What changed Juliette into a Hexenbiest

[Karai9]

Correct. In fact after Juliet beat the S hit out of Adalind, she deduced that Nick must have his powers back because the two apparently go hand in hand. Juliet being a hexenbiest meant Nick is regrimmed. This actually leads me to believe that the hat specifically can suppress and reinstate the Grimm and hexenbiest conditions. If Adalind ever gets her powers back I think it will involve the hat again as Adriano pointed out.

I think it's interesting to note that the potion always passes through the hat as a part of the process.

The hat as Adriano points out has the power to take a potion and increase if effect change a Grimm back and forth and likely change a non hexen into hexen. @karai9 putting the hat in to the debate connects all the major events to the one common point.

Question was the hexen spirit in the hat or did the hat call up a hexen spirit? Sean death let Jack in so we have a story line for this effect. I lean toward the spirit being in the hat, the hexen place her hexen spirit with a spell or potion into the hat. Waiting for the time of rebirth into a non hexen.

This hat will become a key plot line again. Where else could you see it used?
[/quote]

Yes. I think it will,what with theme seeming to be "to have power or not to have power"
I think the spirit definitely came from the hat. Like some of the darkest most wicked hexens where trapped in the few hats that exist and only a few hexenbiest know that. Perhaps Adalind knew this having inherited the hat and that's why she knew why Juliet was a hexenbiest now.

You know it could be used to increase power as well now that I think about it. Perhaps Nick will seek to increase his power in his quest for revenge. I find this unlikely though. What are your thoughts?

[jsgrimm45]

Correct. In fact after Juliet beat the S hit out of Adalind, she deduced that Nick must have his powers back because the two apparently go hand in hand. Juliet being a hexenbiest meant Nick is regrimmed. This actually leads me to believe that the hat specifically can suppress and reinstate the Grimm and hexenbiest conditions. If Adalind ever gets her powers back I think it will involve the hat again as Adriano pointed out.

I think it's interesting to note that the potion always passes through the hat as a part of the process.

The hat as Adriano points out has the power to take a potion and increase if effect change a Grimm back and forth and likely change a non hexen into hexen. @karai9 putting the hat in to the debate connects all the major events to the one common point.

Question was the hexen spirit in the hat or did the hat call up a hexen spirit? Sean death let Jack in so we have a story line for this effect. I lean toward the spirit being in the hat, the hexen place her hexen spirit with a spell or potion into the hat. Waiting for the time of rebirth into a non hexen.

This hat will become a key plot line again. Where else could you see it used?

Yes. I think it will,what with theme seeming to be "to have power or not to have power"
I think the spirit definitely came from the hat. Like some of the darkest most wicked hexens where trapped in the few hats that exist and only a few hexenbiest know that. Perhaps Adalind knew this having inherited the hat and that's why she knew why Juliet was a hexenbiest now.

You know it could be used to increase power as well now that I think about it. Perhaps Nick will seek to increase his power in his quest for revenge. I find this unlikely though. What are your thoughts?
[/quote]I don't think Nick will have a use for the hat. He looked in season 3 to begin to control the zombie effect in the pasted he was being chocked or lack of breath, but when he grabbed Shaw he change because of anger. He has the hearing so he doesn't need the hat.

Good question on Adalind knowing her mother had the hat question even did she know the age of the hat? Elizabeth appears to be a more powerful hexen than either of them or at least has more of the old knowledge. Look how she brought Sean back the snake thing took some of her life force and healed Sean. How did she whip that up?

If wanted to add a new twist to the series I have Adalind use it to help Hank or Wu or both. Question would it be safe the change Hank or Wu into a zauberbiest even it could work that way. I have no idea how this would work so way out in left field on this one, but Hank did say when trying to take Nick the zombie down he wished he could do that.

Your hat ideas does add some much for possible speculations on it's uses in the future.

See anything here?

