+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: Hexenbiestdom (/Thread-Hexenbiestdom)
RE: Hexenbiestdom - N_grimm - 10-27-2018
(10-27-2018, 03:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote:(10-27-2018, 02:27 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Adalind in S01-S04 is basically Grimm's Wile E. Coyote. Every scheme she cooks up eventually backfires on her.
Interesting observation. I am curious on how you would analyze, better yet compare Juliette in the last 6 or 7 episodes of S4, using the same critique or standards you just used on Adalind.
Yea, I would like to see that comparison to. By the way, Face, I like your ability to combine spot on observations with great humor. (That’s actually an ability you share with dicappatore).
(10-26-2018, 05:48 PM)irukandji Wrote: When you get to be the administrator of the forum, then you can decide what topics or statements are controversial. Until then, best to zip it, since you're trying to keep a decent tone.That won't be a problem, because I really don't know what to say. By the way, controversial mean that something is "open to discussion/question, under discussion". Why would a administrator want to stop a discussion (unless one participant telles another to "zip it")?
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 10-27-2018
(10-27-2018, 05:24 PM)N_grimm Wrote: Why would a administrator want to stop a discussion (unless one participant telles another to "zip it")?
Oh I think a participant deliberately baiting another with a pointless question would get the discussion stopped much sooner. You did, after all, admit that you went a bit over the top.
(10-27-2018, 05:24 PM)N_grimm Wrote: By the way, controversial mean that something is "open to discussion/question, under discussion".
I know what the word means, but thank you for so succinctly defining it. If, all you meant was that my views are open to discussion/question, or under discussion, then why follow it with such an odd statement?
"(I really try to keep a decent tone, but sometimes .....)"
RE: Hexenbiestdom - FaceInTheCrowd - 10-27-2018
(10-27-2018, 03:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: Interesting observation. I am curious on how you would analyze, better yet compare Juliette in the last 6 or 7 episodes of S4, using the same critique or standards you just used on Adalind.
Probably Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Especially toward the end, when Hyde takes over completely. Not a perfect analogy, since in Juliette's case the hexenbiest is an unplanned effect rather than the result of an intentional experiment. But the gradual takeover by the malevolent persona is reminiscent.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - N_grimm - 10-28-2018
(10-27-2018, 07:00 PM)irukandji Wrote:(10-27-2018, 05:24 PM)N_grimm Wrote: Why would a administrator want to stop a discussion (unless one participant telles another to "zip it")?
Oh I think a participant deliberately baiting another with a pointless question would get the discussion stopped much sooner. You did, after all, admit that you went a bit over the top.
(10-27-2018, 05:24 PM)N_grimm Wrote: By the way, controversial mean that something is "open to discussion/question, under discussion".
I know what the word means, but thank you for so succinctly defining it. If, all you meant was that my views are open to discussion/question, or under discussion, then why follow it with such an odd statement?
"(I really try to keep a decent tone, but sometimes .....)"
“but sometimes ....” the debate becomes heated – that’s all I meant.
"You did, after all, admit that you went a bit over the top". Yes, I did that on my own initiative, and THEN you followed up with "best to zip it". Stupid of me to try.
Your not exactly "Mother Teresa of debates" yourself.
Let me take this opportunity to say something about YOUR debating technique: You have stated that Juliette herself chose to become Eve, even though she was shot by Trouble, transformed into a weapon and only gradually got her personality back. You totally ignored that I pointed this out and continues to argue that it is the same person. You claimed that Adalind only stayed with Nick because she had no one else to turn to. But you refuse to answer WHY she then did not betray Nick and accept Renard’s offer to become "first lady of the city" (she had both children with her at the time). Can’t you see that this way of debating can be seen as provocative? I'm not the only one who has pointed this out...In fact, recently, four people have called your claims nonsense (I was one of them).
RE: Hexenbiestdom - dicappatore - 10-28-2018
(10-27-2018, 08:56 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:(10-27-2018, 03:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: Interesting observation. I am curious on how you would analyze, better yet compare Juliette in the last 6 or 7 episodes of S4, using the same critique or standards you just used on Adalind.
Probably Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Especially toward the end, when Hyde takes over completely. Not a perfect analogy, since in Juliette's case the hexenbiest is an unplanned effect rather than the result of an intentional experiment. But the gradual takeover by the malevolent persona is reminiscent.
I like it, thanks. See, I do enjoy others opinions.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 10-28-2018
(10-28-2018, 12:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: “but sometimes ....” the debate becomes heated – that’s all I meant.
"You did, after all, admit that you went a bit over the top". Yes, I did that on my own initiative, and THEN you followed up with "best to zip it". Stupid of me to try.
Your not exactly "Moder Teresa of debates" yourself.
