07-19-2015, 04:07 AM
(07-18-2015, 08:15 PM)izzy Wrote:(07-18-2015, 05:55 AM)New Guy Wrote:(07-18-2015, 12:13 AM)izzy Wrote: I just don't see Renard as bad as you are painting him. I think via Monroe, who I think we all agree is a "good guy", we learned the Aunt Marie had less than a sterling reputation. Even on her death bed she was cantankerous and belligerent toward Monroe who was there to assist, demonstrating she labeled people based on stereotypes and made no allowance for the good of an individual, i.e she was about as racist as they come.
I think for Sean to try and get Aunt Marie offed might have been an intelligent reflex action. She did not appear known for her calm demeanor and deliberative skills. Think of it Aunt Marie arrives in Portland and you are wesen, what are you going to think, she is there for a social event?
And as I mentioned in another thread, Renard clearly has his underlings respect, and that is respect given by men and women who every day put their lives on the line based in large part on their ability to assess character. So I would find it a bit incredulous if they were that wrong. In the past I have posted information about some infamous law enforcement characters, I can tell you their juniors knew they had earned less than sterling reputations. Power and politics kept them in office not respect. Renard has the respect of his juniors.
And on the Renard - Juliette thing. It may be a generational thing but the guy code of my day pretty much states a friend twice removed as Renard is to Nick is allowed to poke your girl if she offers it up to him. You are still allowed to be ticked and punch him in the mouth, but men will be men and he is not in the circle of best friends with you, so she is fair game. Also, once again, we have never been privy much to the past of any characters but Monroe and Rosalee. For all we know,prior to Nick, Juliette had a lot of notches on her bed post and I have made the case a couple of times that it is logical to conclude she was slumming when she decided to start seeing Nick. So to a guy who reads women, Juliette may have been considered pretty easy. "We" don't know, because her past was never explored. In the end, Juliette ending in a strong, virile, authoritative man's bed may be very old news.
Anyways on all these points we differ, but, that diversity of opinion is the spice of life.
Hello Izzy,
I appreciate, but disagree with your comments.
The Oregon State Police Code of Ethical Conduct includes:
“The Superintendent acknowledges that the citizens of the State of Oregon rightfully expect and demand that the Oregon State Police epitomize the highest ideals of ethical and professional conduct. As an employee, I subscribe to and adopt the ideals set forth in the Code of Ethical Conduct.
As a peace officer, I am the image of penal law and its warden. If I am to be esteemed and the law I typify respected, I must know my authority well and use it wisely. I shall neither exceed nor abuse it.
During my private and public life, I shall conduct myself with the highest degree of integrity and honesty. I shall at all times conduct myself in a manner which consistently maintains the public trust.”
…
I expect PPD has a similar code of conduct. Renard, Nick, Hank and Wu have all violated ethical precepts. Marie came to Portland to pass along the family heritage to her nephew and then die in peace. Renard calling for the murder of Marie just to manipulate Nick cannot be tolerated even under the Code of Grimm. The writers say Nick will get revenge, so in October we will learn what that means.
…
Nick and Juliette were living together. He had proposed marriage to Juliette. He was emotionally “married” to her and they owed each other complete fidelity. Strong societies are built on marriages where the husband and wife are trustworthy and loyal to each other.
In a 2013 Gallup Poll that listed behaviors and societal realities that included porn, gambling, abortion, polygamy, and the death penalty, 91 percent of survey respondents flagged adultery as morally reprehensible. It drew a higher rate of disapproval than any issue on the survey. Instinctively, we sense that lying to and betraying the one person we’ve sworn fealty to is far worse than simply divorcing that person. Condemnation of divorce has decreased since 2001, but disapproval of adultery has held steady.
Renard was fully aware of Nick and Juliette’s committed relationship. I side with the 91% that the hate sex Renard and Juliette had was reprehensible. They both betrayed Nick. Renard is not in the circle of Nick’s friends. Renard is Nick’s captain and has a duty to help each of his officers maintain domestic tranquility. Renard’s fornication with Juliette was beyond betrayal. It was a heinous dereliction of duty. Juliette ended up dead. When Nick has revelation of what they did, Renard will pay a price. In the real world, the cuckold Nick would resign from PPD and recover. But this is Grimm and Nick is out for revenge.
I agree with your spice of life comment. I expect Grimm season 5 to be quite spicey!
New Guy
As an FYI, I read your comments carefully, gave them consideration and are not swayed by them in the slightest. I did consider them, but I really don't find Renard nailing the skanky version (or maybe the true version) of Juliette egregious. If he turned her down she would have gone down to the bar down the street, because it is fairly clear she was doing this to hurt Nick. A woman can sex any time she wants. Juliette was whoring around to spite Nick or because she was a horn dog. As I said we don;t know Juliette's background. She could have been a med/vet school geek and a 32 year old virgin when she met Nick for all I know, or she could have been a uniform groupie and passed around by half the police and fire departments. We don't know. So it is all conjecture. But Renard did what he did, as i said maybe half the force had already banged Juliette for all we know. I certainly am not going to judge the guy to harshly without knowing the background and motivations. All we were privy to was that the deed was done. For all we know if a hexenbeist vogues and they do not have sex they may die. The point being we were given just glimpses o fa storyline, we did not see the or get the real story, just an edited version.
Hi Izzy,
Morals come from God not humans. The Bible is clear about marriage and adultery. True human love only abides in a monogamous husband (man) and wife (woman) marriage. Sex outside of such a marriage is sin. Nick and Juliette both wanted to be married. They both went through hell as their relationship died.
What Renard and Juliette did was wrong. Renard's behavior as Nick's boss and Captain of the precinct was totally immoral and unethical. His betrayal of Nick was unconscionable.
King David sent his finest soldier, Uriah to his death to cover up adultery with Bathsheba. He paid a price for his sins.
Renard should also pay for his sins. He could repent and beg Nick to forgive him, but I do not see him as an honorable man.
New Guy