[Adriano Neres Rodrigues]

Correct. In fact after Juliet beat the S hit out of Adalind, she deduced that Nick must have his powers back because the two apparently go hand in hand. Juliet being a hexenbiest meant Nick is regrimmed. This actually leads me to believe that the hat specifically can suppress and reinstate the Grimm and hexenbiest conditions. If Adalind ever gets her powers back I think it will involve the hat again as Adriano pointed out.

I think it's interesting to note that the potion always passes through the hat as a part of the process.

The hat as Adriano points out has the power to take a potion and increase if effect change a Grimm back and forth and likely change a non hexen into hexen. @karai9 putting the hat in to the debate connects all the major events to the one common point.

Question was the hexen spirit in the hat or did the hat call up a hexen spirit? Sean death let Jack in so we have a story line for this effect. I lean toward the spirit being in the hat, the hexen place her hexen spirit with a spell or potion into the hat. Waiting for the time of rebirth into a non hexen.

This hat will become a key plot line again. Where else could you see it used?

Yes. I think it will,what with theme seeming to be "to have power or not to have power"
I think the spirit definitely came from the hat. Like some of the darkest most wicked hexens where trapped in the few hats that exist and only a few hexenbiest know that. Perhaps Adalind knew this having inherited the hat and that's why she knew why Juliet was a hexenbiest now.

You know it could be used to increase power as well now that I think about it. Perhaps Nick will seek to increase his power in his quest for revenge. I find this unlikely though. What are your thoughts?

I don't think Nick will have a use for the hat. He looked in season 3 to begin to control the zombie effect in the pasted he was being chocked or lack of breath, but when he grabbed Shaw he change because of anger. He has the hearing so he doesn't need the hat.

Good question on Adalind knowing her mother had the hat question even did she know the age of the hat? Elizabeth appears to be a more powerful hexen than either of them or at least has more of the old knowledge. Look how she brought Sean back the snake thing took some of her life force and healed Sean. How did she whip that up?

If wanted to add a new twist to the series I have Adalind use it to help Hank or Wu or both. Question would it be safe the change Hank or Wu into a zauberbiest even it could work that way. I have no idea how this would work so way out in left field on this one, but Hank did say when trying to take Nick the zombie down he wished he could do that.

Your hat ideas does add some much for possible speculations on it's uses in the future.

See anything here?
[/quote]



When Nick is attacked by a wesen he is affected by it. The zombie Nick for exemple. Who knows if this had already happened with the hat?


I mean... Nick was affected by the hats magic twice. Maybe he is already stronger now as a Grimm. Maybe the effects simply didn't appear yet. Maybe the Revenge bloody Nick is the result of the magic hat over Nick.

[jsgrimm45]

Correct. In fact after Juliet beat the S hit out of Adalind, she deduced that Nick must have his powers back because the two apparently go hand in hand. Juliet being a hexenbiest meant Nick is regrimmed. This actually leads me to believe that the hat specifically can suppress and reinstate the Grimm and hexenbiest conditions. If Adalind ever gets her powers back I think it will involve the hat again as Adriano pointed out.

I think it's interesting to note that the potion always passes through the hat as a part of the process.

The hat as Adriano points out has the power to take a potion and increase if effect change a Grimm back and forth and likely change a non hexen into hexen. @karai9 putting the hat in to the debate connects all the major events to the one common point.

Question was the hexen spirit in the hat or did the hat call up a hexen spirit? Sean death let Jack in so we have a story line for this effect. I lean toward the spirit being in the hat, the hexen place her hexen spirit with a spell or potion into the hat. Waiting for the time of rebirth into a non hexen.

This hat will become a key plot line again. Where else could you see it used?

Yes. I think it will,what with theme seeming to be "to have power or not to have power"
I think the spirit definitely came from the hat. Like some of the darkest most wicked hexens where trapped in the few hats that exist and only a few hexenbiest know that. Perhaps Adalind knew this having inherited the hat and that's why she knew why Juliet was a hexenbiest now.