Never said I was and I don't think anyone here is the model of debate. But then I didn't ask a pointless baiting question either, did I? By the way, I only meant that if you found yourself trying to keep a decent tone (as you yourself pointed out), it's best to zip it, meaning to remain silent. It's you who turned it in to something more.
You seem to view yourself as the epitome of forum etiquette. Why not ask what I meant instead of simply assuming I was stating something different?
(10-28-2018, 12:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: Let me take this opportunity to say something about YOUR debating technique: You claimed, for example, that Adalind killed Nick's aunt. When "everyone" pointed out that this was false, you just didn’t respond.
I've answered it before and I'll answer it now. She admitted it to Nick while in jail.
Well, let's talk about avoiding questions. You asked me why I watch Grimm. When I came back and asked you why you would ask a question that was none of your business, you chose to ignore the question.
Please do not hold yourself up as someone who responds to all points in a post. You chose to ignore questions. That is your right, just as it's mine to chose to ignore them.
(10-28-2018, 12:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: You have stated that Juliette herself chose to become Eve, even though she was shot by Trouble, transformed into a weapon and only gradually got her personality back.
Date and post number please.
(10-28-2018, 12:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: You totally ignored that I pointed this out. You claimed that Adalind only stayed with Nick because she had no one else to turn to. But you refuse to answer WHY she then did not betray Nick and accept Renard’s offer to become "first lady of the city" (she had both children with her at the time). Can’t you see that this way of debating can be seen as provocative? I'm not the only one who has pointed this out...In fact, recently, four people have called your claims nonsense (I was one of them).
I actually found several quotes where you mentioned Adalind not betraying Nick and accepting Renard's offer to become the first lady of the city. I do not, however, see where you posed a question to me about it.
Can you provide the post and date where you asked me to respond? Most of what I see are statements, not questions.
Here's the last quote you wrote about Adalind's opportunity to betray Nick, but she chose not to.
Quote:Adalind's feelings for Nick were tested in season 5 when she was forced to move in with Renard. She could have betrayed Nick but did not.
(10-28-2018, 12:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: Can’t you see that this way of debating can be seen as provocative? I'm not the only one who has pointed this out...In fact, recently, four people have called your claims nonsense (I was one of them).
I'm wondering why you can't see that your entire statement is provocative.
Furthermore, I don't get why you continue to debate with me then. Most posters would say what I've been told when a certain poster continued to badger me....Ignore him.
You have an ignore button. Use it.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - Henry of green - 10-28-2018
(10-28-2018, 01:15 PM)irukandji Wrote:(10-28-2018, 12:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: “but sometimes ....” the debate becomes heated – that’s all I meant.
"You did, after all, admit that you went a bit over the top". Yes, I did that on my own initiative, and THEN you followed up with "best to zip it". Stupid of me to try.
Your not exactly "Moder Teresa of debates" yourself.
Never said I was and I don't think anyone here is the model of debate. But then I didn't ask a pointless baiting question either, did I? By the way, I only meant that if you found yourself trying to keep a decent tone (as you yourself pointed out), it's best to zip it, meaning to remain silent. It's you who turned it in to something more.
You seem to view yourself as the epitome of forum etiquette. Why not ask what I meant instead of simply assuming I was stating something different?
(10-28-2018, 12:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: Let me take this opportunity to say something about YOUR debating technique: You claimed, for example, that Adalind killed Nick's aunt. When "everyone" pointed out that this was false, you just didn’t respond.
I've answered it before and I'll answer it now. She admitted it to Nick while in jail.
Well, let's talk about avoiding questions. You asked me why I watch Grimm. When I came back and asked you why you would ask a question that was none of your business, you chose to ignore the question.
Please do not hold yourself up as someone who responds to all points in a post. You chose to ignore questions. That is your right, just as it's mine to chose to ignore them.
(10-28-2018, 12:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: You have stated that Juliette herself chose to become Eve, even though she was shot by Trouble, transformed into a weapon and only gradually got her personality back.
Date and post number please.
(10-28-2018, 12:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: You totally ignored that I pointed this out. You claimed that Adalind only stayed with Nick because she had no one else to turn to. But you refuse to answer WHY she then did not betray Nick and accept Renard’s offer to become "first lady of the city" (she had both children with her at the time). Can’t you see that this way of debating can be seen as provocative? I'm not the only one who has pointed this out...In fact, recently, four people have called your claims nonsense (I was one of them).
I actually found several quotes where you mentioned Adalind not betraying Nick and accepting Renard's offer to become the first lady of the city. I do not, however, see where you posed a question to me about it.
Can you provide the post and date where you asked me to respond? Most of what I see are statements, not questions.
Here's the last quote you wrote about Adalind's opportunity to betray Nick, but she chose not to.
Quote:Adalind's feelings for Nick were tested in season 5 when she was forced to move in with Renard. She could have betrayed Nick but did not.
