(10-24-2015, 04:47 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ]Since Nick also took a purification potion mixed by Rosalee following the ingredients in Catherine Shade's "shopping list" does that mean he is now a "prince" also? Can he awaken a sleeping beauty?
Lin, great question. This debate rises more questions than answers. I think the potion was just about the pure of heart thing and not about the prince thing.
I confess that I never understood that plot. Why Sean needed to be a prince and after the not prince Nick needed to drink the potion?
(10-24-2015, 04:52 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ] (10-24-2015, 04:47 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ]Since Nick also took a purification potion mixed by Rosalee following the ingredients in Catherine Shade's "shopping list" does that mean he is now a "prince" also? Can he awaken a sleeping beauty?
Lin, great question. This debate rises more questions than answers. I think the potion was just about the pure of heart thing and not about the prince thing.
I confess that I never understood that plot. Why Sean needed to be a prince and after the not prince Nick needed to drink the potion?
I don't know "why" Sean had to do anything. I just know it follows "loosely" a fairy tale called the Sleeping Princess. Why it does could be asked of any fairy tale they quote. Why does the first episode follow Little Red Riding Hood? Because it does. That's what Grimm is about, rewriting fairy tales.
The Sleeping Princess
Well I know one thing. Nick is the protagonist of the TV show. When they do a fairy tale Nick will replay whatever is the protagonist of that fairy tale. In the story Briar Rose, sleeping beauty is not the protagonist. She doesn't do anything, has no decisions to make, she is just the hapless victim.
The protagonist in Briar Rose is her father the king. He's the one who wants a daughter, he's the one who invites the fairies to the christening, he's the one who hears the curse and then tries to keep the curse from happening by banning spinning wheels. He's just a failed protagonist because he loses.
Renard is Nick's antagonist in Grimm so he plays the antagonist in whatever fairy tale is going on. The Prince is not a friend to the king her father. Waking Briar Rose is good for Briar Rose but it's too late for the father to see his daughter again. Sleeping for a hundred years, until after the king himself dies, is as good as losing his daughter to death from his point of view.
In the archetypes are lined up like this:
Nick = protagonist
Renard = antagonist
mentor friend = Monroe
mentor magic giver = Rosalee
sidekick = Hank
temptress = Juliette (light temptress) or Adalind (dark temptress)
(10-24-2015, 04:52 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ] (10-24-2015, 04:47 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ]Since Nick also took a purification potion mixed by Rosalee following the ingredients in Catherine Shade's "shopping list" does that mean he is now a "prince" also? Can he awaken a sleeping beauty?
Lin, great question. This debate rises more questions than answers. I think the potion was just about the pure of heart thing and not about the prince thing.
I confess that I never understood that plot. Why Sean needed to be a prince and after the not prince Nick needed to drink the potion?
I never understood why Nick had to take the purification potion at all. That made no sense to me.
(10-23-2015, 10:32 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]That's a good point, izzy. I at first thought Renard actually did this for Juliette. But there was something jsgrimm brought up some time ago that came to mind. Renard went Catherine and told her that if Juliette died because of Adalind's actions, that might cause Nick to leave Portland. Renard said he invested too much in Nick to let that happen.
It seems he had some personal reasons to keep Nick around and saving Juliette's life was the way to make that happen.
Maybe...I accept what you and jsgrimm say, but...and here is the but..
.
IMO, so far in the series Sasha Roiz has proven to be the best actor. Whether it is his skill relative to the rest of the cast, or the luck of the script that gave rise to a larger range of opportunity to showcase his talent, I would say he has stood head an shoulders above the rest of the cast in terms of acting(once again the scripts have much to do with the presence of an actor). Hang in there, I am bringing this up for a reason.
Given the range of opportunities she has had, I see Bitsie Tulloch as a much weaker actress than Roiz is an actor. That is my opinion.
Now to the point, when you look at the way Roiz and Tulloch chose to use their craft to create an illusion for the viewers of their relationship, they both chose to convey a level of chemistry, and a bit of tenderness, a sense of longing and obvious an undercurrent of passion. That tells me that it is what the script called for and both the strong and the weak actors were directed to convey it, so they did.
In a story, as in life, there is always the spoken word and then body language. Usually body language is a more accurate guide in communication.
The character Renard could say what he will, but the body language deliberately conveyed by the actor playing his character said something different and consistently throughout the series.
If I were to interpret this in terms of scripting, I would say Renard utter those words to lie to himself as to his real motivations. I don't think at that point he wanted to hurt Nick but he had desires for Juliette, the desires a man has when he wants a woman beyond in just the physical sense: body, mind and soul. So far in the series Renard and Monroe have been the most complex characters.
(10-24-2015, 04:52 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ] (10-24-2015, 04:47 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ]Since Nick also took a purification potion mixed by Rosalee following the ingredients in Catherine Shade's "shopping list" does that mean he is now a "prince" also? Can he awaken a sleeping beauty?
Lin, great question. This debate rises more questions than answers. I think the potion was just about the pure of heart thing and not about the prince thing.
I confess that I never understood that plot. Why Sean needed to be a prince and after the not prince Nick needed to drink the potion?