You know it could be used to increase power as well now that I think about it. Perhaps Nick will seek to increase his power in his quest for revenge. I find this unlikely though. What are your thoughts?

I don't think Nick will have a use for the hat. He looked in season 3 to begin to control the zombie effect in the pasted he was being chocked or lack of breath, but when he grabbed Shaw he change because of anger. He has the hearing so he doesn't need the hat.

Good question on Adalind knowing her mother had the hat question even did she know the age of the hat? Elizabeth appears to be a more powerful hexen than either of them or at least has more of the old knowledge. Look how she brought Sean back the snake thing took some of her life force and healed Sean. How did she whip that up?

If wanted to add a new twist to the series I have Adalind use it to help Hank or Wu or both. Question would it be safe the change Hank or Wu into a zauberbiest even it could work that way. I have no idea how this would work so way out in left field on this one, but Hank did say when trying to take Nick the zombie down he wished he could do that.

Your hat ideas does add some much for possible speculations on it's uses in the future.

See anything here?

When Nick is attacked by a wesen he is affected by it. The zombie Nick for exemple. Who knows if this had already happened with the hat?

I mean... Nick was affected by the hats magic twice. Maybe he is already stronger now as a Grimm. Maybe the effects simply didn't appear yet. Maybe the Revenge bloody Nick is the result of the magic hat over Nick.
[/quote]Adding a point to what you said we don't know if Nick and Juliette were intimate after she became a hexen if Adalind took his power could Juliette have added something to it?

[dicappatore]

Hello again very interesting subject

Here's my take on hexenbiest in general and then onward to how I think Juliet became one.

One, we no that witches in Grimm are hexenbiest this appears to mean a person with a essentially evil spirit coexisting inside of them.

Evidence: When Nick took Adalind's powers, what looked like the ghost of a hag left her and then dissipated. When Rosalee told him he had to kill the hexenbiest who had cast the spell he thought she meant Adalind but she said the hexenbiest spirit. Hank was revived so I'm pretty sure the spirit died.
Also Adalind said when her mother was going through a hard time she considered suppressing the biest, which is what would have fixed Juliet. I think having the hexenbiest is like a split personality which can overwhelm you depending on who's stronger. Based on the ritual to become one it appears that through a series of cruel acts you prove that you are worthy to house and contend with such a foul spirit. Gathering the dead poppies is probably required as a further unsavory act; desecrating something that was once used to show kindness.

I believe Diana's rare almost pure blood heritage as a hexenbiest allowed her to not only inherit her parents powers but also take part in the ritual as well so she gained a hexenbiest as well. I believe Diana does not require a woge which is the visage of the actual biest because she is in pure form. That's what makes her so powerful.

Now I think in terms of the history Grimms and hexenbiest are poisonous to one another. For a low level hexenbiest Grimm blood can obliterate it. And sex with a hexenbiest can suppress a Grimms abilities including everything that makes them more than human. This however according to Elizabeth is very rare requiring multiple rare scenarios to have taken place. I do believe that a Grimm cannot carelessly sleep with a hexenbiest though.

I think that the spell to take Nick's powers turned Adalind into a three fold entity; Adalind, her biest and Juliet. Her already having Nick blood in her made her new biest impervious to his blood and him vulnerable to her. There was also certain kinky energy to the fake Juliet that Nick experienced when he was tricked (the actor mentioned this in an interview) and I think that was important because it signified that the biest was present as when he slept with Juliet as Adalind.

When Elizabeth was working on the potion and changed into Adalind she told Rosalee that it had to specifically be Juliet who was transformed into Adalind to fix Nick. I think the same trio had to perform the act but in reverse. Juliet, her biest and Adalind. Again the witchy energy was present because a biest was.

I think the reverse engineering of Adalind's potion especially using the ancient hat forced a new hexenbiest into being or awoke a very old one, taking residence in an unprepared, unworthy host. Juliet was in no way strong enough or evil enough to coexist with such a biest.
Besides Elizabeth commented on the power in the cloth of the classic wishes hat when talking to Sean even speculating that it was an original from the maleus maleficarum.

