01-07-2022, 04:10 PM
You said the royals considered the Grimm knights as property. Why would they be rewarded with land?
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
01-07-2022, 04:10 PM
You said the royals considered the Grimm knights as property. Why would they be rewarded with land?
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
01-07-2022, 05:01 PM
I meant property in the same way that modern corporations see their employees as "human resources" rather than people. They still need to be compensated or they will quit.
In the 13th century lords could probably sic their knights on recalcitrant vassals, but if your knight quits you because you didn't reward him for his services, who's going to take the job of chasing him down because you didn't pay him for the job he did for you?
01-07-2022, 05:33 PM
Thank you for the explanation.
I never saw the Grimm knights as men who'd hang in the same area as the royals. I think the royals would consider them a resource, and a valuable one at that, but I think the knights would demand coin instead of land, as they already owned land from wherever they came from.
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
01-07-2022, 06:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2022, 07:57 PM by FaceInTheCrowd.)
In the Early Middle Ages, knights were mounted mercenaries for hire and would probably have been paid in portable treasure. By the Late Middle Ages, knights had become a class of lesser nobles, with land holdings and vassals of their own. The Fourth Crusade was during the High Middle Ages in between Early and Late, so we're probably looking at a mix, itinerant single mercenaries starting off with payment in portable treasure and over time rising in esteem in their sponsors' eyes until finally they have titles and lands conveyed to them. No telling where the seven grimm knights were, or if they were of similar status. Especially if they were coming from different countries.
Of course, whether or not they had titles and lands before they left on the Fourth Crusade is pretty much irrelevant, because once the royals found out they'd hidden the sacred mcguffin on them, they wouldn't anymore. They and whatever families they had would have had to go on the run for the next 800 years or so.
It's really difficult to tell from either Kelly's or Renard's story who has the facts about the Templars/knights/crusaders.
Both of their stories confirm they keys make a map and all seven point to the location of a treasure. We don't know if any of them were Templars, and we don't even know if they were knights. Renard never refers to them as knights, but instead calls them crusaders. We don't really know if they worked for the royals. Kelly says some of them did. Renard says nothing about them ever working for the royals. He doesn't even confirm that the wesen who apparently were slaves to the royals, ever existed, or that the royals needed Grimms to keep these wesen in control. He didn't even comment that the wesen fought for the royals. All he said is that these crusaders took it upon themselves to deceive the royal families. It's also possible these men were mercenaries who held no allegiance to anyone. That would have allowed them to fight in the sack of Constantinople, and whether they had lands prior to the bloodshed, is a moot point. I agree with that assessment. I don't know if the series ever mentioned these men again, other than for Rosalee's rendition, to which she prefaces her opinion by adding the words, "If I'm right....".
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
01-08-2022, 03:07 PM
Not surprising. We're talking about a story told from two opposing points of view. And given the time in which it all started, most of it was probably handed down through verbal history for generations before anyone wrote it down (Kelly showed Nick what she said was a page from one of the first of the family diaries, but never said how old it was).
01-09-2022, 09:11 AM
Back to a statement I made earlier, Monroe indicates that there was more than one Grimm who burned his grandfather's farm and dismembered the grandfather. We have means of communications that could easily make it possible for Grimms to contact one another. But back in the High Middle Ages, one Grimm coming in contact with another would be almost impossible due to the poor communications and the long distances people would have to travel.
When Renard tells Nick the crusaders took it upon themselves to deceive the royals families. I am wondering how these Grimms managed not only to get together, but formulate a plan to take this treasure.
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
01-09-2022, 01:36 PM
They were together at the sack of Constantinople because their royal patrons sent them there. We have no way of knowing if they knew each other at all before that.
And that's only if you believe Kelly's story. Renard says nothing about them other than they were crusaders who were intent upon deceiving the royals. It could even be said that the seven keys were made because the knights did not trust one another, so this prevented one of them from taking the treasure.
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
01-10-2022, 08:32 AM
The two descriptions don't disagree. If the grimms hadn't been working for the royals, they wouldn't have owed them anything and wouldn't have needed to try deceiving them.
|
|