We are to put same point that Grimm blood is a potion but royal blood is also (that and 5 dollars will get you a cup of coffee). We seen the same thing in the Gypsy testing Adalind baby's blood for royal blood. I think the writers put this in the series as a to be use later that royal blood is also a potion. Quess is what will it be needed for?
(10-24-2015, 10:29 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]Now to the point, when you look at the way Roiz and Tulloch chose to use their craft to create an illusion for the viewers of their relationship, they both chose to convey a level of chemistry, and a bit of tenderness, a sense of longing and obvious an undercurrent of passion. That tells me that it is what the script called for and both the strong and the weak actors were directed to convey it, so they did.
In a story, as in life, there is always the spoken word and then body language. Usually body language is a more accurate guide in communication.
The character Renard could say what he will, but the body language deliberately conveyed by the actor playing his character said something different and consistently throughout the series.
If I were to interpret this in terms of scripting, I would say Renard utter those words to lie to himself as to his real motivations. I don't think at that point he wanted to hurt Nick but he had desires for Juliette, the desires a man has when he wants a woman beyond in just the physical sense: body, mind and soul. So far in the series Renard and Monroe have been the most complex characters.
I'll agree Sean and Juliette had a real chemistry on screen. That being said, however, I saw the chemistry between them as amorous, nothing more. For Renard, that would make sense. He was a prince, he took the potion, kissed the girl, and the pheromones flew. But that was it. If he was really that interested, his next logical step would be to pursue the woman, not for her body, but for her mind and her soul.
I'm not letting Juliette off the hook here either. As an intelligent woman, if she was interested in Renard, she would also look toward pursuing the next logical steps. That would be dumping Nick, booting him out, and making it plain to Renard that she's interested in something more than a fling around the living room. It never happened for either of them and that leads me to believe that they were victims of the spell. That is strange to me because I can understand Renard falling victim. I don't get Juliette.
Unless....Adalind and Catherine had some kind of plan in mind for both Juliette and Renard.
But I digress. Even a few years later when Juliette shows up at Renard's door, the only thing the two of them have in common is a roll in the hay.
(10-25-2015, 07:53 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I'll agree Sean and Juliette had a real chemistry on screen. That being said, however, I saw the chemistry between them as amorous, nothing more.
Bingo. Juliette and Renard might be in love with each other's flesh, but flesh doesn't last. I like to think Nick and Juliette are spiritually intertwined. How else could a Grimm and a Hexenbiest possibly live happily ever after?
(10-25-2015, 10:31 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: [ -> ]Bingo. Juliette and Renard might be in love with each other's flesh, but flesh doesn't last. I like to think Nick and Juliette are spiritually intertwined. How else could a Grimm and a Hexenbiest possibly live happily ever after?
You're right. It would be nice to think Nick and Juliette were spiritually intertwined. If they were, I never saw it. Nick was often too busy running off to investigate and fight wesen to be concerned with Juliette's welfare. So she was left alone. Juliette's character was so underdeveloped, no one really cared that he left her alone. The writers simply handled the problem by switching to a commercial or over to Monroe and Rosalee, then to Nick and company at the scene of the crime.
"I don't want it in any way. What we did makes it unpredictable".
Adalind talked about her hexenbiest with Rosalee in last week's episode. Rosalee says that maybe the hexenbiest won't come back, then adds, that it may not come back in the same way.
They don't talk about the hexenbiest spirit like it's part of Adalind only suppressed. Instead it sounds to me like they're saying the hexenbiest is physically not present and is in fact, off somewhere else. The suppressant is acting like some protective dome that keeps the spirit from coming back.
Adalind says she no longer wants to be a hexenbiest, and Rosalee is surprised at the statement.
I thought Adalind concocted the suppressant and took it to prove to the gang that it would work on Juliette. But now I wonder if she took the potion for another reason. What does Adalind know about the hexenbiest that could make it so unpredictable she doesn't want it back?
(11-11-2015, 07:48 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]"I don't want it in any way. What we did makes it unpredictable".
Adalind talked about her hexenbiest with Rosalee in last week's episode. Rosalee says that maybe the hexenbiest won't come back, then adds, that it may not come back in the same way.
They don't talk about the hexenbiest spirit like it's part of Adalind only suppressed. Instead it sounds to me like they're saying the hexenbiest is physically not present and is in fact, off somewhere else. The suppressant is acting like some protective dome that keeps the spirit from coming back.
Adalind says she no longer wants to be a hexenbiest, and Rosalee is surprised at the statement.
I thought Adalind concocted the suppressant and took it to prove to the gang that it would work on Juliette. But now I wonder if she took the potion for another reason. What does Adalind know about the hexenbiest that could make it so unpredictable she doesn't want it back?
Good way to start a debate. I see the potion as putting the hexen to sleep and like any sleeping pill it will wake up question of when. In Juliette case I think Adalind thought if she had some time to think so when the hexen wake up she could control it not the other way around (IMO).
Adalind knows hexen power and what the power does to HER again (IMO) knowing you have a problem is the start of fixing the problem she now wants to fix the problem for good. She would still have the potion knowledge that would add to Rosalee's knowledge making her a help to the scooby's.