Grimm Forum

(03-15-2016, 05:31 AM)tscchope Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see the difference between the effects of magic or a religious relic.

No one said you had to. I'm questioning it because I don't recall any accounts from miracle recipients stating that they were cured, but left with a scar.

But then I don't believe this is a religious object. I think it's a magical one, capable of good and evil. As such, I believe it is capable of leaving a scar.

(03-15-2016, 06:14 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]But then I don't believe this is a religious object. I think it's a magical one, capable of good and evil. As such, I believe it is capable of leaving a scar.

Yet the person using either magic or relic would have to know that the person already had a scar so that the healing also removed the scar.

(03-15-2016, 07:11 AM)tscchope Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-15-2016, 06:14 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]But then I don't believe this is a religious object. I think it's a magical one, capable of good and evil. As such, I believe it is capable of leaving a scar.

Yet the person using either magic or relic would have to know that the person already had a scar so that the healing also removed the scar.

Monroe had a scar on his arm. I don't believe the stick was a religious artifact or it would have completely healed the wound and left no scar.

(03-15-2016, 07:16 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Monroe had a scar on his arm. I don't believe the stick was a religious artifact or it would have completely healed the wound and left no scar.

Not the point I am making. The healing would not have removed a scar, if the scar was already there - unless the person wielding the relic knew about it. The healing is simply restoring the arm to the condition it was in before the bite. Restoring the arm would have been all Nick was thinking subconsciously.

(03-15-2016, 07:23 AM)tscchope Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-15-2016, 07:16 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Monroe had a scar on his arm. I don't believe the stick was a religious artifact or it would have completely healed the wound and left no scar.

Not the point I am making. The healing would not have removed a scar, if the scar was already there - unless the person wielding the relic knew about it. The healing is simply restoring the arm to the condition it was in before the bite. Restoring the arm would have been all Nick was thinking subconsciously.

And the point I'm making is I don't think the scar was there before the bite. So if the artifact was a religious one, there should have been no scar. The fact that it left a scar leads me to think it is not a religious artifact but a magical one. It might have been programmed to completely heal some people and not others. I think they left the scar for a reason. Monroe is somehow going to be affected by this healing and I don't think in a good way.

I am not religious so a religious relic and a magic wand are the same to me. The both only exist in the minds of the writer. Miraculous healing like magic defies the law of physics.

Taking a rational approach to the question. pure magic, would not cure it removes it existence. Now you see it now you don't. A religious relic would cause a miracle recovery, by accelerating the bodies healing properties, with any injury once it heals it would leave a scar that may or may not go away. We all have childhood scars.

(03-13-2016, 04:20 PM)droid327 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-13-2016, 04:02 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]The interviews indicate other things will happen with the stick some good some bad. But not to Monroe. IMO the stick will be like hexenbiest. The powers and result will be added as needed. AS for what it is. All of the cast state they have no idea what it is. From the writers stand point does it mater. The story relies on what it can do. Origin has never been part of any of the stories.

I kinda like that idea....they never actually say what it is, just leave that up to the viewer's imaginations. Not like there's an instruction manual or a cargo manifest they can refer to. And if there had been any contemporary records of their secret crusade, which is unlikely, they would be apocryphal at best by now...impossible to separate fact from fable. So really, there's no way they CAN know what it is.

And that gets around them having to out-and-out say "its a piece of the True Cross" or "the Spear of Destiny" or anything that'd be overtly tied to Christ. They kinda hinted at its religiosity with the Tree of Eden reference and the allusory "piece of a bigger piece of wood that's very important to a lot of people", maybe that's all they're going to put out there for us.

If Monroe were instantly de-Wesened, though, I have to imagine he'd immediately notice that his senses of hearing and smell were suddenly muted. If a magic artifact suddenly made your eyesight only as good as a dog's, you'd realize that before you even realized where you were.

^that's a good point... I'm trying to remember if Monroe actually uses these heightened senses without wogeing though but I'm pretty sure he does... in a number of episodes.

---

Okay now as for this scar talk.... I have watched the scene several times over now and I personally don't see a scar. They show the wound/arm three times, the first it's only starting to heal, second time it's sealing up, third time it vanishes completely leaving behind some blood. I'd have to lean towards jsgrimm45's comment about it just being some residual blood. That's what it looks like to me anyhow. If it were a scar I think it would be a lot more noticeable, if that's what the writers wanted to portray.

