(02-21-2018, 12:37 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: In Nick's case, the wilderness analogy works a lot better if the wesen are the hikers panicking when they see the snake. The ones who survive the encounter are the ones who are smart enough not to try attacking.

(02-21-2018, 07:52 PM)Hell Rell Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 05:06 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 10:01 AM)eric Wrote: I didn't say the boa is attacking you, I said it got in your boat, maybe to catch a few rays, what do you do? Admire the skin pattern or kill it--honestly now, really? And don't say jump in the water, there are alligators there. I say the wessen have only two choices--fight or flight. Grimms have the advantage that the wessen fear them, all the way down to the bone.

Okay, this is what I get out of your analogy. Person in boat=grimm. Boa=wesen.

The boa, according to this analogy, has three choices. It can attack, it can simply sun itself, or it can go back to whence it came. Right?

The person, on the other hand, has no choice. You've removed the option of escape. I don't count watching the boa sun itself because the boat is the person's territory. Said boa has come into the territory and poses a threat. The only option available to the person is to defend their boat against the invader.

A grimm may be put into the position where the only method of defense is to kill. I'm not saying that could never happen. I'm just saying that I believe there have been encounters between wesen and grimms that didn't result in death or injury. Instead both were intelligent enough to assess the futility of death and decided to simply leave one another alone.

---

(02-21-2018, 10:22 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: In order to continue this debate, I think we really need to see some example on the show where Nick killed a wesen without provocation. That was thrown out there earlier so there needs to be some proof that anyone can provide if that's true.

Is this question in regard to something I wrote?

I think he was describing Grimms as the Boa rather than the wesen. He was explaining how wesen see Grimms and why they attack them.

As for the question, it was in response to you saying:

---

(02-20-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: Here's what I see with Eric's analogy; wesen who woge automatically present a deadly threat. Nick, grimm hunter, is justified in killing said wesen. There's no room for choices. That's it, plain and simple.

It could be that you were saying that as an analysis of his analogy rather than your own opinion so I'll retract what I said if that's case.

If not, then I made a request for proof. That really isn't what he said in his analogy because he was talking about how wesen see Grimms.

Quote:Okay, I apologize, I am sorry, I failed to be clear in my writing. I will try to be more precise in the future. The wolf in the woods, the boa in the boat I meant to be a Grimm. "You" in the woods and the boat and all the wessen we saw in the show were wessen who had just met their childhood monsters who would kill them if they woged. My belief is that any sane wessen either fled or tried to kill the GRIMM on the spot before he/she could kill them. I still do not understand how Rolex could have lived to his advanced age without upsetting some folks in his area. There, Iruk, am I being clear enough, or do I have to try again? Waiting for reply.

(02-21-2018, 07:52 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: As for the question, it was in response to you saying:

---

(02-20-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: Here's what I see with Eric's analogy; wesen who woge automatically present a deadly threat. Nick, grimm hunter, is justified in killing said wesen. There's no room for choices. That's it, plain and simple.

It could be that you were saying that as an analysis of his analogy rather than your own opinion so I'll retract what I said if that's case.

(02-21-2018, 10:18 PM)eric Wrote: Okay, I apologize, I am sorry, I failed to be clear in my writing. I will try to be more precise in the future. The wolf in the woods, the boa in the boat I meant to be a Grimm. "You" in the woods and the boat and all the wessen we saw in the show were wessen who had just met their childhood monsters who would kill them if they woged. My belief is that any sane wessen either fled or tried to kill the GRIMM on the spot before he/she could kill them. I still do not understand how Rolex could have lived to his advanced age without upsetting some folks in his area. There, Iruk, am I being clear enough, or do I have to try again? Waiting for reply.

(02-22-2018, 05:04 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 07:52 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: As for the question, it was in response to you saying:

---

(02-20-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: Here's what I see with Eric's analogy; wesen who woge automatically present a deadly threat. Nick, grimm hunter, is justified in killing said wesen. There's no room for choices. That's it, plain and simple.

