@Adriano Neres Rodrigues said something that should be a thread of it own. Some on the forum want Nick to be a police officer first and a Grmm second. We seen that the NPPD and even some in Nick department were wessen, so they can see other wessen like Nick. How would they treat then treating wessen crime? Did the let wesen crime slide or did the arrest them?
Don't think we ever had this debate. We always debated Grimm's as police not the wessen police. Look at the wessenrein a police officer was involved in that but didn't use the law to stop it.
Ture Conrad could have ordered the other wesen to NPPD, or the NPPD could have had someone moving wessen to that department. We know they had a judge in their pocket, now look at the judge did he let wessen off, we don't know.
So it isn't a oneside debate wessen can see wessen so did wessen police let wessen crime off?
This has a lot of items to be considered.
The first thing is that when it comes to grimm, as far we know there is just one type of grimm. We know they can come from different countries and different cultures which means they can think different from one to another, but there is just grimm and that is it.
When talk about wesen we must consider that there are a lot of different types of wesen. There are wesen types that are natural enemies of other wesen type. There other kind of wesen there are natural alies of other wesen kind.
What I mean is that: What happen if a wesen officer finds a crime commited by wesen that is a natural enemy? I am remembering an episode from season one when a pig like wesen officer (I think he was like a fireman officer or something like that) was killing Monroe friends. That is a situation to consider.
We must also consider that this is a very speculative topic since the show didn’t explore this subject as much as I would like it to have. This being said all answers will be based on our own view world and how each one of us sees the job of the show runners. This being said, I have biased view about this… I mean I think the writers tend to write their characters as almost choosing themselves first. I mean: Nick chooses Grimm first, cop second. A wesen officer would choose wesen first, cop second.
I can see the NPP being mostly,but not all wessen cops. Easy to do-- "Boss, I need to transfer there==sick aunt there, shorter commute, like the local donut shop more. We know the wessen fire marshall was willing to work against the wessen arsonist, so wessen cops would arrest other wessen when needed. Once BC started, the wessen cops would let BC crimes go unsolved to help support the cause.
(04-27-2017, 07:55 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]This has a lot of items to be considered.
The first thing is that when it comes to grimm, as far we know there is just one type of grimm. We know they can come from different countries and different cultures which means they can think different from one to another, but there is just grimm and that is it.
When talk about wesen we must consider that there are a lot of different types of wesen. There are wesen types that are natural enemies of other wesen type. There other kind of wesen there are natural alies of other wesen kind.
What I mean is that: What happen if a wesen officer finds a crime commited by wesen that is a natural enemy? I am remembering an episode from season one when a pig like wesen officer (I think he was like a fireman officer or something like that) was killing Monroe friends. That is a situation to consider.
We must also consider that this is a very speculative topic since the show didn’t explore this subject as much as I would like it to have. This being said all answers will be based on our own view world and how each one of us sees the job of the show runners. This being said, I have biased view about this… I mean I think the writers tend to write their characters as almost choosing themselves first. I mean: Nick chooses Grimm first, cop second. A wesen officer would choose wesen first, cop second.
You have hit the nail on the head so to speak. In your last thought on the debate. A Grimm is likely always a Grimm, how for next question does this make him more neutral than as wessen police officer? A Grimm has no ties to any wessen type.
(04-27-2017, 08:05 AM)eric Wrote: [ -> ]I can see the NPP being mostly,but not all wessen cops. Easy to do-- "Boss, I need to transfer there==sick aunt there, shorter commute, like the local donut shop more. We know the wessen fire marshall was willing to work against the wessen arsonist, so wessen cops would arrest other wessen when needed. Once BC started, the wessen cops would let BC crimes go unsolved to help support the cause.
So you see BC making a change in wessen policing? We know that not all wessen wanted BC should we had this to debate as far as police officer?
(04-27-2017, 08:09 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2017, 07:55 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]This has a lot of items to be considered.