From there the hexenbiest rapidly took over finding plenty of anger for fuel until Juliet essentially crash and burned. The hexenbiest is probably gone back to sleep until a worthy host calls it up again with a spell or ritual.

Phew, that was ridiculously long. Feel free to break it down to digest it all. Eager to know how that works with your theories.

Reading back on some old posts. I came across this great synopsis on how and why Juliette became a Hexenbiest. Talk about the nitty-gritty, Karai9 left no stone unturned. And I accept it as a much better explanation on how the writers educated the viewers.

And here are my 2 cents. If Juliette is now possessed by another entity that is more powerful than the actual Juliette and has more control of the shared personality of the Juliette we all have learned to love and respect, what does it say about the new persona she has become?

I can see how she can use her memories of Juliette's resentment of nick. Become the more promiscuous woman she was in her earlier life. I can even justify the jealous Juliette finding out Nick had a son from another woman’s womb and would use those new-found powers for to get revenge. Burn the trailer, throws her best friend Rosalee across the spice shop, Monroe almost shot, and Yes, even killing Kelly, a Grimm and mortal enemy of the Hexeinbiest back to creation.

If she is now a different entity it does not excuse her from her actions. It gives us a great reason for her new behavior but the new entity is still the guilty one who committed all those atrocities. And unless Juliette can be separated back to her old self. She goes down guilty as charged. I feel bad for her but, it is what it is.

[brandon]

The spell was not to suppress the "Hexenbiest", I would say it was to lock her in.
The spirit "Hexenbiest" came shaking and came back in Adalind(4×20).
Adalind made a spell and use it to have sex with Nick. It was not a night of sex.
Juliette blamed everyone on what happened. She never spoke sincerely to anyone about what she felt and that would have been fine.
Let Kelly fall into the trap. When Kelly spoke to the house, Juliette said that was fine. Not moved by neighbors. That is to be a sadistic killer.

[Robyn]

I never considered the spell to be anything more than changing physical appearance for a brief time. Adalind was never confused about her identity, emotions, or her objective with Nick. She was in complete control the entire time. Also, there wasn’t any mention that Adalind wasn’t a Hexenbiest while the spell was in effect. The same with Juliette. She looked like Adalind but never behaved like Adalind and wasn’t confused over who/what she was. Eve and Nick didn’t lose their identities during or after transforming into Renard. So Juliette becoming a Hexenbiest permanently or even during the spell’s brief effect doesn’t add up. I think this is one of the many occasions that G & K needed something to happen, so it just happened, and the reversal spell was blamed without a specific explanation. Which led to much speculation, such as Elizabeth or Adalind altering the components unknowingly or purposely.

I don’t recall the characters referring to Hexenbiest as Wesen or a Wesen dying separately from it’s human form. A Grimm’s blood killing the Hexenbiest while leaving a human Adalind unharmed and a ritual providing a different Hexenbiest that Adalind then referred to as hers made me believe that the Hexenbiest is a witch/spirit/entity/whatever that resides in a host body. Uninterrupted the two are one, but if that union is disrupted by something such as Grimm blood the Hexenbiest leaves the host’s body and dies. Catherine’s death during her fight with Kelly didn’t result in her Hexenbiest existing in spirit form while seeking another host. The Hexenbiest and human body died as one. The suppressant required the organs of a dead Hexenbiest, not the host that once housed a Hexenbiest.

But as far as speculation, the Hexenbiest spirit coming from the hat makes the most sense to me. I just wish the show had the characters investigate and determine what happened during the spell that made Juliette a Hexenbiest instead of accepting it was one of the unknown side effects Elizabeth warned about. Adalind stated that if Juliette was a Hexenbiest Nick must be a Grimm again, but didn’t give a reason. And Adalind’s assumption may not be dependable since she didn’t even know fertilization was possible during the spell.