It could be that you were saying that as an analysis of his analogy rather than your own opinion so I'll retract what I said if that's case.

This is correct. I was not saying that Nick was killing without provocation.

---

(02-21-2018, 10:18 PM)eric Wrote: Okay, I apologize, I am sorry, I failed to be clear in my writing. I will try to be more precise in the future. The wolf in the woods, the boa in the boat I meant to be a Grimm. "You" in the woods and the boat and all the wessen we saw in the show were wessen who had just met their childhood monsters who would kill them if they woged. My belief is that any sane wessen either fled or tried to kill the GRIMM on the spot before he/she could kill them. I still do not understand how Rolex could have lived to his advanced age without upsetting some folks in his area. There, Iruk, am I being clear enough, or do I have to try again? Waiting for reply.

So in essence then, the grimm is not giving the wesen a choice. The boa (grimm) invades the wesen's territory (boat) and if the wesen tries to defend his territory (boat) by perhaps woging and trying to scare the snake off, then the boa (grimm) feels it's justified in taking the person (wesen's) life. Right?

In reality, I don't think this scenario is really all that far off from history. These grimms would go traveling from town to town, invade wesen territory and kill them off when the wesen tried to defend their homes. Monroe's book showing the grimms going after children is no doubt based on fact and not fiction. I am not saying the wesen were innocent, but do grimms have the right to invade their homes and kill everyone they can simply because they let the wesen make the first move?

(02-21-2018, 11:12 PM)dicappatore Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 12:37 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: In Nick's case, the wilderness analogy works a lot better if the wesen are the hikers panicking when they see the snake. The ones who survive the encounter are the ones who are smart enough not to try attacking.

---

(02-21-2018, 07:52 PM)Hell Rell Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 05:06 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 10:01 AM)eric Wrote: I didn't say the boa is attacking you, I said it got in your boat, maybe to catch a few rays, what do you do? Admire the skin pattern or kill it--honestly now, really? And don't say jump in the water, there are alligators there. I say the wessen have only two choices--fight or flight. Grimms have the advantage that the wessen fear them, all the way down to the bone.

Okay, this is what I get out of your analogy. Person in boat=grimm. Boa=wesen.

The boa, according to this analogy, has three choices. It can attack, it can simply sun itself, or it can go back to whence it came. Right?

The person, on the other hand, has no choice. You've removed the option of escape. I don't count watching the boa sun itself because the boat is the person's territory. Said boa has come into the territory and poses a threat. The only option available to the person is to defend their boat against the invader.

A grimm may be put into the position where the only method of defense is to kill. I'm not saying that could never happen. I'm just saying that I believe there have been encounters between wesen and grimms that didn't result in death or injury. Instead both were intelligent enough to assess the futility of death and decided to simply leave one another alone.

---

(02-21-2018, 10:22 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: In order to continue this debate, I think we really need to see some example on the show where Nick killed a wesen without provocation. That was thrown out there earlier so there needs to be some proof that anyone can provide if that's true.

Is this question in regard to something I wrote?

I think he was describing Grimms as the Boa rather than the wesen. He was explaining how wesen see Grimms and why they attack them.

As for the question, it was in response to you saying:

---

(02-20-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: Here's what I see with Eric's analogy; wesen who woge automatically present a deadly threat. Nick, grimm hunter, is justified in killing said wesen. There's no room for choices. That's it, plain and simple.

It could be that you were saying that as an analysis of his analogy rather than your own opinion so I'll retract what I said if that's case.

If not, then I made a request for proof. That really isn't what he said in his analogy because he was talking about how wesen see Grimms.

