Maybe I am going too far in the left field here…. But…
I was thinking to create a post asking what was the purpose of some happenings in the show in the last and in this new season. Like the Juliette/Eve plot line. What does it add to the story kill Juliette and bring her back as Eve?
While thinking about it I figured out that this wasn’t the only character that changed in the show. It is the BIG change, but not the only one.
Actually, the Grimm show that started in season one was killed in season 4 just like Juliette. Season 5 is a new show with a new story and with just the ‘memories’ of the old story just like Eve. That is why I think Juliette transformation in Eve is actually a metaphor for the show transformation from season 4 to season 5.
Think about this list:
Adelaind was ‘killed’ as a villain and now she is Nick’s family.
Nisck’s family was Juliette and Kelly (mommy). Now it is Adelaind and Kelly (baby).
Meisner was Sean’s agent in Europe and resistance and now he is an agent of an American Government secret agency. Where is the resistance? I haven’t listened about them yet in season five.
Sean as a royal prince ‘died’ with the royals... Now he is a political leader helping in a mayor campaign. Where are the royals? Just in memories?
The royals where the big threat but now...
Now the big threat is the BC... but they didn’t exist in season 1, 2, 3 and 4.
The first clue of the HW was in the beginning of season 4 with agent Chavez. But sincerely I don’t think the writers knew they were going to create this group in the show at that moment.
The keys were a threat. Now they are the salvation against the BC.
Certainly some elements can be brought back like the royals and the resistance... But the point is that until now in season five there are nothing for the story of the show.
Those are just some elements that I could remember. I hope you guys can remember more.
Just like Juliette became Eve, grimm became a new show with new elements (and old memories).
I don’t know if the writers did it on porpoise, but Eve is there calling our attention. While we look at Eve and debate about Eve we don’t see what happened to the rest of the show.
Actually, to see Eve as a new character and to forget about Juliette is almost like to look at grimm as a new show and to forget the past events.
Does someone see something I am not?
Very good points the whole series has changed but we are only talking about Juliette/Eve.
I would say Sean has put some distance between Nick/Hank/Wu in the other seasons he would have worked with them like with U.S. Marshals. So his character has made a change now that you point things out. Look at his reaction to the news Chavez is dead.
Bud looks as if he going to be more involved as he was at the end of season 4.
We dropped the coins but are back on the keys
Meisner is going as I see it become the Sean of season 4 for the scoobies.
They are taking the series into new ground very good point. I'll think of some more now that I'm looking.
Hello Adriano,
It is vexing to have three more Grimmless Fridays to watch a program that was ready to view weeks ago. But that is what it is.
You asked:
Quote:What does it add to the story kill Juliette and bring her back as Eve?
First the story as of 4.22 had Juliette
DEAD. Her story arc established a tragic end to Kelly and Juliette, the two people that Nick loved most. The writers destroyed Juliette leaving her a rabid Hexenbiest that had to be put down. We thought she was killed and many of us rejoiced that an instrument of murder and mayhem had met a just demise. Nick's heart was broken and you could see he still loved her as she
DIED in his arms.
Second, death must be permanent. Bringing her back makes Grimm like a video game where you start over if you get killed. So death in Grimm is meaningless. The success of Grimm depends on making the real world/fantasy world become viable. Death in reality is permanent. In fantasy, death must also be permanent. Consider the Oz plot where the Wicked Witch of the West died by melting. If she came back and killed Toto would that have added to the story or destroyed it?
IMO, Eve adds nothing. In fact she distracts us away from the main story lines. She makes us question the viability of the show, and could destroy it. The character Eve is a mistake and could quickly cause NBC to cancel Grimm.
New Guy
(01-08-2016, 10:35 AM)New Guy Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Adriano,
It is vexing to have three more Grimmless Fridays to watch a program that was ready to view weeks ago. But that is what it is.
You asked:
Quote:What does it add to the story kill Juliette and bring her back as Eve?
