Grimm Forum

Been thinking that for a time the door will be only seen. I think they put the door there as a come back for Juliette. Later if the Juliette is not to come back then the door will have something to do with the keys. Just thinking out loud.

(10-23-2015, 08:08 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ]Been thinking that for a time the door will be only seen. I think they put the door there as a come back for Juliette. Later if the Juliette is not to come back then the door will have something to do with the keys. Just thinking out loud.

I have a sneaking suspicion the showrunners originally intended to have Juliette written off the show, and then were slightly taken aback by how popular she became - before she betrayed Kelly to the Royals, of course . Hence the weird cliffhanger with Chavez and her goons showing up to steal Juliette's body.

But that's just me thinking out loud too.

I was thinking about the episodes that dealt with Juliette’s coma, which in my opinion, was the longest most drawn out storyline next to Samantha’s disappearance on X-Files.

What is interesting to me about this whole coma thing was the episode where Renard kisses Juliette and awakens her from the spell Adalind cast on her. I actually thought it was a clever gimmick that prince Renard was the only one who could break the spell, so I did a little research tonight on Prince Charming.

I did some research on fairytales tonight and found only one version (Sleeping Beauty) where the prince (who is not named Charming) kisses Beauty and she awakens from her hundred year slumber. There wasn’t anything in the tale that stated the rescuer even had to be a prince. The way the tale read, the prince just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Beauty could have been rescued by Joe,the manure slinger. All he needed was the kiss that could awaken. I think in the manner of fairytales, the best life for a woman was that of a queen. She would have been waited on for the rest of her life, been wealthy and remained relatively healthy. And so, she marries the prince who can give that to her.

Catherine Schade tells Renard that in order to break this spell, the person who wakes Juliette has to be pure of heart. I couldn’t find anything in any of the fairytales I looked at that stated the man had to be pure of heart.

Catherine goes on to tell Renard that it’s challenging finding someone who’s pure of heart nowadays. So she has to do it chemically. She says the more pure of heart a person is, the less painful the process. Then she tells Renard that since he’s barely human, he’s in for quite a ride. Renard drinks the potion, experiences severe excruciating pain, but survives to save Juliette.

Later, Catherine tells Kelly that only a prince can save Juliette and there’s a prince in Portland, but dies before revealing the name to Kelly.

I thought this might be a good topic to put in the spells and potions thread. What is meant by pure of heart? I did a little research on that as well. From a theological perspective, the pure in heart will see God. There was also a website listing some heroes who were pure in heart. Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz was listed. In my opinion, being pure of heart is a spiritual process, not a chemical one. So how could Renard’s heart be made pure, chemically? How long does a pure of heart spell last? Can others see this pureness of heart?

(10-23-2015, 08:39 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I thought this might be a good topic to put in the spells and potions thread. What is meant by pure of heart? I did a little research on that as well. From a theological perspective, the pure in heart will see God. There was also a website listing some heroes who were pure in heart. Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz was listed. In my opinion, being pure of heart is a spiritual process, not a chemical one. So how could Renard’s heart be made pure, chemically? How long does a pure of heart spell last? Can others see this pureness of heart?

In the Asiatic fighting arts, those who are classically pure of heart are often heralded through romantic tales of their alleged heroism. Generally they are devoted to a single ideal, person, or concept, manifesting itself as master-servant relationship, unyielding love (even love unadorned) or principle.

Stating it differently, Renard devoting himself to curing Juliette and enduring pain and anguish in order to steele himself to do so would be considered being pure of heart. The key being the pain he willingly went trough, tested his heart and because he did not back out, he became pure of heart.

Another example would be if Rocky had fought Creed to get money for a child's operation he would have been a great example of being pure of heart.

Excelsior...

(10-23-2015, 10:10 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]Stating it differently, Renard devoting himself to curing Juliette and enduring pain and anguish in order to steele himself to do so would be considered being pure of heart. The key being the pain he willingly went trough, tested his heart and because he did not back out, he became pure of heart.