---

Quote:Okay, I apologize, I am sorry, I failed to be clear in my writing. I will try to be more precise in the future. The wolf in the woods, the boa in the boat I meant to be a Grimm. "You" in the woods and the boat and all the wessen we saw in the show were wessen who had just met their childhood monsters who would kill them if they woged. My belief is that any sane wessen either fled or tried to kill the GRIMM on the spot before he/she could kill them. I still do not understand how Rolex could have lived to his advanced age without upsetting some folks in his area. There, Iruk, am I being clear enough, or do I have to try again? Waiting for reply.

Talk about someone redirecting a lost argument. This is the mother of all "skewing the subject line". First, to reply to the redirection of the subject line. There are no needs for any "walk in the woods" or "snake in the boat analogies". You have all the proof on the screen of the show we were all watching. Take the Pilot Episode. Nick wasn't even aware of his Grimm yet when a Blutbad decided to start hunting young women and little girls.

Did Nick set him off when he got nervous in his presence and caused him to get the urge to kill? I don't think so. We also learn in this episode, Grimms can't turn it off, as some un-attentative, un-factual opinionated contributor claimed. This Wesen KILLED innocent humans. Why would you need an analogy for that? It is pretty clear. Bad Wesen kills innocent humans. Does the presence of a two Grimms in Portland make this happen? Nick is a homicide detective. He investigates homicides. Not because he is a Grimm.

Now as for the attempted murder of his Aunt Marie? Did she initiate the killings of the Reaper Wesen that came after her? Did she attack Sean, Adalind or the Reaper Hulda that attacked his aunt. Just a few more cases, early on the series to set the stage. Wesen are bad, humans are their pray and Grimms are the good guys! And many other times, the victims are also Wesen, which Nick comes to their rescue. Not the other way around. No matter how many times they try to make the Wesen as the victims and the Grimm as the bad guys, on a show called "Grimm". This must be making this contributor stomp their feet and yell in anger, like a small spoiled child.

Now, going back to the subject at hand with Rolek. How he lived the life of a Grimm under the radar would be a whole other spin-off. As far as this series goes, it is not a pertinent factor. My question to jsgrimm45 is, how would the "how and why", "Rolek Porter how did he live under the Wesen radar", effect or change any of the outcome of the show? Why is the reasons on how and why change anything?

The big redirection of the subject of this thread is a result of someone trying to impose the life of Rolek on the main character Nick. Somehow, to this "Nick Loather", Rolek's lifestyle choice, as a Grimm, would clean up Nicks corrupt and evil ways. This is how far some will go to, after many exhausting failed attempts falling on deaf ears.

BTW? That Blutbad that was killed in that 1st episode? He wasn't killed by Nick. He was shot by Hank.

(02-22-2018, 05:04 AM)irukandji Wrote: It could be that you were saying that as an analysis of his analogy rather than your own opinion so I'll retract what I said if that's case.

(02-21-2018, 11:12 PM)dicappatore Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 12:37 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: In Nick's case, the wilderness analogy works a lot better if the wesen are the hikers panicking when they see the snake. The ones who survive the encounter are the ones who are smart enough not to try attacking.

---

(02-21-2018, 07:52 PM)Hell Rell Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 05:06 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 10:01 AM)eric Wrote: I didn't say the boa is attacking you, I said it got in your boat, maybe to catch a few rays, what do you do? Admire the skin pattern or kill it--honestly now, really? And don't say jump in the water, there are alligators there. I say the wessen have only two choices--fight or flight. Grimms have the advantage that the wessen fear them, all the way down to the bone.

Okay, this is what I get out of your analogy. Person in boat=grimm. Boa=wesen.

The boa, according to this analogy, has three choices. It can attack, it can simply sun itself, or it can go back to whence it came. Right?

The person, on the other hand, has no choice. You've removed the option of escape. I don't count watching the boa sun itself because the boat is the person's territory. Said boa has come into the territory and poses a threat. The only option available to the person is to defend their boat against the invader.

A grimm may be put into the position where the only method of defense is to kill. I'm not saying that could never happen. I'm just saying that I believe there have been encounters between wesen and grimms that didn't result in death or injury. Instead both were intelligent enough to assess the futility of death and decided to simply leave one another alone.

