Grimm Forum

(01-08-2019, 04:19 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Try this for logic. Go back at the various episodes and search for the scene when Nick told Juliette, "She trusted you", "You betrayed her".

Not sure your point ,but my opinion of that information. Like I said, had Nick asked Adalind some basic questions. He could have done something. Here is another one. Adalind knew Juliette burned the trailer. Why didn't Nick ask or Adalind tell that Juliette might be with Kenneth at the hotel.
From Juliettes stand point Nick was with Adalind. Why would Juliette care what happened to Kelly. She never said she was sorry for out smarting Kelly. She only said she was sorry Kelly was killed. There are two sides to the argument. You see it as Nick mom being a victim. There is also the idea a hexenbiest out smarted a Grimm.
You only see Juliette as wrong. Yet the show gives us many reasons why she would be very pissed. You see her out of control, yet her actions are all in response to the situation. They show she is powerful so any action is going to be presented showing that power. Take the bar. the guy grabs her arm, she throws him across the room. Yet how many post try and justify why that was Juliette being out of control. Take the spice shop. They pissed her off she toyed with them. Yet poster make it seem like she is a psycho trying to kill everyone. Even though the writers show her calm relaxed, and satisfied that they where all scared. Yet poster use it as an example of Juliette out of control. I ask why would she not use her powers, and why would that be her being out of control. Even though Nicks comment why he wouldn't let her out. Is offset by Adalind comment of who hasn't throttled someone.

Not wanting to sound like a broken record, since I think you are old enough to remember what they were, but you push me into it.

There is no applicable logic to the behaviors of made up characters in a non-existing world. I do not have the ability to make it any plainer to you.

Since you wish to insist and continue apply this concept called "logic" to your analysis of a some writer's fantasized characters in a fantasized world? Knock your self out. (Trows in the hat)

Quote:Not wanting to sound like a broken record, since I think you are old enough to remember what they were, but you push me into it.

There is no applicable logic to the behaviors of made up characters in a non-existing world. I do not have the ability to make it any plainer to you.

Since you wish to insist and continue apply this concept called "logic" to your analysis of a some writer's fantasized characters in a fantasized world? Knock your self out. (Trows in the hat)

The reason I apply logic is because the show is a product. It has a frame work. It has a skin that dictates how it looks and feels. As in the manufacture of any product there has to be logic so the parts fit together. Yes what they do on the show my defy logic. It may not even seem rational. But that does not mean their isn't a logical reason for why a character does something illogical. Take the argument about Juleitte trying to kill Adalind. Where they showing her trying to kill Adalind an failing. or where they trying to provide a reason for Adalind to be scared. If she was trying an failing you would expect them to show disappointment. Instead the response was that of intimidation. Take the Knives it was after Juliete intimidated ADalind that she realized she was changing. Up to that point Juliette was kind to everyone. Even when ADalind showed up with Diana, her kindness beat out her hatred. As a hexenbiest the first two times it bothered her that she was able to be cruel. She even said as much to Nick and then in the shop. It was the last time in the spice shop that being intimidating no longer bothered her.

Although Juliette would change that, she would have to understand that Nick would not bow to her as if he were her servant.None of his friends would do it

(01-12-2019, 06:50 AM)brandon Wrote: [ -> ]Although Juliette would change that, she would have to understand that Nick would not bow to her as if he were her servant.None of his friends would do it

There was never any indication in the series that Juliette felt that Nick would bow to her. When Juliette was brainwashed into being Eve, the whole intent was to make her into a weapon. In other words, she was being forced to bow to HW, to do what they wanted.

The scene where Eve threatens Adalind is often translated into Eve still having feelings for Juliette, so if Adalind does anything to him, she's going to kill Adalind. That could be, but it really doesn't make sense in view of the character of Eve.

(01-12-2019, 08:40 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2019, 06:50 AM)brandon Wrote: [ -> ]Although Juliette would change that, she would have to understand that Nick would not bow to her as if he were her servant.None of his friends would do it

There was never any indication in the series that Juliette felt that Nick would bow to her. When Juliette was brainwashed into being Eve, the whole intent was to make her into a weapon. In other words, she was being forced to bow to HW, to do what they




There was never any indication in the series that Juliette felt that Nick would bow to her. When Juliette was brainwashed into being Eve, the whole intent was to make her into a weapon. In other words, she was being forced to bow to HW, to do what they wanted.

