12-16-2020, 10:29 AM
I hold Juliette guilty of murder regarding Kelly.
Juliette knew very well who hung out with so she couldn't plead innocence.
Juliette knew very well who hung out with so she couldn't plead innocence.
12-16-2020, 10:29 AM
I hold Juliette guilty of murder regarding Kelly.
Juliette knew very well who hung out with so she couldn't plead innocence.
So far, the only thing I have read that is being considered as a definitive point of guilt here is the email, and nailing her as an accomplice to murder, that's extremely dicey at best. Juliette was a tenant at the address, she had permission to use the computer, and the email reveals nothing about the plan.
Now, if you wanted to take this to a broader level, there is the possibility that she could be charged with human trafficking. However, at best, I think the most that could be thrown at her is an accessory to the fact. She told Nick she thought they only wanted Diana, and she didn't know Kenneth was going to kill Kelly. I'm not even sure Kenneth thought he was going to kill Kelly. It seems to me that if he wanted Kelly dead, why not get Diana out of the way and put a bullet in Kelly's head? Instead, there's this big scuffle with Kenneth then deciding to "take it outside", like he was giving Kelly a chance to maybe escape? For that matter, why didn't Kelly yell for Juliette? Instead Diana is left in the middle of the living room when Juliette comes down.
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12-16-2020, 03:13 PM
Oregon's "trafficking in persons" offense is a subset of kidnapping and the penalty is about the same as that for the lesser grades of homicide (causing death through negligence or recklessness). And if one is convicted of that, then the fact that someone died during its commission is what makes an offender subject to the homicide charge. IOW, you can be hit with both charges.
If you commit even the lowest grade "Class C" felony and someone dies during it, that's "felony murder."
12-16-2020, 06:05 PM
Juliette let them murder the neighbors.
this is a good example: Kelly: Juliette. Is everything okay? Thank God you're here. Um, Nick's not home, but I am, and the front door's unlocked. It's her, Kelly Burkhardt. She's got the kid. [door unlatches] [door shuts] [footsteps approaching] Kelly: Juliette? [snarls and man grunts] [Kelly cries out] [grunting and blows landing] Rispoli: Let's take this outside. [grunting and blows landing] [door shuts] Read more at: https://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org. (12-16-2020, 03:13 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Oregon's "trafficking in persons" offense is a subset of kidnapping and the penalty is about the same as that for the lesser grades of homicide (causing death through negligence or recklessness). And if one is convicted of that, then the fact that someone died during its commission is what makes an offender subject to the homicide charge. IOW, you can be hit with both charges. I believe Juliette could be charged with human trafficking. I'm not so certain she could be charged with Kelly's murder. A portion of the state law on the subject of murder: When it is committed by a person, acting either alone or with one or more persons, who commits or attempts to commit any of the following crimes and in the course of and in furtherance of the crime the person is committing or attempting to commit, or during the immediate flight therefrom, the person, or another participant if there be any, causes the death of a person other than one of the participants: Kidnapping in the second degree as defined in ORS 163.225 (Kidnapping in the second degree); (1)A person commits the crime of kidnapping in the second degree if, with intent to interfere substantially with another’s personal liberty, and without consent or legal authority, the person: (a)Takes the person from one place to another; or (b)Secretly confines the person in a place where the person is not likely to be found. Kidnapping in the second degree is a Class B felony. [1971 c.743 §98; 2005 c.22 §111] Kelly kidnapped Diana. Her intent was to interfere substantially with Diana's freedom. In order to accomplish that, she took her from Nick's house to a secret location. It's possible a jury may not assess a murder penalty against Juliette because of the legislation that definitely shows Kelly committed a felony kidnapping. The commonality here is Diana. They were all participants in her multiple kidnappings. Any guesses at the maximum penalty these people would get as the result of this mess?
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12-17-2020, 12:23 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2020, 01:07 AM by FaceInTheCrowd.)
If you play any role in any felony (for example, providing information about the targets) and during the commission of it anyone dies, from any cause, that constitutes homicide. If the intended victim runs away and gets killed by a car. If a bystander witnessing the crime dies of a heart attack. If the intended victim or a cop kills one of the perpetrators.
Any death during the crime, from any cause, and everyone involved is culpable. (12-17-2020, 12:23 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: If you play any role in any felony (for example, providing information about the targets) and during the commission of it anyone dies, from any cause, that constitutes homicide. If the intended victim runs away and gets killed by a car. If a bystander witnessing the crime dies of a heart attack. If the intended victim or a cop kills one of the perpetrators. I didn't say Juliette wasn't culpable and I didn't say it wasn't homicide. It is also murder and I said I'm not so sure Juliette could be charged with a murder since Kelly also kidnapped Diana. But from the standpoint of the forum, why do so many single out Juliette (and Juliette only) as the criminal in all of this? This seems to be the only line most can write........... "Well, Juliette betrayed Nick's mom!" What Juliette did counts as a fraction of all of it. Even that doofus Nick, who supposed to be the understanding one, with his silly line of "she trusted you". He doesn't even bother to ask why she did it. You mentioned Juliette lying to herself when she told Nick she thought they were going after Diana and she didn't know Kenneth was going to murder Kelly. Wasn't Nick lying to himself when all he can say is, "she trusted you"? In reality, all of the characters from Renard on down, would be going to trial on murder, kidnapping charges, conspiracy, and a host of others, you name it. Anyone left alive that night would be culpable, all the way down to the maids at the compound. Kelly wasn't the only one who died that night.
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12-17-2020, 02:09 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2020, 02:10 PM by FaceInTheCrowd.)
I see Juliette's role in assisting the home invasions and murders of her neighbors as far worse than her "betrayal" of Kelly. Kelly was a grimm and was used to living a dangerous life on the run. She should have known better than to trust an email and phone conversation with anyone and just walk in the front door with a child in hand. Even if Juliette hadn't turned bad, what if she was being coerced? The neighbors, OTOH, didn't have the slightest clue what was going on and were just minding their own business sitting in their houses or pulling into their garages.
And yes, just about everyone else had broken some law at some time. Renard, especially, probably committed enough crimes just in s01 to get put away for life. Adalind for attempted murder on Aunt Marie and for whatever she did to that guy she went after for Renard in s01 (not sure exactly how one might prosecute her for the taking of Nick's powers in s03). Nick, Hank, Wu, Monroe and Rosalee all actively covered up crimes by others (you can't be prosecuted just for not reporting, but if you actually help someone hide the evidence or get away, you can be). I think Bud and Franco are probably in the clear, though.
12-17-2020, 02:38 PM
It's not. Juliette sat down with Kernneth his verrat minions and for each of the houses surrounding hers and Nick's told him how many people lived in them, who they were and what she knew of their habits. IOW, she helped "case the joints." That was all the participation needed to make her culpable in anything the verrat did in those houses.
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