hired Kelly to get Diana from the Royals. Adalind was not a consideration. It is stated Kelly did not even know who Adalind was. I agree with the other post it is misguided to see betrayal. Juliette owed Kelly nothing. Basing your view on biology ignores that biology does not make someone a parent. would a parent have put their child in the middle of what would be a major fight by deceiving both the Royals and the resistance. Then leaving their child to clean up the mess. That is why I say, Juliette has reason for being mad that Nicks mom dumped this big pile of trouble on their doorstep. Then left leaving them to deal with a very pissed off hexenbiest. A pissed off hexenbiest who's revenge directly and indirectly, complete changed her life. To have sympathy for Kelly, why she is a mercenary, that kills for money. You argue Kelly deserves sympathy because she is Nick mother. She left to protect Nick. The threat was long gone, if she was a mother then why not come back for her child. When she did come back, she gets the coins only to take off again. Only to reaper putting Nick in danger. To you still see Kelly as being motherly. You can't argue that Kelly leaving Nick as a child was to protect him. But then not fault her for bringing danger, (Adalind and Diana) to his door step.

I’m not basing anything on my feelings I’m basing it on show canon and on show canon, Juliette betraying Kelly is considered a horrible thing, Eve herself stated she would never forgive Juliette, you can sugar coat it all you want but Juliette played a major role in the deaths of her innocent neighbors and her boyfriends mom a woman who tried to save her life while she was in a comma. Everyone on the show saw Juliette’s betrayal as a great crime even the verat leader and Kenneth were shocked at just how far she went.


Also you claiming that somehow all Wesen are inherently worse than humans and they all have a complete different set of rules is just utter nonsense, yes some Wesen particularly the predatory ones have very violent and archaic cultures and traditions just as many groups of humans have had in the past and some still have to this very day. The Royals who were humans for example have been shown to be just as predatory and cruel and as violent if not even more violent than even the very worst Wesen. The Royals basically subjugated the Wesen for centuries and even used Grimms to help control them in the past.

If majority Wesen were as crazy and ruless as you claim they surely wouldn’t have had to hide and pretend they were normal and have to obediently follow the rules of the council and the Royals and there would be no need for a BC to supposedly liberate and free them.

What you stated above is made up BS it has nothing to do with canon whatsoever.

Also who says I’m ok with Adalind being responsible for attempting to kill Marie or hiring the men who caused Marie’s heart attack along with the cancer she had. Nick had every right to kill Adalind in 1x17 and he probably should have killed Adalind along with taking her powers. However Adalind was an enemy who was sent to take out her target she didn’t know Nick or Marie at the time she was a borderline scociopath carrying out orders.

Also please do a rewatch, Kelly raised Nick for the first 12 years of his life she didn’t just pop him out and hand him over
for Marie to raise, she played a more prominent part in his childhood than Marie. She only left have because she had to after his father was murderd, the men that killed him were still after Kelly what was she suppose to do stay with Nick and risk getting him killed as well.

Adalind and Juliettes crimes were certainly as equally bad against Marie and Kelly, however Comparing what Adalind did to Marie and what Juliette did to Kelly is totally like comparing apples and oranges, one was an unknown enemy on a mission the other was on a vendetta against a man who trusted and loved her.

Juliette was the biggest love in Nicks life at the time they been together 7 years, she burned all his family’s legacy then she used the trust Nick had placed in her by allowing her to regularly contact his mother via email to lure Kelly into a deadly ambush, Juliette done all this to get her so called revenge for a decision she herself made no one forced her to help Nick get his powers back.

Please don’t claim you are using canon hardly anything you’ve stated matches what took place on screen it’s just you making up any old excuse for Juliette.
Henry you place some much emphases on the relationship making a difference. Even in your reasoning you say Eve would never forgive Juliette. Which is like I said using human reasoning you have a valid point. But like Adalind she is no longer human. As for loyalty you over loook things. situations change. Yes Kelly did work to save Juliette from the comma. But more recently she brought Adalind back into their lives. I never said all wesen. are worse then humans. I said all wesen are not like humans. The point is all wesen do not view death like humans. We have seen even bud view death as part of life and something to be expected. All wesen live by the rules of nature. Either you are a predator or you are prey. Humans try not to think that way. We try to see each other as equal and to have certain rights. There where times and still areas where survival of the fittest still exist. But among those considering themselves civilized we don't. That is where I disagree with your observation. The show spent six season showing the difference between wesen and humans. I also disagree that Juliette owed anything to Nick or Kelly. Juliette was turned into a hexenbiest. That alone is a monumental consequence. Even worst then being put in the comma. At least the comma and memory lost, she was able to cure that. But being turned into a hexenbiest, even the characters thought her being a hexenbiest was bad. Yet all the comments imply Juliette over reacted. There was no need for her to do what she did. But considering the magnitude of what happened to her, her retaliation could be seen as understated. the writers even had Juliette say they are all to blame. even more to establish Juliette state of mind, she told Sean she was normal before all the wesen mess. The argument that she volunteered to help Nick. that she knew she was taking a chance. Like she told Sean you call this a side effect.
so you take a really pissed off person, that is now wesen and starting to think like a wesen. As Juliette stated when she told them she was losing herself. What would you expect her to do. They spend episodes showing Juliettes transformation into wesen. But you expect it to end with her becoming a sympathetic individual. Caring about others. When not one character came to her side. Even Sean though he helped her. still saw her as a problem. Even when Rosalee talked to her in jail. Juliette was trying to tell her she was beginning to accept what she is, yet Rosalee her friend was telling her she was wrong.