First the story as of 4.22 had Juliette DEAD. Her story arc established a tragic end to Kelly and Juliette, the two people that Nick loved most. The writers destroyed Juliette leaving her a rabid Hexenbiest that had to be put down. We thought she was killed and many of us rejoiced that an instrument of murder and mayhem had met a just demise. Nick's heart was broken and you could see he still loved her as she DIED in his arms.
Second, death must be permanent. Bringing her back makes Grimm like a video game where you start over if you get killed. So death in Grimm is meaningless. The success of Grimm depends on making the real world/fantasy world become viable. Death in reality is permanent. In fantasy, death must also be permanent. Consider the Oz plot where the Wicked Witch of the West died by melting. If she came back and killed Toto would that have added to the story or destroyed it?
IMO, Eve adds nothing. In fact she distracts us away from the main story lines. She makes us question the viability of the show, and could destroy it. The character Eve is a mistake and could quickly cause NBC to cancel Grimm.
New Guy
New Guy I see your point and that was exactly what makes me question the show.
But I am worried because it is not only Juliette/Eve that has changed. The show has changed.
For example: What happened with all the royals’ story line? The king is dead, ok! But that is just one family. What about the other SIX? The writers simple forgot about them.
Are the writers trying to create a new show? Will it work?
One thing I've noticed is that the venues we've been accustomed to have changed. Most noticably, the new war room is the spice shop now that the trailer is gone, and Nick's new digs have taken on a new and gloomy atmosphere compared to the beautiful home he shared with Juliette. Kinda symbolic of his new reality. I feel the task of Season 5 is to see Nick emerge from the battering of so many losses as a stronger and smarter hero-warrior, a clear-minded and savvy strategist, and a determined leader at the forefront of the fight. There's no room for any competition to his role as such, but there is plenty of need for courageous brothers and sisters to fill the ranks of soldiers willing to follow him into battle, imo. Eve can be wedged in there in the way that Hercules was a member of the crew captained by Jason in the quest for the golden fleece. He was the strongest, but Jason was his Captain. But just as in the myth, imo, Eve must part company with the group eventually, I believe.
Renard now has a new address, too, although that happened early in Season 4. So much of the original setting has been altered in the show; about proportionate to the amount of change in the profiles of the characters.
Guess an argument for your observation could made. Where I am withholding my opinion is the area of the Royals and the Resistance involvement in the story, since I feel the Royals are directly involved in the BC uprising. I also feel that Meisner has kept his affiliation with the Resistance and that they also know of these recent events.
Viktor did such a despicable and dangerous thing in arranging for the King's assassination that the Royals can't be out of the picture for long, imo. Which places Renard square in the middle of the palace intrigue I think is going to continue to take place.
Do t.v. shows actually reinvent themselves successfully, I don't know of any, but maybe so. I get the feeling that the show is simply evolving as inevitably as any other program that endures through a sustained period of time. It's a real achievement hold on to viewer loyalty for many seasons and I feel Grimm will do this. At this point, I don't see Grimm as a new show because the original has resounded with its audience, but the producers are certainly taking a chance with its future in featuring so prominently a controversial 'artist formerly known as Juliette.'
(01-08-2016, 10:35 AM)New Guy Wrote: [ -> ]Second, death must be permanent. Bringing her back makes Grimm like a video game where you start over if you get killed. So death in Grimm is meaningless. The success of Grimm depends on making the real world/fantasy world become viable. Death in reality is permanent. In fantasy, death must also be permanent.
That's a ridiculously authoritarian statement to make.
"Everything that happens in reality must also happen in fantasy!" The whole PURPOSE of fantasy is to break reality's rules. It's escapism.
If fantasy authors followed your rules, Gandalf (one of the greatest characters of the genre of all time) would still be dead. Are you basically saying J.R.R. Tolkien was an idiot for bringing him back?