The first thing is that when it comes to grimm, as far we know there is just one type of grimm. We know they can come from different countries and different cultures which means they can think different from one to another, but there is just grimm and that is it.
When talk about wesen we must consider that there are a lot of different types of wesen. There are wesen types that are natural enemies of other wesen type. There other kind of wesen there are natural alies of other wesen kind.
What I mean is that: What happen if a wesen officer finds a crime commited by wesen that is a natural enemy? I am remembering an episode from season one when a pig like wesen officer (I think he was like a fireman officer or something like that) was killing Monroe friends. That is a situation to consider.
We must also consider that this is a very speculative topic since the show didn’t explore this subject as much as I would like it to have. This being said all answers will be based on our own view world and how each one of us sees the job of the show runners. This being said, I have biased view about this… I mean I think the writers tend to write their characters as almost choosing themselves first. I mean: Nick chooses Grimm first, cop second. A wesen officer would choose wesen first, cop second.
You have hit the nail on the head so to speak. In your last thought on the debate. A Grimm is likely always a Grimm, how for next question does this make him more neutral than as wessen police officer? A Grimm has no ties to any wessen type.
(04-27-2017, 08:05 AM)eric Wrote: [ -> ]I can see the NPP being mostly,but not all wessen cops. Easy to do-- "Boss, I need to transfer there==sick aunt there, shorter commute, like the local donut shop more. We know the wessen fire marshall was willing to work against the wessen arsonist, so wessen cops would arrest other wessen when needed. Once BC started, the wessen cops would let BC crimes go unsolved to help support the cause.
So you see BC making a change in wessen policing? We know that not all wessen wanted BC should we had this to debate as far as police officer?
I don’t know if the word is neutral but since grimm has no natural ties with no specific wesen type I think it makes grimm the right type of being to control wesen. I mean… while I was reading your question I remember that in the past royals used grimms to control wesen, isn’t it?
Maybe if they use wesen to control other wesen they would have had those type of conflicts while grimm tend to kill everyone equally.
Thinking in grimm and a wesen cop, I would say yes: grimm tend to be more neutral considering the differences in the wesen types. But I don’t know if was always true about Nick. He for example used to be harder with some type of wesen and softer with other types (as a way to speak). I know that we must consider in this situation that Nick was influenced by Monroe and Rosalee that are wesen and have preferences. Trubel for example I see her acting more harder against all types of wesen doesn’t matter what kind of wesen it was.
This discussion is making me think of the Alignment System of lawful, neutral and chaotic (good, neutral or evil). We can't truly class an entire group under one label. There are already differences between Nick vs typical Grimm like his mother for instance as much as there's only one (type) of Grimm compared to many types of wesen. For one thing I don't think Grimms are evil (lawful, neutral or chaotic) but they aren't lawful good, lawful neutral or true neutral based on what they do.
The wesen cops from NPP are basically the other side of the "Nick the Grimm but is a cop" coin. I don't see much difference between how they handle cases and and how Nick does his job. They will arrest a perp for a crime unless they feel there are extenuating circumstances to do otherwise and that typically comes from their own personal feelings about the crime/the people involved. They will carry out true justice even when wesen are involved or mete out their own gorilla justice depending on circumstances.
The issue in the Grimm universe is that this kind of "justice" outside of lawful justice is permissable. So between Nick and NPP they aren't so different until the two come face to face and they are no longer cops but are defined by what they are. If you remove the lawful justice system from the equation, in the Grimm universe, Grimms are more "lawful" of the two because it's the supposed natural order between the two species.
(04-27-2017, 08:09 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2017, 07:55 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]This has a lot of items to be considered.
The first thing is that when it comes to grimm, as far we know there is just one type of grimm. We know they can come from different countries and different cultures which means they can think different from one to another, but there is just grimm and that is it.
When talk about wesen we must consider that there are a lot of different types of wesen. There are wesen types that are natural enemies of other wesen type. There other kind of wesen there are natural alies of other wesen kind.