The expectation that Juliette would be concerned about Kelly or anyone else, does not fit with the build up. Even as Eve she has always admitted that Juliette was angry and could have killed all of them. Even to the end. She was their to protect them because as Eve she felt that was her purpose to protect. She never became their friends. That bound was broken in season 4. Also remember while in Jail Julette told Nick I didn't have to let them arrest me. She did it to see what he would do. His response he was not going to let her out. Add to that the Adalind incident in the police station. With that kind of anger build up do you really expect the character to care about Nick or his mother.
Quote:Please don’t claim you are using canon hardly anything you’ve stated matches what took place on screen it’s just you making up any old excuse for Juliette.
every action and event I sight happened in the show. And because they happened that makes them establish the cannon of the show. Unlike your reasoning of because it was Nick mom and they have seven years together. Juliette should not have put Kelly in harms way. There is nothing in the show that you can sight of wesen having that type of view. That is the view of someone applying social expectations as fact. That is like you Elizabeth has more experience so she could use magic in public. No where is experience shown the dictate the limit of what a hexenbiest can do. Unlike my explanation where i use the times when Jujliette and Eve have killed without even being near someone. Being shown using magic without detection. Being shown they have the ability and the will. A far cry from using an idealistic explanation and clam it is cannon in the show.
(01-02-2019, 02:52 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]Henry you place some much emphases on the relationship making a difference. Even in your reasoning you say Eve would never forgive Juliette. Which is like I said using human reasoning you have a valid point. But like Adalind she is no longer human. As for loyalty you over loook things. situations change. Yes Kelly did work to save Juliette from the comma. But more recently she brought Adalind back into their lives. I never said all wesen. are worse then humans. I said all wesen are not like humans. The point is all wesen do not view death like humans. We have seen even bud view death as part of life and something to be expected. All wesen live by the rules of nature. Either you are a predator or you are prey. Humans try not to think that way. We try to see each other as equal and to have certain rights. There where times and still areas where survival of the fittest still exist. But among those considering themselves civilized we don't. That is where I disagree with your observation. The show spent six season showing the difference between wesen and humans. I also disagree that Juliette owed anything to Nick or Kelly. Juliette was turned into a hexenbiest. That alone is a monumental consequence. Even worst then being put in the comma. At least the comma and memory lost, she was able to cure that. But being turned into a hexenbiest, even the characters thought her being a hexenbiest was bad. Yet all the comments imply Juliette over reacted. There was no need for her to do what she did. But considering the magnitude of what happened to her, her retaliation could be seen as understated. the writers even had Juliette say they are all to blame. even more to establish Juliette state of mind, she told Sean she was normal before all the wesen mess. The argument that she volunteered to help Nick. that she knew she was taking a chance. Like she told Sean you call this a side effect.
so you take a really pissed off person, that is now wesen and starting to think like a wesen. As Juliette stated when she told them she was losing herself. What would you expect her to do. They spend episodes showing Juliettes transformation into wesen. But you expect it to end with her becoming a sympathetic individual. Caring about others. When not one character came to her side. Even Sean though he helped her. still saw her as a problem. Even when Rosalee talked to her in jail. Juliette was trying to tell her she was beginning to accept what she is, yet Rosalee her friend was telling her she was wrong.

