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+--- Thread: Hexenbiestdom (/Thread-Hexenbiestdom)
RE: Hexenbiestdom - dicappatore - 07-26-2018
(07-26-2018, 02:44 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:(07-26-2018, 04:05 AM)irukandji Wrote: Actually, Catherine shows herself to be something different than a standard witch. I've never heard of a hexenbiest being indebted to a zauerbiest before, especially since the hexenbiests appear to be more powerful and resourceful than their male counterparts. To complicate matters, both hexenbiests have romantic ties to the zauerbiest, which sets both of them apart from the norm.
I always wondered about that "debt." I doubt it was just monetary; even with whatever Sean made off "tribute" from wesen criminals added to his police captain's salary he would still need help from his mother to buy a house in S03. My guess is that at some time in the past Sean provided Catherine with some sort of service, or Catherine committed some sort of offense again him that resulted in her owing service.
I have no idea what "the norm" is for hexenbiest/zauberbiest relations, except that the two pairs that we know of (Adalind's parents and Adalind and Sean) were not good at LTRs.
The impression I got was that Catherine was just another common Hex. She was looking to appease people in power as Hexenbiest tend to attach themselves to those types. Early on season 1, she was getting her marching orders from a member of the Royal family Sean, whom just happened to also be a half arsed Zauberbiest. Her following had more to do with him being a Royal that a Wesen.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - FaceInTheCrowd - 07-26-2018
I expect there was all that, but there was specific mention of a debt Catherine owed Sean, and that Adalind's service to him was connected to it, at least at the start. They just never expounded on it.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - dicappatore - 07-26-2018
(07-26-2018, 06:16 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: I expect there was all that, but there was specific mention of a debt Catherine owed Sean, and that Adalind's service to him was connected to it, at least at the start. They just never expounded on it.
Obviously Catherine was not using her powers to stay young like Elizabeth. Could it have been the debt was due to him, a manly younger looking guy, bedding an ugly old witch?
RE: Hexenbiestdom - Henry of green - 07-27-2018
(07-26-2018, 04:05 AM)irukandji Wrote:(07-25-2018, 07:17 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Adalind feeling worthless and wanting revenge aren't exclusive. We saw what she was capable of without her biest but she was still desperate to get it back. There was no Diana or Kelly at the time. Being a Hexenbiest was the only thing worthwhile for Adalind. She chose that over the $750,000 she was being offered for giving birth to a girl.
Putting aside what Adalind told Rosalee in season 5, is it possible that the hexenbiest spirit is a sort of companion to Adalind's human side? I still don't think she feels worthless without it, but maybe there's a loneliness there that would eventually destroy her unless resolved?
(07-25-2018, 08:17 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Catherine Schade was the template for the volatile, scheming hexenbiest personality described in the Grimm book and by Monroe and Rosalee (or maybe it was the other way around). The discussion of what hexenbiests were like was in connection to Catherine's visits to the spice shop. Catherine's concept of her daughter's worth was primarily based on how powerful she was as a hexenbiest and what she could do for Mom.
Adalind had a definite love-hate relationship with her mother. She credited mom with teaching her and allowed herself to be committed to becoming Renard's vassal in repayment of her mother's debt, and yet she later told Rosalee that she was a "nerd student" because she wanted to prove that she was nothing like her.
Actually, Catherine shows herself to be something different than a standard witch. I've never heard of a hexenbiest being indebted to a zauerbiest before, especially since the hexenbiests appear to be more powerful and resourceful than their male counterparts. To complicate matters, both hexenbiests have romantic ties to the zauerbiest, which sets both of them apart from the norm.
It’s a bit of a stretch to claim Hexenbiests are more powerful than Zauberbiests considering Boneparte the only full zuaberbiest on the show defeated the super Hexenbiest Eve, he also clearly intimidated both Renard and Adalind. Infact I would argue besides Diania and Zerstorer he is probably the most powerful character on the show and he’s a zauberbiest.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - dicappatore - 07-27-2018
(07-27-2018, 02:55 AM)Henry of green Wrote:(07-26-2018, 04:05 AM)irukandji Wrote:(07-25-2018, 07:17 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Adalind feeling worthless and wanting revenge aren't exclusive. We saw what she was capable of without her biest but she was still desperate to get it back. There was no Diana or Kelly at the time. Being a Hexenbiest was the only thing worthwhile for Adalind. She chose that over the $750,000 she was being offered for giving birth to a girl.
Putting aside what Adalind told Rosalee in season 5, is it possible that the hexenbiest spirit is a sort of companion to Adalind's human side? I still don't think she feels worthless without it, but maybe there's a loneliness there that would eventually destroy her unless resolved?
(07-25-2018, 08:17 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Catherine Schade was the template for the volatile, scheming hexenbiest personality described in the Grimm book and by Monroe and Rosalee (or maybe it was the other way around). The discussion of what hexenbiests were like was in connection to Catherine's visits to the spice shop. Catherine's concept of her daughter's worth was primarily based on how powerful she was as a hexenbiest and what she could do for Mom.
Adalind had a definite love-hate relationship with her mother. She credited mom with teaching her and allowed herself to be committed to becoming Renard's vassal in repayment of her mother's debt, and yet she later told Rosalee that she was a "nerd student" because she wanted to prove that she was nothing like her.
Actually, Catherine shows herself to be something different than a standard witch. I've never heard of a hexenbiest being indebted to a zauerbiest before, especially since the hexenbiests appear to be more powerful and resourceful than their male counterparts. To complicate matters, both hexenbiests have romantic ties to the zauerbiest, which sets both of them apart from the norm.