That's a good point, izzy. I at first thought Renard actually did this for Juliette. But there was something jsgrimm brought up some time ago that came to mind. Renard went Catherine and told her that if Juliette died because of Adalind's actions, that might cause Nick to leave Portland. Renard said he invested too much in Nick to let that happen.
It seems he had some personal reasons to keep Nick around and saving Juliette's life was the way to make that happen.

(10-23-2015, 10:32 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]That's a good point, izzy. I at first thought Renard actually did this for Juliette. But there was something jsgrimm brought up some time ago that came to mind. Renard went Catherine and told her that if Juliette died because of Adalind's actions, that might cause Nick to leave Portland. Renard said he invested too much in Nick to let that happen.
It seems he had some personal reasons to keep Nick around and saving Juliette's life was the way to make that happen.

But one of the previews made it pretty clear that Renard was suspending Nick. That wouldn't seem to fit into his plan of "keeping Nick around."

(10-24-2015, 07:58 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: [ -> ]But one of the previews made it pretty clear that Renard was suspending Nick. That wouldn't seem to fit into his plan of "keeping Nick around."

I remember why Renard wanted to keep Nick around. It was that dumb plotline about the keys. Marie gave Nick the key, and Renard was supposed to get it. Adalind botched things up by putting Juliette in a coma and Renard was concerned that if she died, Nick would leave Portland, taking the key with him. I'm obviously not into the royals plotline. Three years later and we're still no closer to solving whatever it is the keys are supposed to do and wherever it is they're supposed to do it.

There are two keys now. Does Renard know where they are or does he even care? If he does, he still could suspend Nick and keep him nearby. While there's no Juliette, there's still the baby.

(10-23-2015, 10:32 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2015, 10:10 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]Stating it differently, Renard devoting himself to curing Juliette and enduring pain and anguish in order to steele himself to do so would be considered being pure of heart. The key being the pain he willingly went trough, tested his heart and because he did not back out, he became pure of heart.

That's a good point, izzy. I at first thought Renard actually did this for Juliette. But there was something jsgrimm brought up some time ago that came to mind. Renard went Catherine and told her that if Juliette died because of Adalind's actions, that might cause Nick to leave Portland. Renard said he invested too much in Nick to let that happen.
It seems he had some personal reasons to keep Nick around and saving Juliette's life was the way to make that happen.

I like the martial arts definition izzy used: devotes to a Single idea, person or concept.

Considering the Theological theory, as far as I know Jewish people has a concept of heart different from the concept we have now a days. For us heart means almost the same as feelings, love, hate... Those things. For Jewish heart means also thought, intentions... Heart is the internal part of our being... As a way to speak.

Considering those two definitions, original Sean intention in saving Juliette was jot pure since he was doing that for her... He was not doing that for Nick either. Sean was saving Juliette to keep Nick in Portland because of same hided and obscure intention.

Maybe the pure of heart potion was there to make Sean really cares about Juliette... Maybe the effects never really ended... That is a good debate.

Another point I would like to talk about is: how can someone became pure of heart chemically?

Biologically speaking, the heart has the only function of send blood to our body. Our brain is the one responsible to process our feelings, thoughts and intentions... Our brain would be the heart Jewish talk about.

There are a lot of Medicine drugs that act in our brain... For depression for exemple... Many ilegal drugs can also create illusions and things like that since they act in the brain. The potion gave to Sean can simply had acted in Sean brain... Changing his thoughts and this way his intentions...

(10-24-2015, 08:27 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Three years later and we're still no closer to solving whatever it is the keys are supposed to do and wherever it is they're supposed to do it.

Yeah, the keys are those annoying "loose ends" that just sort of get lost in the shuffle of an ongoing TV show, aren't they?

Quote:There are two keys now. Does Renard know where they are or does he even care? If he does, he still could suspend Nick and keep him nearby.