What I mean is that: What happen if a wesen officer finds a crime commited by wesen that is a natural enemy? I am remembering an episode from season one when a pig like wesen officer (I think he was like a fireman officer or something like that) was killing Monroe friends. That is a situation to consider.
We must also consider that this is a very speculative topic since the show didn’t explore this subject as much as I would like it to have. This being said all answers will be based on our own view world and how each one of us sees the job of the show runners. This being said, I have biased view about this… I mean I think the writers tend to write their characters as almost choosing themselves first. I mean: Nick chooses Grimm first, cop second. A wesen officer would choose wesen first, cop second.
You have hit the nail on the head so to speak. In your last thought on the debate. A Grimm is likely always a Grimm, how for next question does this make him more neutral than as wessen police officer? A Grimm has no ties to any wessen type.
(04-27-2017, 08:05 AM)eric Wrote: [ -> ]I can see the NPP being mostly,but not all wessen cops. Easy to do-- "Boss, I need to transfer there==sick aunt there, shorter commute, like the local donut shop more. We know the wessen fire marshall was willing to work against the wessen arsonist, so wessen cops would arrest other wessen when needed. Once BC started, the wessen cops would let BC crimes go unsolved to help support the cause.
So you see BC making a change in wessen policing? We know that not all wessen wanted BC should we had this to debate as far as police officer?
I don't see the wessen cops treating the run of the mill wessen murderer, robber, rapists. I am saying that the wessen BC cops would ignore, hid, overlook BC related crimes. Its not good form to jail those on your side. The janitor who supplied Renard with a cell phone, for example-normally he would lose his job and be up on charges. Its a risk he was willing to take for the greater good of the cause.
Had BC actually succeeded in their goal of a wesen-ruled world, police would all be wesen loyal to BC. Just as in any other dictatorship. They would have protected wesen from kehrseite and might have acted in cases of wesen-on-wesen crime, but it would have been open season for wesen victimizing kehrseite.
In the PPB as it existed during the series, BC would have sought out any cops who were wesen and attempted to recruit them to the cause. Any wesen cop who refused to join BC would have been killed, and all that would have happened before "Wesen Nacht." But just murdering cops outright would have resulted in unwanted investigations, so there would probably have been an unfortunate spike in PPB cops being killed in off-duty "accidents."
(04-27-2017, 10:29 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]Had BC actually succeeded in their goal of a wesen-ruled world, police would all be wesen loyal to BC. Just as in any other dictatorship. They would have protected wesen from kehrseite and might have acted in cases of wesen-on-wesen crime, but it would have been open season for wesen victimizing kehrseite.
In the PPB as it existed during the series, BC would have sought out any cops who were wesen and attempted to recruit them to the cause. Any wesen cop who refused to join BC would have been killed, and all that would have happened before "Wesen Nacht." But just murdering cops outright would have resulted in unwanted investigations, so there would probably have been an unfortunate spike in PPB cops being killed in off-duty "accidents."
Question does anyone think the Z character was to show us a world where BC had won?
(04-27-2017, 10:44 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2017, 10:29 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]Had BC actually succeeded in their goal of a wesen-ruled world, police would all be wesen loyal to BC. Just as in any other dictatorship. They would have protected wesen from kehrseite and might have acted in cases of wesen-on-wesen crime, but it would have been open season for wesen victimizing kehrseite.
In the PPB as it existed during the series, BC would have sought out any cops who were wesen and attempted to recruit them to the cause. Any wesen cop who refused to join BC would have been killed, and all that would have happened before "Wesen Nacht." But just murdering cops outright would have resulted in unwanted investigations, so there would probably have been an unfortunate spike in PPB cops being killed in off-duty "accidents."
Question does anyone think the Z character was to show us a world where BC had won?
I think so. Right now, wesen remain hidden behind their human facades but with BC in control, there'd be no need. I think this is what happened in the other world and with enough time wesen couldn't wogen between the two states but that also could be because Zerstörer may have exerted some form of magic over the dimension. Though I don't know what that means if that other place is supposed to be hell.