---

(02-21-2018, 10:22 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: In order to continue this debate, I think we really need to see some example on the show where Nick killed a wesen without provocation. That was thrown out there earlier so there needs to be some proof that anyone can provide if that's true.

Is this question in regard to something I wrote?

I think he was describing Grimms as the Boa rather than the wesen. He was explaining how wesen see Grimms and why they attack them.

As for the question, it was in response to you saying:

---

(02-20-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: Here's what I see with Eric's analogy; wesen who woge automatically present a deadly threat. Nick, grimm hunter, is justified in killing said wesen. There's no room for choices. That's it, plain and simple.

It could be that you were saying that as an analysis of his analogy rather than your own opinion so I'll retract what I said if that's case.

If not, then I made a request for proof. That really isn't what he said in his analogy because he was talking about how wesen see Grimms.

---

Quote:Okay, I apologize, I am sorry, I failed to be clear in my writing. I will try to be more precise in the future. The wolf in the woods, the boa in the boat I meant to be a Grimm. "You" in the woods and the boat and all the wessen we saw in the show were wessen who had just met their childhood monsters who would kill them if they woged. My belief is that any sane wessen either fled or tried to kill the GRIMM on the spot before he/she could kill them. I still do not understand how Rolex could have lived to his advanced age without upsetting some folks in his area. There, Iruk, am I being clear enough, or do I have to try again? Waiting for reply.

Talk about someone redirecting a lost argument. This is the mother of all "skewing the subject line". First, to reply to the redirection of the subject line. There are no needs for any "walk in the woods" or "snake in the boat analogies". You have all the proof on the screen of the show we were all watching. Take the Pilot Episode. Nick wasn't even aware of his Grimm yet when a Blutbad decided to start hunting young women and little girls.

Did Nick set him off when he got nervous in his presence and caused him to get the urge to kill? I don't think so. We also learn in this episode, Grimms can't turn it off, as some un-attentative, un-factual opinionated contributor claimed. This Wesen KILLED innocent humans. Why would you need an analogy for that? It is pretty clear. Bad Wesen kills innocent humans. Does the presence of a two Grimms in Portland make this happen? Nick is a homicide detective. He investigates homicides. Not because he is a Grimm.

Now as for the attempted murder of his Aunt Marie? Did she initiate the killings of the Reaper Wesen that came after her? Did she attack Sean, Adalind or the Reaper Hulda that attacked his aunt. Just a few more cases, early on the series to set the stage. Wesen are bad, humans are their pray and Grimms are the good guys! And many other times, the victims are also Wesen, which Nick comes to their rescue. Not the other way around. No matter how many times they try to make the Wesen as the victims and the Grimm as the bad guys, on a show called "Grimm". This must be making this contributor stomp their feet and yell in anger, like a small spoiled child.

Now, going back to the subject at hand with Rolek. How he lived the life of a Grimm under the radar would be a whole other spin-off. As far as this series goes, it is not a pertinent factor. My question to jsgrimm45 is, how would the "how and why", "Rolek Porter how did he live under the Wesen radar", effect or change any of the outcome of the show? Why is the reasons on how and why change anything?

The big redirection of the subject of this thread is a result of someone trying to impose the life of Rolek on the main character Nick. Somehow, to this "Nick Loather", Rolek's lifestyle choice, as a Grimm, would clean up Nicks corrupt and evil ways. This is how far some will go to, after many exhausting failed attempts falling on deaf ears.

BTW? That Blutbad that was killed in that 1st episode? He wasn't killed by Nick. He was shot by Hank.

(02-22-2018, 07:12 AM)eric Wrote: Okay, I give up, I will not try to explain or respond to you at any future time.

