(08-03-2018, 07:51 PM)syscrash Wrote: The premise was that sex using deception is rape. You do not quantify the rape. So why are you quantifying the how. What does how she got into the house, or what she gained have to do with determining if it is rape. You say they are different. My example used a method that is actually done. Using surgery to look like someone else. Adalind used magic. The question is one of consent. You say because he thought it was Juliette he did not consent to Adalind. In my example if they say yes to the person they met in the bar. Only took wake an found out it was not who they thought it was. Did they consent.

(08-03-2018, 07:51 PM)syscrash Wrote: You point out that she became Juliette, even to the DNA. Would that not make a DNA test on Kelly come back as Juliette and Nick are the parents. We then saw the Eve could not perform as Sean. Makes since they are not the person , they only look like the person. That means they may be able to mimic the person but would not act like the person.

(08-03-2018, 07:09 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:

(08-03-2018, 06:41 PM)New Guy Wrote: This is one of those times we get to make up whatever we want. The EveNard in the scene was able to fool Rachel:

Or was she?

Consider the scene and their next time in bed:

From 516 (Rachel and "Renard"):
Rachel: It's all right.
Eve: This has never happened to me before.
Rachel: Don't worry about it. Let's, um... let's start with your questions.
Eve: Yes, okay.
Rachel: And we can try again. Like we did last time. [She woges]

And from 517 (Rachel and real Renard):
Rachel: Well, that more than makes up for last time.
Renard: Wait, what?
Rachel: [She kisses Renard's shoulder] Exactly. Never even happened.

(08-03-2018, 06:17 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(08-02-2018, 04:31 PM)syscrash Wrote: As for Adalind using deception making it rape would make most people after a nigh out be rapist. There are thousands of pick up at bars, and I bet most involve some form of deception. From the guys pretending to be rich and important. To the women using makeup and other enhancements to look better then what they are. Is it rape if you wake up to find the hot blond lawyer you took home last night. Is actually a balding, middle aged, over weight, hooker.

I think there's a great deal of difference in Adalind's actions. For one, she invaded Nick and Juliette's house. Whether you want to term it as a home invasion, break in, or trespass, it still comes down to the same thing. She was there without invite. If you want to apply the law there, that is an illegal activity.

Second, her purpose there was to injure Nick and she did injure Nick. She took his grimm powers. Just because the injury is invisible and we don't know the long term ramifications doesn't make it somehow different than if she'd have gone in there and beat the hell out of him while she had sex with him.

Third, Adalind's method of deception involves changing into the form of a completely different person. Sex by deception may not be a crime in some states, but I wonder if this might be viewed as identity theft. Could it be proven? It might be. We assume that just because Adalind turned into Juliette, she was Juliette from head to foot. It's possible Adalind may have left her DNA behind.

I'm not for one minute stating rape won't ever occur in a pickup situation, but that isn't always the case.

(08-02-2018, 04:31 PM)syscrash Wrote: When the subject first came up. I commented there is no way Nick would not have known that was not Juliette. Even if it did look like Juliette. Are you saying if blindfolded you could not tell if someone kissing you was not you significant other. I can tell even if one of my girlfriends friends is sending a tweet pretending to be her. As a couple there are little clues that only you two know. The writers even added dialog of Nick acknowledging something was different.

I do agree with to an extent because I watch a lot of Judge Judy and girlfriends pretending to be the other girlfriend happens all of the time. In addition, Nick should have at least been questioning why "Juliette" wanted sex after having her hair done before the wedding. I do agree she probably would have reacted differently in bed, beginning with her kiss.

As much as I don't like Nick, this is one area where I do believe the writers were aware that Adalind was committing rape, but covered it up by having Nick act like some drooling moron who's only mission was to have a whopping good time in bed.

(08-04-2018, 06:47 AM)brandon Wrote: Juliette had the DNA test done to the supposed animal that attacked the horses.
Those hairs were from a Wesen in "Woge",that a serious part of an ape and another human.A mixture of two different species,a chimera, which was strange because there are usually such things.
A dog with wolf genes would be normal but this would be very weird

(08-04-2018, 12:14 AM)irukandji Wrote: Let me put it this way then. Adalind wasn't trying to "pick up" Nick at his house. She didn't convince him she was rich and important, nor did she deceive him by putting on a lot of make up or enhancements to make her look better.

She broke into his house to violate him and take away his grimm powers. She changed herself into Juliette to do so and not once did she reveal herself as Adalind to him.

Wearing makeup, telling tall tales, using "enhancements" are not deceptions aimed at an end result of rape. Women and men go to bars for different reasons. I don't see how your example compares to what Adalind did. Her reactions are not typical of someone going to a bar and in my opinion, should not be compared to that type of activity.

(08-04-2018, 07:00 AM)dicappatore Wrote:

(08-04-2018, 06:47 AM)brandon Wrote: Juliette had the DNA test done to the supposed animal that attacked the horses.
Those hairs were from a Wesen in "Woge",that a serious part of an ape and another human.A mixture of two different species,a chimera, which was strange because there are usually such things.
A dog with wolf genes would be normal but this would be very weird

You point out an interesting piece of factual scene. To me, this had less to do than Juliette trying to prove the existing possibility of some type of unknown hybrid and more to do with her mistrust of Nick.

With her knowing this fact of this DNA inconsistency. You would expect for her to at least lend Nick an ear, later on in the show, when he was trying to open her up to his Wesen world. Instead, her superlative higher educated attitude just dismissed him as a lower educated insignificant other.

Hey, how's that for "writer's intent"?

(08-04-2018, 09:00 AM)Hell Rell Wrote:

(08-04-2018, 07:00 AM)dicappatore Wrote:

(08-04-2018, 06:47 AM)brandon Wrote: Juliette had the DNA test done to the supposed animal that attacked the horses.
Those hairs were from a Wesen in "Woge",that a serious part of an ape and another human.A mixture of two different species,a chimera, which was strange because there are usually such things.
A dog with wolf genes would be normal but this would be very weird

You point out an interesting piece of factual scene. To me, this had less to do than Juliette trying to prove the existing possibility of some type of unknown hybrid and more to do with her mistrust of Nick.

With her knowing this fact of this DNA inconsistency. You would expect for her to at least lend Nick an ear, later on in the show, when he was trying to open her up to his Wesen world. Instead, her superlative higher educated attitude just dismissed him as a lower educated insignificant other.

Hey, how's that for "writer's intent"?

That's quite the spin. How did you get to that conclusion? Juliette saw that there was DNA from two different species. That's a fact. I don't really see how this was used to show her mistrust of Nick. She didn't know he was a Grimm or about wesen and she did go to med school. Her higher education did matter in this case.