(01-27-2018, 09:57 AM)syscrash Wrote:

Quote:Thanks, Robyn. We don't know anything about Juliette's past and that has always been a pet peeve of mine about the series.

A question on my mind when I was thinking about this topic is, what trigger causes women like Adalind and Juliette to murder? Adalind's relationship with her mother was not a happy one, but I don't see that as the overwhelming trigger in her brain that rationalized her murder of Marie. I know she was doing it because Renard told her to, but what brought her to that point?

As for Juliette, we don't know a lot about her background, so it's even more questionable to me as to why someone like her would be so amendable to murder as well.

Adalind and Eve like all wesen live by a different set of rules. they have a different out look on life. The common theme I have seen over six year is wesen live and breath the idea of survival of the fittest. You are either predator or prey. If you try and view Adalind , Eve , or any wesen from a human point of view. They would be classified as psychotic killing machines. Consider Rosalee chomped down and ripped the guys throat out. Yet she saw nothing wrong with that. How would that not have a human labeled as psychotic. Take Hank and Wu each time they shoot someone they hesitate. Name one wesen that hesitated before a kill or had second thoughts or showed regret afterward.

(01-27-2018, 10:06 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(01-27-2018, 09:57 AM)syscrash Wrote:

Quote:Thanks, Robyn. We don't know anything about Juliette's past and that has always been a pet peeve of mine about the series.

A question on my mind when I was thinking about this topic is, what trigger causes women like Adalind and Juliette to murder? Adalind's relationship with her mother was not a happy one, but I don't see that as the overwhelming trigger in her brain that rationalized her murder of Marie. I know she was doing it because Renard told her to, but what brought her to that point?

As for Juliette, we don't know a lot about her background, so it's even more questionable to me as to why someone like her would be so amendable to murder as well.

Adalind and Eve like all wesen live by a different set of rules. they have a different out look on life. The common theme I have seen over six year is wesen live and breath the idea of survival of the fittest. You are either predator or prey. If you try and view Adalind , Eve , or any wesen from a human point of view. They would be classified as psychotic killing machines. Consider Rosalee chomped down and ripped the guys throat out. Yet she saw nothing wrong with that. How would that not have a human labeled as psychotic. Take Hank and Wu each time they shoot someone they hesitate. Name one wesen that hesitated before a kill or had second thoughts or showed regret afterward.

And that's fine that you think that. But that was not really a theme of Grimm as far as wesen were concerned. Bud was a character who would have been technically classified as prey, but yet showed great love and devotion to his family. When called upon, he displayed great courage. He strove to overcome the animal side of his nature, which is indicative of growth.

I would have liked to have learned more about hexenbiests. It's apparent Adalind isn't the poster child for the species. Elizabeth and Henrietta were completely different.

The series went into great detail regard wesen, but chose only to reveal certain things about hexenbiests which really doesn't give a true picture of them.

(01-27-2018, 10:26 AM)Henry of green Wrote: I totally agree Irk, I think it is totally wrong labeling wesen killing machines, humans and wesen are individuals who make choices, there were an awful lot of good wesen on the show, I also didn’t get the impression Elizabeth and Henrietta were that bad at all from what we seen of them. Syscrash, is being far to simplistic wesen bad and human good ,the show established it’s not as simple as that , Adalind was at her very worst as a human and at her most compassionate in season 6 when she was a hexenbiest. Adalind wasn’t a bad person in the early seasons because she was a hexenbiest that’s just an excuse imo , she was like that because that’s how she was riased and chose to be as an adult.
Some wesen may have certain animalistic urges but the majority of modern wesen seem to live just fine in the world and are able to control them , by the way a lot of regular humans also have dark sides that they must control, not quite on the wesen level but not that different ether. Some posters also forget most wesen are born totally human and remain human until they are nearly teenagers , according to the show. They are also in human form the majority of the time and mostly only woge when they are in a stressful situation to my mind they are mostly human only with a more primal side. Also the Royals we’ve seen on the show were just as power hungry and more ruthless than almost any Hexenbiest/ Zauberbiest except for maybe Boneparte yet they were fully human. For example Judging by how power hungry the Royals were Renards need for power and his greed comes from his human side as much as his hexenbiest side.

Quote: Syscrash, is being far to simplistic wesen bad and human good ,the show established it’s not as simple as that , Adalind was at her very worst as a human and at her most compassionate in season 6 when she was a hexenbiest. Adalind wasn’t a bad person in the early seasons because she was a hexenbiest that’s just an excuse imo , she was like that because that’s how she was riased and chose to be as an adult.