The expectation that Juliette would be concerned about Kelly or anyone else, does not fit with the build up. Even as Eve she has always admitted that Juliette was angry and could have killed all of them. Even to the end. She was their to protect them because as Eve she felt that was her purpose to protect. She never became their friends. That bound was broken in season 4. Also remember while in Jail Julette told Nick I didn't have to let them arrest me. She did it to see what he would do. His response he was not going to let her out. Add to that the Adalind incident in the police station. With that kind of anger build up do you really expect the character to care about Nick or his mother.
Quote:Please don’t claim you are using canon hardly anything you’ve stated matches what took place on screen it’s just you making up any old excuse for Juliette.
every action and event I sight happened in the show. And because they happened that makes them establish the cannon of the show. Unlike your reasoning of because it was Nick mom and they have seven years together. Juliette should not have put Kelly in harms way. There is nothing in the show that you can sight of wesen having that type of view. That is the view of someone applying social expectations as fact. That is like you Elizabeth has more experience so she could use magic in public. No where is experience shown the dictate the limit of what a hexenbiest can do. Unlike my explanation where i use the times when Jujliette and Eve have killed without even being near someone. Being shown using magic without detection. Being shown they have the ability and the will. A far cry from using an idealistic explanation and clam it is cannon in the show.

I didn’t say Eve couldn’t forgive Juliette, that was Eve herself while talking to Nick in season 6, please stop ingnoring the show and script in favour of your made up nonsense. Are you calling Eve a lair when she said she couldn’t forgive Juliette. Eve clearly blames Juliette your the only one who keeps making excuses for her.

Also more made up bull crap please show me on the show where it was ever outright stated that all Wesen live by the rules of nature or that all Wesen see death differently than humans please stop making stuff up , yes Wesen have set rules but they are mostly about hiding their true identity from humans for their own safety and the safety of their community. Also up until about the past 200 years and still in 3rd world countries today the majority of humans seen death very differently than they do today they regularly took young children to watch brutal executions and even celebrated these brutal exacusions, murder was rampant and an everyday part of life for most people and the majority of people toiled beneath the heal of aristocracy.

Monroe and Rosalee often showed far more emotions and horror over death than Nick, Hexenbiest Adalind was shown crying and greving over her mother’s coffin and she was shown to be sad over Sebastian’s death a man she barely knew in fact it was human Meisner who was much more willing to leave sasbsstian than Adalind, yet it was human Adalind who cared little for life setting up Frau Pech then chopping up her body just to get her powers back showing zero remorse or putting innocent Juliette in a comma, yet Hexenbiest Adalind helped an injured Eve out of the tunnels and took care of her despite the fact she tried to Murder her and her unborn child more than once. It was Hexenbiest Adalind who apologized for her previous actions even apologizing to Eve about what she’d done to her.

Your once again over simplifying things to suit your agenda, yes many Wesen were shown to live by an archaic predator prey system at times but just as many didn’t and had adapted to the modern world just the same way human cultures and sections of societies have had to adapted modern times.

The only things Adalind said about Hexenbiests were they were manipulative and crave power and being one makes you think differently she never once mentioned neither did anyone else that they all see death differently than humans that’s just you speculating.



Also you have failed to point to one single scene during season 4 that indicates Juliette was capable of killing without anyone notching especially Adalind herself who is also a Hexenbiests.

Yes Juliette becoming a Hexenbiests was unfair to her and it certainly had a massive influence on her behavior however it doesn’t totally excuse her behavior the way your claiming it does.
I also see very true that juliette started thinking like a "Wesen" and acting selfishly.I do not see Juliette agreeing to be a "Hexenbiest".Only saw one side of the story.
What Rosalee wanted was for Juliette to talk about how she felt inside , but she closed before them and also did the same when she had gone to the spice shop.
Ask another Wesen about Nick the " GRIMM"?
No, directly accept what a book said.
Quote:Also more made up bull crap please show me on the show where it was ever stated that all Wesen live by the rules of nature or that all Wesen see death differently than humans please stop making stuff up
In the show each wesen that is introduced their life style is explained. With each wesen their life is based on the animal they represent. In each one their actions are something they have been doing for generations yet Nick must stop it because it is in violation of some human law. Yet none of the other wesen find it wrong. Like in the Blutbod camp. It was never said the hunts where wrong. They where said to be outdated. He was not angry at his daughter for hunting. He was mad for putting them at risk. There where cases that involved death and Rosalee said maybe you should let it go.

here is a good example of something that was in the show that showed the difference in how death is viewed. When BC attacked HW. The humans viewed it morally. Trubel, Hank, and Nick where outraged because Sean killed Meisner. Name one wesen that saw it other then losing a battle. Here is another example of the difference. Adalind,Rosalee, Monroe cut up and cook Adalinds mother like a bunch of ingredients. Nick had a problem with it. Here is another Rosalee, Monroe,SEan, Juliette where concerned about was the job done. Rosalee says did anyone get away. Woo, Hank, Nick where concerned about the other participants Woo ask what about these knuckle heads. Another example. When one of the wesenrein members was coming at Hank Even after woging, Hank hesitated to shot. Sean without a second thought grab the guy by the neck and killed him. Hank looked shocked, and what was his response (damm). HOw about with the book. Nick went in to arrest them. Monroe bit down and ripped their throats out. These are all example found in the show. The point is each example has the human having an emotional reaction. While at the same time the wesen are doing what they do. Name one scene where a wesen had an emotional reaction to death. They show fear, they show concern for the consequences. They show anger and rage. But never do they consider it wrong.