I don't see how he could do both. I imagine Nick is going to want Renard's head on a platter when he finds out about his latest dalliance with Juliette (especially now he's going full-on Grimm in a way he hasn't before), and his suspension could well be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. If anything, Renard should be doing everything in his power to keep his DISTANCE from Nick.

(10-24-2015, 08:36 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]Considering the Theological theory, as far as I know Jewish people has a concept of heart different from the concept we have now a days. For us heart means almost the same as feelings, love, hate... Those things. For Jewish heart means also thought, intentions... Heart is the internal part of our being... As a way to speak.

I didn't even want to bring up the theological beatitude. That was the only thing I could think of last night while I was typing. It was late, what can I say?

Do you watch the show, Vikings, Adriano? If so, you already know that the show was a just a springtime replacement, only supposed to last for 10 or 12 episodes. This upcoming February, it will begin its 4th year. I love the show and cannot wait until it returns. This is actually one show that was not recommended to me, but that I watched on my own.

I never knew much about the Vikings. I've seen the movie with Ernest Borgnine, who plays Ragnar. Ragnar is also the main character in the series, but it takes a real life approach to the Vikings. They are marauders, but they also want to seek and settle into new lands to farm. They believe totally in Odin, and look unfavorably on Ragnar when he brings a Christian monk, Athelstan, into their village as a slave. That, by the way, was among the coolest storylines I have ever seen. The monk does not convert Ragnar, but instead the two of them become great friends and have this complex relationship where their lives intertwine.

One of the things I really wanted to bring up here was the concept of pureness of heart in Vikings. It is not the same principle as the Christian beatitude, but it's just as striking. Vikings kills off as many main characters as Game of Thrones. But in Vikings, it's a hazard of the life they lead. They also have their own spiritual beliefs in Odin and Valhalla.

I wanted to bring up an example of what I see as pureness of heart in Vikings. The women in Vikings have always impressed me because they are devoted and fierce mothers. Their goodness really comes up when their children are in danger.

One of the main characters, Siggy, has lost everything. She was rich and the wife of a lord. Ragnar killed him in a fight for the lordship. She had a daughter who died. She had relationships with both the king and Ragnar's brother, but neither panned out. However, she was not banned from the village, but remained in Ragnar's house and helped raise his family. His two young boys venture out onto the ice one day, and fall into the water. Siggy goes after them, and saves both of them. What's cool about the scene is that after she brings the boys back up, she sees her deceased daughter, which of course signifies her death and journey to Valhalla.

I think mothers often signify pureness of heart more than anyone else.
They are unspoken heroes who do heroic things with no thought for recognition or honor. They do those things because they're the right things to do.

(10-24-2015, 08:36 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]Considering those two definitions, original Sean intention in saving Juliette was jot pure since he was doing that for her... He was not doing that for Nick either. Sean was saving Juliette to keep Nick in Portland because of same hided and obscure intention.

Maybe the pure of heart potion was there to make Sean really cares about Juliette... Maybe the effects never really ended... That is a good debate.

*urgh* this is an issue I have with Grimm. These story strings that lead no where. It's three years into the future and we know no more than we did three years ago.

Since it's morning and I'm in a different frame of thought, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment. What if Sean was actually trying to obtain the key for a good reason and not for his own personal benefit? Would saving Juliette be proof of pureness of heart?

(10-24-2015, 08:36 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]Another point I would like to talk about is: how can someone became pure of heart chemically?

Biologically speaking, the heart has the only function of send blood to our body. Our brain is the one responsible to process our feelings, thoughts and intentions... Our brain would be the heart Jewish talk about.

There are a lot of Medicine drugs that act in our brain... For depression for exemple... Many ilegal drugs can also create illusions and things like that since they act in the brain. The potion gave to Sean can simply had acted in Sean brain... Changing his thoughts and this way his intentions...

Because Sean thought he was pure of heart, was he indeed pure of heart?