(02-22-2018, 07:49 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 11:12 PM)dicappatore Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 12:37 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: In Nick's case, the wilderness analogy works a lot better if the wesen are the hikers panicking when they see the snake. The ones who survive the encounter are the ones who are smart enough not to try attacking.

---

(02-21-2018, 07:52 PM)Hell Rell Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 05:06 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 10:01 AM)eric Wrote: I didn't say the boa is attacking you, I said it got in your boat, maybe to catch a few rays, what do you do? Admire the skin pattern or kill it--honestly now, really? And don't say jump in the water, there are alligators there. I say the wessen have only two choices--fight or flight. Grimms have the advantage that the wessen fear them, all the way down to the bone.

Okay, this is what I get out of your analogy. Person in boat=grimm. Boa=wesen.

The boa, according to this analogy, has three choices. It can attack, it can simply sun itself, or it can go back to whence it came. Right?

The person, on the other hand, has no choice. You've removed the option of escape. I don't count watching the boa sun itself because the boat is the person's territory. Said boa has come into the territory and poses a threat. The only option available to the person is to defend their boat against the invader.

A grimm may be put into the position where the only method of defense is to kill. I'm not saying that could never happen. I'm just saying that I believe there have been encounters between wesen and grimms that didn't result in death or injury. Instead both were intelligent enough to assess the futility of death and decided to simply leave one another alone.

---

(02-21-2018, 10:22 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: In order to continue this debate, I think we really need to see some example on the show where Nick killed a wesen without provocation. That was thrown out there earlier so there needs to be some proof that anyone can provide if that's true.

Is this question in regard to something I wrote?

I think he was describing Grimms as the Boa rather than the wesen. He was explaining how wesen see Grimms and why they attack them.

As for the question, it was in response to you saying:

---

(02-20-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: Here's what I see with Eric's analogy; wesen who woge automatically present a deadly threat. Nick, grimm hunter, is justified in killing said wesen. There's no room for choices. That's it, plain and simple.

It could be that you were saying that as an analysis of his analogy rather than your own opinion so I'll retract what I said if that's case.

If not, then I made a request for proof. That really isn't what he said in his analogy because he was talking about how wesen see Grimms.

---

Quote:Okay, I apologize, I am sorry, I failed to be clear in my writing. I will try to be more precise in the future. The wolf in the woods, the boa in the boat I meant to be a Grimm. "You" in the woods and the boat and all the wessen we saw in the show were wessen who had just met their childhood monsters who would kill them if they woged. My belief is that any sane wessen either fled or tried to kill the GRIMM on the spot before he/she could kill them. I still do not understand how Rolex could have lived to his advanced age without upsetting some folks in his area. There, Iruk, am I being clear enough, or do I have to try again? Waiting for reply.

Talk about someone redirecting a lost argument. This is the mother of all "skewing the subject line". First, to reply to the redirection of the subject line. There are no needs for any "walk in the woods" or "snake in the boat analogies". You have all the proof on the screen of the show we were all watching. Take the Pilot Episode. Nick wasn't even aware of his Grimm yet when a Blutbad decided to start hunting young women and little girls.

Did Nick set him off when he got nervous in his presence and caused him to get the urge to kill? I don't think so. We also learn in this episode, Grimms can't turn it off, as some un-attentative, un-factual opinionated contributor claimed. This Wesen KILLED innocent humans. Why would you need an analogy for that? It is pretty clear. Bad Wesen kills innocent humans. Does the presence of a two Grimms in Portland make this happen? Nick is a homicide detective. He investigates homicides. Not because he is a Grimm.

Now as for the attempted murder of his Aunt Marie? Did she initiate the killings of the Reaper Wesen that came after her? Did she attack Sean, Adalind or the Reaper Hulda that attacked his aunt. Just a few more cases, early on the series to set the stage. Wesen are bad, humans are their pray and Grimms are the good guys! And many other times, the victims are also Wesen, which Nick comes to their rescue. Not the other way around. No matter how many times they try to make the Wesen as the victims and the Grimm as the bad guys, on a show called "Grimm". This must be making this contributor stomp their feet and yell in anger, like a small spoiled child.