The show really made that point in the episode with the wesen that did the mercy killing. Nick had to think hard about could he let the killings go. Not once was a killing reported to the council. Rosalee said they had to report that wesen hunting rabbits foots because the practice was outlawed by wesen law. They never said why it was outlawed. But Rosalee nor Monroe where concerned about the wesen that died. They where only concerned about breaking a wesen law.

You call BS on my post even though I point to events that support a pattern. You base yours on what you see as an obvious interpretation.
What Monroe says a nick about the other " Wesen"(1×1),that he did not meddle in the affairs of others.
Nut the morale of nick is not only to defend the law, it is also to protect the weak and attack who takes advantage of them.
(01-02-2019, 05:18 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Also more made up bull crap please show me on the show where it was ever stated that all Wesen live by the rules of nature or that all Wesen see death differently than humans please stop making stuff up
In the show each wesen that is introduced their life style is explained. With each wesen their life is based on the animal they represent. In each one their actions are something they have been doing for generations yet Nick must stop it because it is in violation of some human law. Yet none of the other wesen find it wrong. Like in the Blutbod camp. It was never said the hunts where wrong. They where said to be outdated. He was not angry at his daughter for hunting. He was mad for putting them at risk. There where cases that involved death and Rosalee said maybe you should let it go.

here is a good example of something that was in the show that showed the difference in how death is viewed. When BC attacked HW. The humans viewed it morally. Trubel, Hank, and Nick where outraged because Sean killed Meisner. Name one wesen that saw it other then losing a battle. Here is another example of the difference. Adalind,Rosalee, Monroe cut up and cook Adalinds mother like a bunch of ingredients. Nick had a problem with it. Here is another Rosalee, Monroe,SEan, Juliette where concerned about was the job done. Rosalee says did anyone get away. Woo, Hank, Nick where concerned about the other participants Woo ask what about these knuckle heads. Another example. When one of the wesenrein members was coming at Hank Even after woging, Hank hesitated to shot. Sean without a second thought grab the guy by the neck and killed him. Hank looked shocked, and what was his response (damm). HOw about with the book. Nick went in to arrest them. Monroe bit down and ripped their throats out. These are all example found in the show. The point is each example has the human having an emotional reaction. While at the same time the wesen are doing what they do. Name one scene where a wesen had an emotional reaction to death. They show fear, they show concern for the consequences. They show anger and rage. But never do they consider it wrong.

The show really made that point in the episode with the wesen that did the mercy killing. Nick had to think hard about could he let the killings go. Not once was a killing reported to the council. Rosalee said they had to report that wesen hunting rabbits foots because the practice was outlawed by wesen law. They never said why it was outlawed. But Rosalee nor Monroe where concerned about the wesen that died. They where only concerned about breaking a wesen law.

You call BS on my post even though I point to events that support a pattern. You base yours on what you see as an obvious interpretation.


No the only time Rosalee said Nick should let a case go is when the Wesen council hitman was killing Wesen criminals and she didn’t want Nick to get involved because she was afraid Nick would get in trouble for stopping him and the council would put a hit out on Nick.

You point to a so called pattern, yes Wesen are partly something else but they are also partly human which is why a lot control themselves and live fairly normal lives.

Monroes own words from 4x19 reveals that predatory wesen want to respect life as much as they want to take it.

Monroe-As Wesen, we all live with a dichotomy, like a split, a conflict Monroe-between two perfectly natural but opposing instincts.
Okay? One is a killer.
The other very much respects life.
And every day we have to choose which one we're gonna be.
And I admit, I have been both.
Now, no, no, no, no.
That is It is nothing to be proud of.
Life is precious, and it should only be taken when your very survival is at stake.
You have to fight the instinct, basically, that draws you to blood.
The feeling of blood in your throat and the taste of it in your Yeah, that It's just It's important that you don't let it get the better of you.
That's Thank you, thank you.

You on the other hand are just pointing out the killer aspect because it suits your own narrative that nothing is ever Juliettes fault everyone else is to blame for her getting Kelly killed.

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk...ode=s04e19
actually you made my point about wesen and there natural instinct. Something that humans do not have. The things that would give them a different view about death. Like Monroe said "Life is precious, and it should only be taken when your very survival is at stake.". like with the book. survival justification is different for Nick then it is for Monroe. Nick was fine with getting the book without killing them if he could. Monroe was dead set on killing them as revenge for his uncle.
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