(10-28-2018, 12:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: Can’t you see that this way of debating can be seen as provocative? I'm not the only one who has pointed this out...In fact, recently, four people have called your claims nonsense (I was one of them).
I'm wondering why you can't see that your entire statement is provocative.
Furthermore, I don't get why you continue to debate with me then. Most posters would say what I've been told when a certain poster continued to badger me....Ignore him.
You have an ignore button. Use it.
N Grimm- was just pointing out that your statment about Adalind having no option but to stay loyal and kind to Nick is false, as BC and Renard offers her a far batter option yet she fought them at every turn not to go along with their plan, to the point were Boneparte had to magically force an engagement ring on her hand that would hurt her children to try and force her to be with Renard and even Diana couldn’t force her to betray Nick with Renard.
That’s hardly someone with no options and even when Boneparte was dead she had the option to stay with Renard, she could’ve beeen the Portland Mayors wife and use her powerful daughter to basically rule the city with Renard but instead she chose to help bring down Renard and left him and a mansion to return to Nick in the paint factor.
Remember Renard is a man she had a major crush/ love for in the pasts in seasons she would’ve basically done anything for a glimmer of his affection in season 1, yet when offered the man in season 5 and 6 along with a mansion and powerful organization backing them as Mayor and wife of Portland she chose loyalty to Nick.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 10-28-2018
(10-28-2018, 02:14 PM)Henry of green Wrote: was just pointing out that your statment about Adalind having no option but to stay loyal and kind to Nick is false, as BC and Renard offers her a far batter option yet she fought them at every turn not to go along with their plan, to the point were Boneparte had to magically force an engagement ring on her hand that would hurt her children to try and force her to be with Renard and even Diana couldn’t force her to betray Nick with Renard.
I know this was directed to N_grimm, but I must point something out here. Adalind didn't fight BC at every turn. When she was threatened by them, instead of staying with Nick, she went to the mansion. She stood at Renard's side.
Why was that?
RE: Hexenbiestdom - Henry of green - 10-28-2018
(10-28-2018, 02:27 PM)irukandji Wrote: [quote='Henry of green' pid='72680' dateline='1540761261']
was just pointing out that your statment about Adalind having no option but to stay loyal and kind to Nick is false, as BC and Renard offers her a far batter option yet she fought them at every turn not to go along with their plan, to the point were Boneparte had to magically force an engagement ring on her hand that would hurt her children to try and force her to be with Renard and even Diana couldn’t force her to betray Nick with Renard.
I know this was directed to N_grimm, but I must point something out here. Adalind didn't fight BC at every turn. When she was threatened by them, instead of staying with Nick, she went to the mansion. She stood at Renard's side.
Why was that?
She went to the mansion after Boneparte came to her work threatened her children, threatened kill her and Nick, also Diania begged her to come to the mansion. She then left for the mansion in order to protect her children and Nick as she said in the note she left Nick.
She is only at the mansion for a week tops according to the Grimm wiki timeline, that week ultimately leads to the downfall of BC so in hindsight her going to the mansion was actually the smartest thing to do especially considering BC basically had Diania under thier control at that point with Renard on thier side.
At the mansion she rings Nicks phone only Wu picks up, she tells Wu to tell Nicks she loves him and is about to say if there’s anything Nick needs she will help only Renard interrupts the phone call before she can Finish.
Also once at the mansion she refused to be in a relationship with Renard even when forced by two of the most powerful beings ever on the show to do so.
Boneparte has to turn her to stone after she tells him she’ll never want Sean as he’s not her type how , how exactly is that choosing Sean.
Adalind then uses Diania to help save/warn the gang after Boneparte force chokes the information of Nick location out of her. She threatens to kill Renard in season 6 if he hurts Nick she also helps the gang with the ingredients to the spell that brings down Renard in 6x03.
If she was at Renards side as you claim why was she so repulsed by him, she was actually even upset he wasn’t killed in 6x01 after he and Boneparte tried to kill Nick, her exact words what are you doing still alive.
You are clearly incredibly bias agianst Adalind as usual she didn’t chose Renards side she chose to try and protect her daughter, would you prefer she just left Diania to be controlled by BC and Renard.
She refuses to lie infornt of a courtroom when Renard asks her to yet she happily risks going to jail by lying to the court for Nick.
By the way this discussion over you cleary just ignored the entire show if you believe she chose to be at Renards side.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 10-28-2018
So then it could be theoried that Adalind didn't believe Nick could protect her from Bonaparte.
(10-28-2018, 02:46 PM)Henry of green Wrote: You are clearly incredibly bias agianst Adalind as usual she didn’t chose Renards side she chose to try and protect her daughter, would you prefer she just left Diania to be controlled by BC and Renard.
No, I would prefer she go to Nick and ask for his help. After all, what I've been reading is that she's loyal to Nick.