The scene where Eve threatens Adalind is often translated into Eve still having feelings for Juliette, so if Adalind does anything to him, she's going to kill Adalind. That could be, but it really doesn't make sense in view of the character of Eve.

Irk, I totally agree there is zero evidence she treated Nick like a servant good point , I think people do tend to forget how loyal to Nick she was at times even to her detriment and the events that led her to becoming who she was in late season 4 were far from totally her fault. While you know how I feel about her actions towards Kelly and the neighbors Juliette does sometimes not get the sympathy she deserves at times from a lot of posters me included.

(01-12-2019, 09:28 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]Irk, I totally agree there is zero evidence she treated Nick like a servant good point , I think people do tend to forget how loyal to Nick she was at times even to her detriment and the events that led her to becoming who she was in late season 4 were far from totally her fault. While you know how I feel about her actions towards Kelly and the neighbors Juliette does sometimes not get the sympathy she deserves at times from a lot of posters me included.

What a great post!

(01-12-2019, 09:28 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]Irk, I totally agree there is zero evidence she treated Nick like a servant good point , I think people do tend to forget how loyal to Nick she was at times even to her detriment and the events that led her to becoming who she was in late season 4 were far from totally her fault. While you know how I feel about her actions towards Kelly and the neighbors Juliette does sometimes not get the sympathy she deserves at times from a lot of posters me included.

This was a great post but this isn't news to anyone who's been paying attention. I get why you posted it because this seems to escape some people because of the debates going on. How many times have we've come to Juliette's defense and said people were being completely unfair to her and how everything she does get painted in a negative light? It's happened countless times and will continue to happen.

When discussing Juliette and Adalind, I think we can agree that all we ask is for people to give credit where credit is due and not make it seem like we always have to choose a side where we take up for for one and bash the other.

This just seems to constantly happen with female characters in my experience in fandom. It used to be Cuddy vs. Cameron from House and now it's Laurel/Felicity, Iris/Caitlin, Arya/Sansa, and lately Dany/Sansa. It has gotten really ugly where it feels like a side must be chosen.

(01-12-2019, 01:57 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]When discussing Juliette and Adalind, I think we can agree that all we ask is for people to give credit where credit is due and not make it seem like we always have to choose a side where we take up for for one and bash the other.

Henry could have easily stated something unflattering about Juliette. It's his right to do so. Why should he (or anyone else for that matter) be forced to state something great about Juliette so that some poster's sensitivities aren't offended?

The greater offense to me is how certain posters are treated by some because they don't see characters the way others do. No poster should ever be subjected to the bashing and insults that go on and on and on.

Quote:It really seems to me that some posters view Adalind and sometimes Nick as horrible people.

You told me yesterday that what you find interesting about me is me thinking I can play you and others for fools. Well, the same goes for you. You get fired up over statements about imaginary characters, yet you could care less about the reality of this forum which is the continual trash that's hurled at some of us. Please don't try to pretend outrage, because I have read posts where you've been more than happy to join in about statements I have made. In case you're thinking otherwise, that is you playing me for a fool.

Just for your information, Nick and Adalind are not real people. The posters you debate with are.

(01-12-2019, 03:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2019, 01:57 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]When discussing Juliette and Adalind, I think we can agree that all we ask is for people to give credit where credit is due and not make it seem like we always have to choose a side where we take up for for one and bash the other.

Henry could have easily stated something unflattering about Juliette. It's his right to do so. Why should he (or anyone else for that matter) be forced to state something great about Juliette so that some poster's sensitivities aren't offended?

The greater offense to me is how certain posters are treated by some because they don't see characters the way others do. No poster should ever be subjected to the bashing and insults that go on and on and on.

Quote:It really seems to me that some posters view Adalind and sometimes Nick as horrible people.

