09-15-2017, 06:37 AM
Isn't that why Batman is so popular? Because he is the prototype for the morally grey hero character, unlike boring, perfect law abiding Superman (not the updated man of steel version).
09-15-2017, 06:37 AM
Isn't that why Batman is so popular? Because he is the prototype for the morally grey hero character, unlike boring, perfect law abiding Superman (not the updated man of steel version).
09-15-2017, 06:49 AM
Nick is a normal man who had to learn to deal with strange things.
He made the decisions that consider to be better and if fail at something, it is common. superman for me is an example of pataneria.
09-15-2017, 10:09 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2017, 10:10 AM by FaceInTheCrowd.)
(09-15-2017, 06:24 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: It's nigh impossible these days to find a character/protagonist/hero/heroine who does anything strictly by the book. Those characters have become unappealing to the millenials and have been rendered obsolete hence the rise and rise of grey characters who aren't afraid to step outside the moral/judicial boundaries, a "means justify the ends" propergation. Goes back to earlier than the millenials. "Dragnet" and "Adam-12" in the 70s, and even when they were still in production they were often ridiculed as propaganda pieces for the LAPD. A long history of LAPD incidents involving racial bias, brutality, evidence planting, drug theft and dealing and various other forms of corruption is probably one of the biggest reasons why nobody in Hollywood finds "by the book" cop characters credible any more.
09-15-2017, 02:15 PM
This debate has always centered around two types of viewer. Those who seen Grimm as a police story with grimm sideline and those who seen Grimm as a Grimm story with a police sideline. So we have Nick both police and Grimm so it only natural that the two types of views would see different sides to the series.
Those who wanted a straight police show thought Nick should resign if he wanted to be a Grimm the others didn't see a problem, so the character generated some good debates on the forum. So one who watch Grimm for the Grimm side of the series likes the character Nick others didn't. As was posted above the characters only acts the part that is written so if a character cause this sometime heat debate that alone shows the actor or actress pulled off the part.
09-15-2017, 02:29 PM
(09-15-2017, 02:15 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: This debate has always centered around two types of viewer. Those who seen Grimm as a police story with grimm sideline and those who seen Grimm as a Grimm story with a police sideline. I could see that, if the cops on conventional TV police shows were all operating within the rules and never crossing lines, but how far back does that scene go where the cops crinkle cigarette or candy wrappers and pretend they're having radio trouble so they can't hear their captains ordering them not to do what they're going to do? Before the invention of Color TV, I think.
09-15-2017, 02:47 PM
(09-15-2017, 02:15 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: This debate has always centered around two types of viewer. Those who seen Grimm as a police story with grimm sideline and those who seen Grimm as a Grimm story with a police sideline. So we have Nick both police and Grimm so it only natural that the two types of views would see different sides to the series. Well if you use your explanation on straight up cop shows where Nick should resign. I guess the TV show, “Law and Order” and all its variations would lose 90% of its police force and I guess all end up as Private Investigators. So, Nick would thread the line as a Grimm and PI. Ok I’ll buy that. Next question js, What about Renard. How do you stack him up as going by the book, then Hank, Wu. See where we are going? It doesn’t make sense. Again, in my non-medicated world. I was watching a show named “Grimm”. Not a show called, “How a Grimm Cop Follows the Law”. If I was watching a show with a cop/Grimm that was upsetting me because so many cops were breaking the laws. I would change channels. But Then, I’m not on any mind drugs.
You know you are OLD, when you see the Slide Ruler you used in college selling in an ANTIQUE SHOP!!
I saw Nick more as a Grimm than a cop. He was just naïve at the beginning of the show trying to adhere to the old rules in a new world. The cop side of the show was a vehicle through which to show the evolution of one particular grimm, as the writers often said. It wasn't an important part but more like it was a prop used to sell the show to the audience.