(03-13-2016, 04:02 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]The interviews indicate other things will happen with the stick some good some bad. But not to Monroe. IMO the stick will be like hexenbiest. The powers and result will be added as needed. AS for what it is. All of the cast state they have no idea what it is. From the writers stand point does it mater. The story relies on what it can do. Origin has never been part of any of the stories.

I like the idea they don't give it a name let us each see it as we want. I also agree I think it does what the user wants it to do. So depending on the mindset of the user the the outcome.

Hello Forum,
There are many web pages for Bible study. Here is one that examines Bible verses about "Astrology, the Occult, Mediums, Divination and Sorcery."
http://www.dougbrittonbooks.com/onlinebi...orcery.php

Quote:Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. Deuteronomy 18:10-12

There is speculation on this Grimm Forum thread about the "stick" the seven Grimm Knights hid. Some believe it is a "religious relic" and others wonder if it is "magic."
Wikipedia provides information about the Knights Templar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
which includes the following:

Quote:. . . the Knights Templar, the Order of Solomon's Temple (French: Ordre du Temple or Templiers) or simply as Templars, were among the wealthiest and most powerful of the Western Christian military orders[4] and were prominent actors in Christian finance. The organisation existed for nearly two centuries during the Middle Ages.

Officially endorsed by the Roman Catholic Church around 1129, the Order became a favoured charity throughout Christendom and grew rapidly in membership and power. Templar knights, in their distinctive white mantles with a red cross, were among the most skilled fighting units of the Crusades.[5] Non-combatant members of the Order managed a large economic infrastructure throughout Christendom,[6] innovating financial techniques that were an early form of banking, [7][8] and building fortifications across Europe and the Holy Land.

Then from Grimm Wiki:
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Seven_Keys

Quote:After sacking Constantinople in the Fourth Crusade, they took a treasure back but decided not to give it to their benefactors. Instead, they made a map on the keys, and each knight took a key. ("Bad Teeth") Among the Knights Templar who fought in the siege of Constantinople was Grigory Wolf of Zollern, Schwarzwald, believed to be the paternal ancestor of a Grimm, Josef Nebojsa, who formerly had three keys. ("Map of the Seven Knights") The keys, when put together, reveal the location of an unknown treasure. The treasure is supposed to be an artifact so powerful that, if held by the seven Royal families, it would allow them to rule the world.

So in 5.12 Into the Schwarzwald "treasure" is found by Nick and Monroe and brought back to Portland.

They use the keys and get it opened. The script is:

Quote:Oh, my God.
Okay, there better be something inside that.
Oh, okay.
There is.
It's a stick? Looks like a stick.
A really old stick.
It can't be just a stick.
Well, that's what it looks like.

Then Monroe's arm is bleeding and he passes out:

Quote:The last thing we want are the gates of hell opening up in Portland.
Seems like they already have.
Okay, now let's get you to a doctor and get your arm looked at before it falls off.
Oh, whoa, hold, hold, hold, hold, hold.
There's there's some writing on this cloth.
I have no idea what language this is.
Do you? Monroe? What's wrong? Huh? I, uh I don't, uh - Okay.
- Hey, hey.
He's passing out.
Come on.
Get him down.
Must be his arm.
Hey, buddy.
- All right? - Oh, my God.
Oh, I knew it.
It's blood poisoning.
Quick, we need a tourniquet, somebody.
Put it on his arm before any more infection - gets to his heart.
- We can use my belt.
Here.
Call 911.
I think he's going into shock.
We need an ambulance.
Got a medical emergency.
All right.
Now what? We can't wait for an ambulance.
We have to get him to a hospital.
Get him up.
Let's get him up, come on.
Come on.
Okay.
- Wait, wait.
- Nick, we can't wait.
Look at his arm.
What's happening? I don't know.
It's getting better.
What? Anyone want to take a stab at explaining that? Not me.
I've never seen anything like that.
What did you do? What happened? This.

Sorry for the length of the script. However, it seems the stick can heal. The healing power seems to blow the minds of the Scoobie Gang. However, I am happy Monroe's arm has healed.
OK, back to the Bible, Knights Templar and the seven Grimm Knights. The Knights were likely Christian and familiar with Biblical admonitions about sorcery etc. Given the tone of Grimm and in particular the basic witch-like characteristics of Hexenbiest Wesen if the Knights knew the stick's "power" was from sorcery would they destroy it? Kelly Burkhardt did not hesitate to dispose of a Hexenbiest. She seemed to prejudge them as evil. She was in process of destroying the magic coins. Yet she and Marie were extremely protective of the keys to the treasure. IMO, the stick is more likely a religious relic than sorcerer's magic.
IMO, Monroe is a pure of heart guy and the stick will be selective in who it heals.
I expect the coming episodes will clarify many of our "sticky" questions.
New Guy