(01-28-2018, 01:30 AM)Henry of green Wrote: Adalind took Nicks powers beacuse she wanted Diania back plain and simple, she avoided confrontion without her powers because she was weak without them how exactly wound a barley 100 pound woman confront anyone physically successfully without supernatural powers. How exactly was Adalind sneaky with Nick the only thing she kept from Nick was her powers were coming back and that was done out of fear not sneakiness , if you think her sneaky for this then Juliette was sneaky for hiding her hexenbiest from Nick. Adalind told nick in season 5 she was worried Sean would use Diania against her and that the resistance had her. She also didn’t tell Nick about meeting Renard and Diania in 5x18 but once agian this was clearly done out of fear not sneakiness. She told Nick in a letter excatly why she had to leave him,that doesn’t sound very sneaky to me. Nick lied directly to Adalinds face in season 5 and he hid far more from her than she hid from him.

What about the Royals they are fully human and more conniving than any hexenbiest and a lot more ruthless than most. I never seen hexenbiest have thier own family members murderd other than Sean who is a half royal. Viktor was behind his own uncle Renards fathers death,the king told Kenneth to Murder his own son Sean if he didn’t cooperate . It’s was the Royals who cut off Kelly Burkhardts head, then put it in a box for her son to see, hexenbiests were never that sick. It’s was the Royals who ruled the world and exploited the masses, humans and wesen for centuries. The Royals tried to have Sean and his mother murderd simply for what and who they were, catherine Schade was a bad mother but compared with the Royals she was a saint, at least she never tried to have her daughter murdered. The Royals in the past used grimms to control wesen and force them to figth in thier wars. It was even said on the show a a lot of the trouble In the world in modern times is even caused by the Royals ,like stirring trouble in the Middle East in order to destabilize the world so they can become as powerful as they once were a century before. The Royals who are humans have caused far more harm to the world than any hexenbiest ever has or will.

The Royals in my opinion were the sickest people on the show, Eric had his own loyal guard of years turned into a zombie simply for fun, even Boneparte wasn’t that sick basically killing someone just for entertainment. Even Adalind flinches and is shocked at the beating Kenneth give Damerov in 4x16. Death and destruction is just as much a part of human nature as it is wesen nature, the witch trials and mummifying of wesen in ancient Egypt are just two examples of this.

Grimms were also as bad in the past as hexenbiests they wiped out entire villages of innocent wesen as has been stated in the Grimm books. They also did the Royals bidding in the past in order to keep wesen beneath the Royal heal. As has been stated on the shown it wasn’t unusually for grimms in the past to roam the country side lopping of any wesen head innocent or not. Even in the modern age , Kelly burckhadt attacked Monrone and Rosalee in In Nicks home in season 2 for no other reason other than them being wesen. The grimms of old were as violent and wild as any wesen on the show and the Royals appeared to be even worse than Grimms or wesen as they even ordered thier own family members murderd for power and they had everyone wesen and Grimm beneath heal.

Here is script of hank reading from the Grimm book in 2x08 that shows just how the grimms of old behaved ,there are many other examples of simlar statements throughout the show.


This entry's from 1833, the Galapagos Islands.
- Sounds like Darwin.
- Apparently One of my ancestors was on the voyage with him.
Man, this is wild.
"After sailing around the islands for two days, "we finally disembarked "and found a gentle race in residence.
"The most amazing thing about this shy, reclusive group "they were not afraid, having never seen a Grimm.
"I found them to be intelligent, compassionate "and thoroughly nonviolent, which made the dispatching of them quite easy.
"Hank Really? So your people killed innocent genio-whatever-they're-called? - Nick Different times.
- Yeah, I'll say.

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=grimm&episode=s02e08

Quote:Adalind took Nicks powers beacuse she wanted Diania back plain and simple,

(01-28-2018, 04:58 AM)dicappatore Wrote:

(01-28-2018, 01:30 AM)Henry of green Wrote: Adalind took Nicks powers beacuse she wanted Diania back plain and simple, she avoided confrontion without her powers because she was weak without them how exactly wound a barley 100 pound woman confront anyone physically successfully without supernatural powers. How exactly was Adalind sneaky with Nick the only thing she kept from Nick was her powers were coming back and that was done out of fear not sneakiness , if you think her sneaky for this then Juliette was sneaky for hiding her hexenbiest from Nick. Adalind told nick in season 5 she was worried Sean would use Diania against her and that the resistance had her. She also didn’t tell Nick about meeting Renard and Diania in 5x18 but once agian this was clearly done out of fear not sneakiness. She told Nick in a letter excatly why she had to leave him,that doesn’t sound very sneaky to me. Nick lied directly to Adalinds face in season 5 and he hid far more from her than she hid from him.