Did any character ever suggest that a human and Wesen/Hexenbiest or a Grimm and Wesen/Hexenbiest could produce a human child? The finale established Kelly became a Grimm but didn’t mention his Hexenbiest heritage from his mother’s side. Actually, the finale didn’t confirm Kelly physically became a Grimm, we just assumed he did. Kelly could have been a Zauberbiest following in his father’s Grimm footsteps.

[New Guy]

I never considered the spell to be anything more than changing physical appearance for a brief time. Adalind was never confused about her identity, emotions, or her objective with Nick. She was in complete control the entire time. Also, there wasn’t any mention that Adalind wasn’t a Hexenbiest while the spell was in effect. The same with Juliette. She looked like Adalind but never behaved like Adalind and wasn’t confused over who/what she was. Eve and Nick didn’t lose their identities during or after transforming into Renard. So Juliette becoming a Hexenbiest permanently or even during the spell’s brief effect doesn’t add up. I think this is one of the many occasions that G & K needed something to happen, so it just happened, and the reversal spell was blamed without a specific explanation. Which led to much speculation, such as Elizabeth or Adalind altering the components unknowingly or purposely.

I don’t recall the characters referring to Hexenbiest as Wesen or a Wesen dying separately from it’s human form. A Grimm’s blood killing the Hexenbiest while leaving a human Adalind unharmed and a ritual providing a different Hexenbiest that Adalind then referred to as hers made me believe that the Hexenbiest is a witch/spirit/entity/whatever that resides in a host body. Uninterrupted the two are one, but if that union is disrupted by something such as Grimm blood the Hexenbiest leaves the host’s body and dies. Catherine’s death during her fight with Kelly didn’t result in her Hexenbiest existing in spirit form while seeking another host. The Hexenbiest and human body died as one. The suppressant required the organs of a dead Hexenbiest, not the host that once housed a Hexenbiest.

But as far as speculation, the Hexenbiest spirit coming from the hat make the most sense to me. I just wish the show had the characters investigate and determine what happened during the spell that made Juliette a Hexenbiest instead of accepting it was one of the unknown side effects Elizabeth warned about. Adalind stated that if Juliette was a Hexenbiest Nick must be a Grimm again, but didn’t give a reason. And Adalind’s assumption may not be dependable since she didn’t even know fertilization was possible during the spell.

Did any character ever suggest that a human and Wesen/Hexenbiest or a Grimm and Wesen/Hexenbiest could produce a human child? The finale established Kelly became a Grimm but didn’t mention his Hexenbiest heritage from his mother’s side. Actually, the finale didn’t confirm Kelly physically became a Grimm, we just assumed he did. Kelly could have been a Zauberbiest following in his father’s Grimm footsteps.

Hi Robyn,
Good post! I believe viewers became frustrated by the inconsistencies and plot holes as you have pointed out. Some of us held on in hope that G&K would resolve these issues and redeem the show, but did not. IMO, G&K simply did not care and were ready to move on. So the Forum has free rein to speculate viable reasons.
N G

[brandon]

The genes that have the most force are imposed.

[Nicholas White]

Hexenbiest spirit coming from the Hat makes zero sense given that no Hexenbiest spirit was even used for the potion.

From my stand point of view:

When Juilette transformed into Adalind she copied her physical and spiritual form. Same when Nick transformed into Renard(he woged).

Once Juilette transformed back the replica of Adalind's Hexenbiest spirit either latched on entirely to Juilette creating a hexenbiest or residuals were left over of Adalind's spirit.

The how she became a hexenbiest can easily be explained away. What can't is the idea of why she would considered more powerful than Adalind when her power clearly comes from Adalind. At best in raw power she should be equal to Adalind. This however would only be is the full spirit latched on. If it was just residuals she would be way weaker.

Even using the excuse the Hat increased her powers don't work as why didn't it do the same for Adalind or Elizabeth? Both used the same spell and Hat.