(03-15-2016, 03:07 PM)New Guy Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Forum,
There are many web pages for Bible study. Here is one that examines Bible verses about "Astrology, the Occult, Mediums, Divination and Sorcery."
http://www.dougbrittonbooks.com/onlinebi...orcery.php

Quote:Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. Deuteronomy 18:10-12

There is speculation on this Grimm Forum thread about the "stick" the seven Grimm Knights hid. Some believe it is a "religious relic" and others wonder if it is "magic."
Wikipedia provides information about the Knights Templar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
which includes the following:

Quote:. . . the Knights Templar, the Order of Solomon's Temple (French: Ordre du Temple or Templiers) or simply as Templars, were among the wealthiest and most powerful of the Western Christian military orders[4] and were prominent actors in Christian finance. The organisation existed for nearly two centuries during the Middle Ages.

Officially endorsed by the Roman Catholic Church around 1129, the Order became a favoured charity throughout Christendom and grew rapidly in membership and power. Templar knights, in their distinctive white mantles with a red cross, were among the most skilled fighting units of the Crusades.[5] Non-combatant members of the Order managed a large economic infrastructure throughout Christendom,[6] innovating financial techniques that were an early form of banking, [7][8] and building fortifications across Europe and the Holy Land.

Then from Grimm Wiki:
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Seven_Keys

Quote:After sacking Constantinople in the Fourth Crusade, they took a treasure back but decided not to give it to their benefactors. Instead, they made a map on the keys, and each knight took a key. ("Bad Teeth") Among the Knights Templar who fought in the siege of Constantinople was Grigory Wolf of Zollern, Schwarzwald, believed to be the paternal ancestor of a Grimm, Josef Nebojsa, who formerly had three keys. ("Map of the Seven Knights") The keys, when put together, reveal the location of an unknown treasure. The treasure is supposed to be an artifact so powerful that, if held by the seven Royal families, it would allow them to rule the world.

So in 5.12 Into the Schwarzwald "treasure" is found by Nick and Monroe and brought back to Portland.

They use the keys and get it opened. The script is:

Quote:Oh, my God.
Okay, there better be something inside that.
Oh, okay.
There is.
It's a stick? Looks like a stick.
A really old stick.
It can't be just a stick.
Well, that's what it looks like.

Then Monroe's arm is bleeding and he passes out:

Quote:The last thing we want are the gates of hell opening up in Portland.
Seems like they already have.
Okay, now let's get you to a doctor and get your arm looked at before it falls off.
Oh, whoa, hold, hold, hold, hold, hold.
There's there's some writing on this cloth.
I have no idea what language this is.
Do you? Monroe? What's wrong? Huh? I, uh I don't, uh - Okay.
- Hey, hey.
He's passing out.
Come on.
Get him down.
Must be his arm.
Hey, buddy.
- All right? - Oh, my God.
Oh, I knew it.
It's blood poisoning.
Quick, we need a tourniquet, somebody.
Put it on his arm before any more infection - gets to his heart.
- We can use my belt.
Here.
Call 911.
I think he's going into shock.
We need an ambulance.
Got a medical emergency.
All right.
Now what? We can't wait for an ambulance.
We have to get him to a hospital.
Get him up.
Let's get him up, come on.
Come on.
Okay.
- Wait, wait.
- Nick, we can't wait.
Look at his arm.
What's happening? I don't know.
It's getting better.
What? Anyone want to take a stab at explaining that? Not me.
I've never seen anything like that.
What did you do? What happened? This.

Sorry for the length of the script. However, it seems the stick can heal. The healing power seems to blow the minds of the Scoobie Gang. However, I am happy Monroe's arm has healed.
OK, back to the Bible, Knights Templar and the seven Grimm Knights. The Knights were likely Christian and familiar with Biblical admonitions about sorcery etc. Given the tone of Grimm and in particular the basic witch-like characteristics of Hexenbiest Wesen if the Knights knew the stick's "power" was from sorcery would they destroy it? Kelly Burkhardt did not hesitate to dispose of a Hexenbiest. She seemed to prejudge them as evil. She was in process of destroying the magic coins. Yet she and Marie were extremely protective of the keys to the treasure. IMO, the stick is more likely a religious relic than sorcerer's magic.
IMO, Monroe is a pure of heart guy and the stick will be selective in who it heals.
I expect the coming episodes will clarify many of our "sticky" questions.
New Guy

"sticky questions"?! You had to go there...