I realise there are three main careers for TV shows in the US: cops, lawyers and doctors. Of those three, it made sense to frame the show around a cop because it gave them the freedom to explore a wide world of wesen, first in a fairy tale like setup and then randomly after the pilot season. It was apparent from the first episode that Nick would never go by the book because of the premise of the show. Without exposing the underground world of wesen, Nick had no other choice but to skirt the law and meet out some form justice as best as he could if the current law was insufficient. It was unavoidable. What I liked was the progression from naïve Nick to weary Nick. He still did what he did from the beginning of the show but without the internal conflict. He wasn't there to change the world/make it better, only protect the innocent and stop the bad ones (wesen as well as people). At the beginning, the fight wasn't personal and in the end it was and he was faced with a tough choice. He stood his ground as a Grimm as the name of the show implies and I couldn't ask for more. The human laws will always be inefficient when pitted against a hidden secret (supernatural) world so I have no issues with characters like Nick colouring outside the lines in order to maintain the "spirit" of the law and not necessarily the "letter" of it. In Nick's case, he's heritage is a supernatural (higher) calling to serve and protect (as seen in the destruction of Z) as opposed to simply waking one morning and deciding to join the police force, although the latter is no less honourable by comparison.
09-15-2017, 04:43 PM
There seems to be a belief here that America has just recently started to look up to people who break or bend the law, but let us go down memory lane. Jessie James was a thief who shot passengers when they would not surrender their wallets. Billy the Kid, as ruthless a killer and cattle rustler as the West had, Bonnie and Clyde and the other bank robbers of the Depression, the bootleggers who sold rot gut(what their product did in real life), and others too numerous to mention. There are many theories why people look up to rule breakers and law flouters, but its a long and established tradition. And these were real people, not fictional ones.
09-15-2017, 06:18 PM
(09-15-2017, 04:43 PM)eric Wrote: There seems to be a belief here that America has just recently started to look up to people who break or bend the law, but let us go down memory lane. Jessie James was a thief who shot passengers when they would not surrender their wallets. Billy the Kid, as ruthless a killer and cattle rustler as the West had, Bonnie and Clyde and the other bank robbers of the Depression, the bootleggers who sold rot gut(what their product did in real life), and others too numerous to mention. There are many theories why people look up to rule breakers and law flouters, but its a long and established tradition. And these were real people, not fictional ones. It's even older than that. Remember Robin hood? (09-15-2017, 06:04 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Nick's never tried to "beat the system." Not according to the arguments I've read. He's applauded as a person who protects the innocent and is the "new kind of grimm". The way some posters go on and on and on, it seems wesen wouldn't have a chance without good ole Nick to watch out for their backs. (09-15-2017, 02:15 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: This debate has always centered around two types of viewer. Those who seen Grimm as a police story with grimm sideline and those who seen Grimm as a Grimm story with a police sideline. So we have Nick both police and Grimm so it only natural that the two types of views would see different sides to the series. Thank you js. Very well put. (09-15-2017, 04:43 PM)eric Wrote: There seems to be a belief here that America has just recently started to look up to people who break or bend the law, but let us go down memory lane. Jessie James was a thief who shot passengers when they would not surrender their wallets. Billy the Kid, as ruthless a killer and cattle rustler as the West had, Bonnie and Clyde and the other bank robbers of the Depression, the bootleggers who sold rot gut(what their product did in real life), and others too numerous to mention. There are many theories why people look up to rule breakers and law flouters, but its a long and established tradition. And these were real people, not fictional ones. Right.....right......right. But here's the other side of the issue. As I said, I hold our men in blue with high regard. If Grimm portrayed Nick and company as a group of active duty service men who burned our country's flag because wesen don't get a fair chance in the US, you can bet there'd be a HUGE outcry on the forum from offended posters, questioning how the show could portray our armed forces as anti-American. People have no issue calling Adalind a rapist, Nick a rapist, and Juliette whatever they can think of. There are just as many rebuttals that neither Adalind or Nick committed rape. But when it comes to a comment about Nick being a corrupt cop, all of the sudden the same people resort to the usual, "well, it's just a fantasy. Nick's not a corrupt cop. If you want a procedural, watch Law and Order". I don't hear anyone suggesting the movie, "The Accused" when the subject of rape comes up. I don't hear anyone recommending "Law and Order" when the debates come up about whether Juliette is guilty as an accomplice in Kelly's murder.
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
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