You told me yesterday that what you find interesting about me is me thinking I can play you and others for fools. Well, the same goes for you. You get fired up over statements about imaginary characters, yet you could care less about the reality of this forum which is the continual trash that's hurled at some of us. Please don't try to pretend outrage, because I have read posts where you've been more than happy to join in about statements I have made. In case you're thinking otherwise, that is you playing me for a fool.

Just for your information, Nick and Adalind are not real people. The posters you debate with are.

Yeah, me and my pretend outrage. I just don't get the imaginary character concept and never have. I thought they were real all along. Are you telling me Grimm is not a documentary?

You do insult people and bait them and then claim ignorance when called out on it. We were talking about how Nick isn't getting paid for being a Grimm and then you countered by saying you didn't think people would get so upset by the suggestion their hero could be getting paid for being a Grimm. Anyone with eyes could tell how much of a bait that was because it had nothing to do with why people said he wasn't getting paid for being a Grimm.

Or more recently, you responded to us saying Adalind wasn't using her powers or just feminine charm to manipulate Nick by saying why would anyone have a problem with her using her powers to get what she wants. That was quite the spin. It's insulting to our intelligence.

You may not think so but it's insulting when you do things like that when someone counters what you say by detailing what happened in the show.

On a related note, are you really talking about posters' sensitivity? I wonder why you assume someone is angry or "fired up' when responding to you. You must think I have fire shooting out of my eyes right now as I type this now.

(01-12-2019, 05:54 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, me and my pretend outrage. I just don't get the imaginary character concept and never have. I thought they were real all along. Are you telling me Grimm is not a documentary?

You act like they're real. If not, I wonder then why you would write that some posters view Adalind and sometimes Nick as horrible people

(01-12-2019, 05:54 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]You do insult people and bait them and then claim ignorance when called out on it.

I'm not going to disagree with you about insulting people. However, I will state this. I have never been the one to insult first. I only insult after being insulted. There are a number of posters here who feel they can just state whatever they want and then cry foul when they get insulted back.

(01-12-2019, 05:54 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]We were talking about how Nick isn't getting paid for being a Grimm and then you countered by saying you didn't think people would get so upset by the suggestion their hero could be getting paid for being a Grimm. Anyone with eyes could tell how much of a bait that was because it had nothing to do with why people said he wasn't getting paid for being a Grimm

The least you could do when making remarks like this is to provide the thread name. I'd like to see what I wrote and why you see it as baiting.

And btw, if baiting is so repugnant to you, why did you respond?

(01-12-2019, 05:54 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]Or more recently, you responded to us saying Adalind wasn't using her powers or just feminine charm to manipulate Nick by saying why would anyone have a problem with her using her powers to get what she wants. That was quite the spin. It's insulting to our intelligence.

Let me state this clearly. This was not a bait and for you to claim it as such is incorrect.

As for Adalind, one of the great injustices I found to her character is the fact that the series couldn't do anything more for her than make her the mother of Nick's child as well as the bedwarmer for him. Add less interest by having her holed up in an abandoned warehouse. She has nothing, no property, no resources, and she even has to drive Juliette's car. Even baby Kelly is up for debate, because if you notice, just about everyone here refers to him as "Nick's baby".

Gee, what an awful thing and all, with her being a hexenbiest to speculate that she might actually use her powers to get something that she wants. You're insulted over that? Too bad.

(01-12-2019, 05:54 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]You may not think so but it's insulting when you do things like that when someone counters what you say by detailing what happened in the show.

Are you talking about yourself here? Because if you'll recall, you indicated you had all of this proof to support your point. All it turned out to be were statements about what you see, or how you feel, or this is the way you look at it. All of this tells me two things, which I have brought up before. One, Adalind is not a fleshed out character. We only had tidbits about her here and there. Two, what you see, feel, or the way you look at things is not evidence, no matter how much you rephrase it to try and make it so.

(01-12-2019, 05:54 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]On a related note, are you really talking about posters' sensitivity? I wonder why you assume someone is angry or "fired up' when responding to you. You must think I have fire shooting out of my eyes right now as I type this now.

Not really.