It’s a bit of a stretch to claim Hexenbiests are more powerful than Zauberbiests considering Boneparte the only full zuaberbiest on the show defeated the super Hexenbiest Eve, he also clearly intimidated both Renard and Adalind. Infact I would argue besides Diania and Zerstorer he is probably the most powerful character on the show and he’s a zauberbiest.
Henry, this is what you get when you follow this contributor down the rabbit hole that has either lousy access to media that was broadcasting the Grimm Series in its entirety or this contributor has some mentally or physical comprehension difficulties.
Obviously comparing a full blow Hex like Catherine Shade, when she was alive, to a Sean Renard and forgetting that what made him more dominating than Catherine had nothing to do with his Zouberbiest abilities. Sean is or was unlike Bonaparte. He was a product of a normal human, the King and Elizabeth, a Hex. Sean was just a lousy half Zouberbiest unlike Bonaparte, a full blown one.
Remember when Sean woged, he was NOT in a full blown woge like Bonaparte or any on the many Hexes. Now, I am sure we can all recall Sean being intimidating to a few Wesen when he showed his Wesen face but they were just pain Wesen, none were Hexes.
That is why Bonaparte could wipe the floor with Sean Renard. Not just because he was a BC leader, He was a full blown Zoub/Hex just like Catherine Shade could if she wanted to. Just one more fact easily dismissed by some, yet keep dwelling on half arsed facts such as a debt owed to Sean by Catherine that they just never expounded on. Yet, keep overlooking the many times Sean being a royal and Hexes kissing royal arses was constantly expounded on.
Just look back when Adalind moved back with Sean when he was running for mayor. Adalind showed plenty of fear of Bonaparte but she sure wasn't afraid of Sean or on his beckon call. Once she got over his Royal Highness Worship-mess, as she was in the first 4 seasons and Adalind's suppression potion had worn off, Sean was very well aware of her overpowering ability of him. Something I wish some of the viewers could realize when making these comments.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - brandon - 07-27-2018
I think it is due to nothing had to do with money, but for some service.
Being the police chief controlled the wesen that there would be,had ordered the head of the fight, who could fight.
it's not that he was corrupt, but that he controlled what the "Wesen affairs"
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 07-27-2018
(07-27-2018, 02:55 AM)Henry of green Wrote: It’s a bit of a stretch to claim Hexenbiests are more powerful than Zauberbiests considering Boneparte the only full zuaberbiest on the show defeated the super Hexenbiest Eve, he also clearly intimidated both Renard and Adalind. Infact I would argue besides Diania and Zerstorer he is probably the most powerful character on the show and he’s a zauberbiest.
Really? So you think Bonaparte is more powerful than, say.........Diana?
RE: Hexenbiestdom - Hell Rell - 07-27-2018
(07-27-2018, 09:07 AM)irukandji Wrote:(07-27-2018, 02:55 AM)Henry of green Wrote: It’s a bit of a stretch to claim Hexenbiests are more powerful than Zauberbiests considering Boneparte the only full zuaberbiest on the show defeated the super Hexenbiest Eve, he also clearly intimidated both Renard and Adalind. Infact I would argue besides Diania and Zerstorer he is probably the most powerful character on the show and he’s a zauberbiest.
Really? So you think Bonaparte is more powerful than, say.........Diana?
He said besides Diana and Zerstorer.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 07-27-2018
(07-27-2018, 10:32 AM)Hell Rell Wrote:(07-27-2018, 09:07 AM)irukandji Wrote:(07-27-2018, 02:55 AM)Henry of green Wrote: It’s a bit of a stretch to claim Hexenbiests are more powerful than Zauberbiests considering Boneparte the only full zuaberbiest on the show defeated the super Hexenbiest Eve, he also clearly intimidated both Renard and Adalind. Infact I would argue besides Diania and Zerstorer he is probably the most powerful character on the show and he’s a zauberbiest.
Really? So you think Bonaparte is more powerful than, say.........Diana?
He said besides Diana and Zerstorer.
okay I misread it. Doesn't that still make Diana more powerful then?
RE: Hexenbiestdom - Hell Rell - 07-27-2018
(07-27-2018, 11:14 AM)irukandji Wrote:(07-27-2018, 10:32 AM)Hell Rell Wrote:(07-27-2018, 09:07 AM)irukandji Wrote:(07-27-2018, 02:55 AM)Henry of green Wrote: It’s a bit of a stretch to claim Hexenbiests are more powerful than Zauberbiests considering Boneparte the only full zuaberbiest on the show defeated the super Hexenbiest Eve, he also clearly intimidated both Renard and Adalind. Infact I would argue besides Diania and Zerstorer he is probably the most powerful character on the show and he’s a zauberbiest.
Really? So you think Bonaparte is more powerful than, say.........Diana?
He said besides Diana and Zerstorer.
okay I misread it. Doesn't that still make Diana more powerful then?
There's no dispute that Diana is easily the most powerful and by a wide margin. But that's only as a result of what happened to Adalind and the special ritual she went through.
He used Eve as an example because she was a Super Hexenbiest that was pretty much bred for combat and Bonaparte defeated her. The rest of BC created a distraction specifically to avoid facing her in battle yet Bonaparte soloed her. There was no indication of him being some type of rare Zauberbiest so that speaks to the power of one.
As for Catherine's debt to Renard, there was never any hint to what it was but I doubt it had anything to do with him being a Zauberbiest. I think Renard being a royal had a lot more to do with Catherine and Adalind's subservience to him.
In a related note, Diana was a result of Adalind wanting to have a child with royal blood. She knew that was the key to the sale and not any type of power she would have.