What about the Royals they are fully human and more conniving than any hexenbiest and a lot more ruthless than most. I never seen hexenbiest have thier own family members murderd other than Sean who is a half royal. Viktor was behind his own uncle Renards fathers death,the king told Kenneth to Murder his own son Sean if he didn’t cooperate . It’s was the Royals who cut off Kelly Burkhardts head, then put it in a box for her son to see, hexenbiests were never that sick. It’s was the Royals who ruled the world and exploited the masses, humans and wesen for centuries. The Royals tried to have Sean and his mother murderd simply for what and who they were, catherine Schade was a bad mother but compared with the Royals she was a saint, at least she never tried to have her daughter murdered. The Royals in the past used grimms to control wesen and force them to figth in thier wars. It was even said on the show a a lot of the trouble In the world in modern times is even caused by the Royals ,like stirring trouble in the Middle East in order to destabilize the world so they can become as powerful as they once were a century before. The Royals who are humans have caused far more harm to the world than any hexenbiest ever has or will.

The Royals in my opinion were the sickest people on the show, Eric had his own loyal guard of years turned into a zombie simply for fun, even Boneparte wasn’t that sick basically killing someone just for entertainment. Even Adalind flinches and is shocked at the beating Kenneth give Damerov in 4x16. Death and destruction is just as much a part of human nature as it is wesen nature, the witch trials and mummifying of wesen in ancient Egypt are just two examples of this.

Grimms were also as bad in the past as hexenbiests they wiped out entire villages of innocent wesen as has been stated in the Grimm books. They also did the Royals bidding in the past in order to keep wesen beneath the Royal heal. As has been stated on the shown it wasn’t unusually for grimms in the past to roam the country side lopping of any wesen head innocent or not. Even in the modern age , Kelly burckhadt attacked Monrone and Rosalee in In Nicks home in season 2 for no other reason other than them being wesen. The grimms of old were as violent and wild as any wesen on the show and the Royals appeared to be even worse than Grimms or wesen as they even ordered thier own family members murderd for power and they had everyone wesen and Grimm beneath heal.

Here is script of hank reading from the Grimm book in 2x08 that shows just how the grimms of old behaved ,there are many other examples of simlar statements throughout the show.


This entry's from 1833, the Galapagos Islands.
- Sounds like Darwin.
- Apparently One of my ancestors was on the voyage with him.
Man, this is wild.
"After sailing around the islands for two days, "we finally disembarked "and found a gentle race in residence.
"The most amazing thing about this shy, reclusive group "they were not afraid, having never seen a Grimm.
"I found them to be intelligent, compassionate "and thoroughly nonviolent, which made the dispatching of them quite easy.
"Hank Really? So your people killed innocent genio-whatever-they're-called? - Nick Different times.
- Yeah, I'll say.

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=grimm&episode=s02e08

Just one thing to add to a great summation. One of the factors that tamed down modern Wesen culture was the establishment of their council. Their response to their internal issues were just as violent, if not more, than a Grimm. Just one more fact these Nick detractors seem to overlook.

(01-27-2018, 09:23 AM)irukandji Wrote: A question on my mind when I was thinking about this topic is, what trigger causes women like Adalind and Juliette to murder? Adalind's relationship with her mother was not a happy one, but I don't see that as the overwhelming trigger in her brain that rationalized her murder of Marie. I know she was doing it because Renard told her to, but what brought her to that point?

As for Juliette, we don't know a lot about her background, so it's even more questionable to me as to why someone like her would be so amendable to murder as well.

(01-28-2018, 06:22 AM)syscrash Wrote: Obviously Henry and decapitator you don't understand having an intellectual discussion. For one an intellectual discussion you from a theory and then provide facts that support that theory. In this type of discussion opinion and beliefs do not work. he is an example.

Quote:Adalind took Nicks powers beacuse she wanted Diania back plain and simple,

There is a problem with that statement. Yes victor told her take Nick powers and she could see Diana. Problem is Victor did not have Diana. Even though the character thought he did. It becomes a false statement to argue in the definitive when we know it is a misleading fact.
You also have a problem with the statement because nothing proves that she had to sleep with Nick to take his powers. We have no logical reason for the writers to use that method. From a story stand point It drives the story arc of the eventual breakup and Juliette's animosity towards Adalind.

As for the rest of your paragraph you are arguing a point. I was describing a concept. To say hexenbiest are conniving does not mean that to be conniving makes you a hexenbiest. The same with your argument about Adadlind not being confrontational. I was showing how she was different. Pointing out the reason does not change the how. Comparing her to others also does not change the how she is different.

Also you keep mixing what she is with who she is. Think of it this way. the what she is determines how she does something. why she does something is based on who she is.
example helping others is a sign of who you are. Being a programmer and solving problems logically is because of what you are. Even though solving problems logically does not make you a programmer.