Now, going back to the subject at hand with Rolek. How he lived the life of a Grimm under the radar would be a whole other spin-off. As far as this series goes, it is not a pertinent factor. My question to jsgrimm45 is, how would the "how and why", "Rolek Porter how did he live under the Wesen radar", effect or change any of the outcome of the show? Why is the reasons on how and why change anything?

The big redirection of the subject of this thread is a result of someone trying to impose the life of Rolek on the main character Nick. Somehow, to this "Nick Loather", Rolek's lifestyle choice, as a Grimm, would clean up Nicks corrupt and evil ways. This is how far some will go to, after many exhausting failed attempts falling on deaf ears.

BTW? That Blutbad that was killed in that 1st episode? He wasn't killed by Nick. He was shot by Hank.

@dicappatore You are right the Rolek question does not change the series. The reason for the post is to question Rolek did it but how. We know Rolek dad was like Kelly or maybe more like Aunt Marie (killing only bad wesen) but he did kill IMO I see the Rolek as example of one Grimm who rejected being a Grimm. You did ask the right question why?

You can join the military as a CO and work as say a Medic, but as a Medic you are in the same danger as the grunt next to you. We did see Rolek kill a wesen so he could do it to save his son. So was he a CO against all violence no but against most yes.

When we get to NIck his job put in connect with mostly bad wesen, question what kind of job would Rolek have that didn't, also how would the wesen he no doubt came in connect with react at the knowledge the he was a Grimm? How might he defuse the connect? we seen Nick defuse wesen all the time did Rolek do the same?

(02-22-2018, 05:04 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(02-21-2018, 07:52 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: As for the question, it was in response to you saying:

---

(02-20-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: Here's what I see with Eric's analogy; wesen who woge automatically present a deadly threat. Nick, grimm hunter, is justified in killing said wesen. There's no room for choices. That's it, plain and simple.

It could be that you were saying that as an analysis of his analogy rather than your own opinion so I'll retract what I said if that's case.

This is correct. I was not saying that Nick was killing without provocation.

---

(02-21-2018, 10:18 PM)eric Wrote: Okay, I apologize, I am sorry, I failed to be clear in my writing. I will try to be more precise in the future. The wolf in the woods, the boa in the boat I meant to be a Grimm. "You" in the woods and the boat and all the wessen we saw in the show were wessen who had just met their childhood monsters who would kill them if they woged. My belief is that any sane wessen either fled or tried to kill the GRIMM on the spot before he/she could kill them. I still do not understand how Rolex could have lived to his advanced age without upsetting some folks in his area. There, Iruk, am I being clear enough, or do I have to try again? Waiting for reply.

So in essence then, the grimm is not giving the wesen a choice. The boa (grimm) invades the wesen's territory (boat) and if the wesen tries to defend his territory (boat) by perhaps woging and trying to scare the snake off, then the boa (grimm) feels it's justified in taking the person (wesen's) life. Right?

In reality, I don't think this scenario is really all that far off from history. These grimms would go traveling from town to town, invade wesen territory and kill them off when the wesen tried to defend their homes. Monroe's book showing the grimms going after children is no doubt based on fact and not fiction. I am not saying the wesen were innocent, but do grimms have the right to invade their homes and kill everyone they can simply because they let the wesen make the first move?

(02-22-2018, 01:15 PM)Henry of green Wrote: innocent, but do grimms have the right to invade their homes and kill It’s nicks job to invade the territory of criminals, it’s not his fault so many criminals happen to be wesen. Yes in the past grimms may have went around provoking innocent wesen, but once agian your missing the whole point of the series Nick is a different kind of girimm he’s not like his ancestors. If anything Nick tries his upmost to avoid a violent confrontation but the wesen doesn’t give him a chance a lot of times.