I'm not arguing whether Juliette's resurrection as Eve was a good idea or not. I'm taking offense with a broad, sweeping remark you made which claims any fantasy piece not written by a nihilist like George R.R. Martin should be chucked in the garbage.
Hi Adriano,
Your comments get to the heart of the matter:
Quote:it is not only Juliette/Eve that has changed. The show has changed.
For example: What happened with all the royals’ story line? The king is dead, ok! But that is just one family. What about the other SIX? The writers simple forgot about them.
Are the writers trying to create a new show? Will it work?
The writers relied on the Royals and their world dominance agenda for a major plot line. We (viewers) have not forgotten.
This Forum is replete with plausible plot lines that could keep the show interesting.
The
Trouble With Eve is that Juliette's death makes Eve a phony. To make matters worse, the new show, "
All About Eve" must rely on a phony character to make the show viable. It is preposterous to imagine the all about Eve show could remain on the air. For that matter,
Anything About Eve insults the viewers, since Eve is Juliette, and therefor is
DEAD. Grimm needs to bury that dead bitch and move on.
New Guy
(01-08-2016, 10:35 AM)New Guy Wrote: [ -> ]Second, death must be permanent. Bringing her back makes Grimm like a video game where you start over if you get killed. So death in Grimm is meaningless. The success of Grimm depends on making the real world/fantasy world become viable. Death in reality is permanent. In fantasy, death must also be permanent. Consider the Oz plot where the Wicked Witch of the West died by melting. If she came back and killed Toto would that have added to the story or destroyed it?
New Guy
What the kittens? Hell must have just frozen over, NewGuy and I agree on something.
Wow...sort of like I stumbled into some bizarro world ...
Izod
Good stories have to evolve over time or they become stale--another week, another wesen for Nick to subdue, ho hum. A fantasy show, not bound by the limitations of reality, can do unreal things to move story lines along. Several people keep saying Juliette died, but as soon as Truble shot the bolts, I wondered immediately if they contained a poison or a sedative. If you want to take a dangerous person (Juliette) alive, use a sedative. Another potion(this IS a magic show) can be used to control her anger issues(think bi-polar and Lithium-for those with no personal experience, google). Many organizations-spy agencies, religious orders- give a fresh name to the newbie to show they have become new persons, they no longer who they were before, but new beings. I can see changes in the relations of all the characters , I don't know if the writers can pull it off or not. I know they are not Homers
, but I'm hoping they can.
(01-08-2016, 09:19 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe I am going too far in the left field here…. But…
Actually, the Grimm show that started in season one was killed in season 4 just like Juliette. Season 5 is a new show with a new story and with just the ‘memories’ of the old story just like Eve. That is why I think Juliette transformation in Eve is actually a metaphor for the show transformation from season 4 to season 5.
Maybe not, Adriano. The show creators/writers and some of the cast have said in interviews that S5 is a reboot. Some of the cast have said it feels like doing a different show.
Yours and others’ comments have made interesting comparisons and are seemingly spot-on with the shows overall transition/new direction:
Family = Juliette/Mother transitions to Family = Adalind/Son
Evil/Nemesis = Adalind transitions to Evil/Nemesis = Juliette
Good/Partner = Juliette transitions to Good/Partner = Adalind
House = holding on to a pre-Grimm life transitions to Fortress = accepting the Grimm life
And kudos to you, Adriano for pointing out the Eve/Show metaphor:
Eve possessing Juliette’s memories but not an emotional tie to her past opens a path for the show & the other characters to sever & morn their ties to the past while transitioning to unexpected relationships & an overall different way of life.
As for questions & concerns posted about dropped storylines - the coins, the Royals, etc. - I doubt that has anything to do with the show’s new direction, but rather, the writers dropping & revitalizing old plot devices as needed to tell their season 5 story arc. Remember, Greenwalt & Kouf admitted at Comic Con that their decision to explain the keys if the show made it to the 100th episode was mostly based on them not thinking they’d ever write a 100th episode.