(01-23-2018, 09:48 AM)brandon Wrote: Juliette " Hexenbiest" never talking with Adalind.

(01-23-2018, 08:38 AM)Henry of green Wrote:

(01-23-2018, 08:19 AM)syscrash Wrote:

Quote:Juliette planned to have Kelly ambushed these events were all in the script as was her giving Kelly false information via email , saying that the house was safe a place for kelly to go . She give kennth advice about how dangerous Kelly was and not to underestimate Kelly, then she outright lies to Kelly saying the house is safe come on in I’m upstairs,when in reality Kenneth is downstairs with a load of armed verat preparing to attack an unsespecting Kelly, Juliette hears Kellys moans of pain downstairs hears Kenneth say lets take this outside and sits upstairs and does nothing, Juliette is an accessory to murder that is fact, everything I stated above is in the script and shown onscreen. It matters little wether she definitely knew Kelly would be murderd or not all the matters is she willingly led Kelly to her death and didn’t care wether she lived or died as long as she got revenge on Nick and Adalind as she didn’t care wether her nieghbours lived or died. These are facts but you will probably ingnore tham as they don’t suit you version of events.

You keep posting what happened. There is no disagreement on that. The point I keep making is you are trying to draw and inference from the actions and state that is the perception the writers intended. The problem with that is when the writer provides narrative to state their intent. That is their intent not what you think it is.

The writers could have a character gun down a group of people. At the end they could then provide a reason why the character is not a killer. You could post all you want, line for line proving proof the character gun down the group. That still would not change the intent of the writer that the character is not a killer. No matter how lame of an excuse they use to make this point.

The bottom line is the writer provided Exposition where Juliette stated that she did not know that Kenneth was going to do that. The writers also had her show remorse for what happened to his mother. The writers could not have her comment on the neighbors because the writers omitted Juliette from having any knowledge about what happened to the neighbors.

You have no idea how she felt about the attack. There is not one line where the writers give use that information. You may feel she did not care. But the writers never said she didn't care.

You keep wanting to say she was an accessory. If that is what the writers wanted us to think. then why didn't they have Nick arrest her. All the times he confronted her not once did the writers have Nick accuse her of killing his mother. He only accused her of setting her up. The neighbors, not one line of dialog relates their fate to Juliette.

Yes your arguments fit a logical analysis of cause and effect. If this was something that actually happened I would agree with you 100%. But I view the show how the writers wrote it, not how I would or would not like to see it. When I argue a point, I argue it from the writers point of view. That does not mean I do not question why a character did or did not do something. I also make assumptions for why I think a character did or did not do something. But I do not argue these assumptions. I may add them from the point of fan fiction, providing a rational explanation for the how and why. The same as someone would do when explaining how a warp drive works. But that makes it a hypothesis not a fact. You keep trying to justify an assumption as fact.

You don’t, you view the show how you want the writers to think, the writers also wanted us to be aware of Juliettes guilt, which is why Eve said she could never forgive Juliette for what she’s done and why Nick repeatedly said she set his mother up. The writers showed Eve having flashbacks of Kelly’s head in the box and the remorseful look on her face when Diania brought up Kelly, What I have stated are not assumptions they are facts that happen. Who are you to speak for the writers, how exactly would you know what the writers did and didn’t intend, you pick and chose what you accept from the writers when it suits you. Even when the writers confirm things in interviews and everyone including Grimm sites like grimm wiki accept them, you deny them and say they mean something else beacuse it doesn’t suit your narrative you don’t speak for the writers you speak for how you wish the writers had been. What arrogance you have what makes you qualified to get inside the writers head claim what they were intending. Juliette is a killer she shot two people dead when rescuing Monroe is 4x10 from the wesen nazi like group even before making the guys head explode with her hexen powers by mistake . She would have successfully killed Adalind if not for the guard, are you saying Eve was lying when she said Juliette would have murderd Nick and Trubel.

Nick didn’t arrest Juliette beacuse he didn’t get the chance, Nick wanted to try and kill her at the kings mansion but she flew off in a helicopter and then she went back to his house and he tried to kill her but couldn’t because he still loved her , yet she was more than willing to murder him. Kelly’s death is 50 percent Juliette fault, she is the reason Kelly is in Portland to be murderd and she is the reason Kellys guard is down, she helps the Royals catch Kelly off guard by inviting her into the the house under the guise of safety, that right there is acessory to Murder. Juliette heard Kelly’s moans downstairs as she was being murderd and did nothing because she got what she wanted revenge. Juliette in the season 4 only said once she didn’t know Kenneth would kill Kelly, which may well be true but she is still responsible for Kelly’s death as she is the reason the Royals were able to murder Kelly. Also 30 seconds after telling Nick she didn’t know Kelly would be killed she Laughs in Nick face and is about to kill him with her final words to him being a sadistic by Nick only Trubel shows up. Eve confirms in season 5 that Juliette was planning on murdering Nick that nigth and would have also killed Trudel.

You are the one making assumptions not me you are assuming you knew exactly what way the writers were thinking, I am actually using what was on screen.

Quote:the writers also wanted us to be aware of Juliettes guilt, which is why Eve said she could never forgive Juliette for what she’s done and why Nick repeatedly said she set his mother up.

Quote:The writers showed Eve having flashbacks of Kelly’s head in the box and the remorseful look on her face when Diania brought up Kelly,

Quote:Juliette is a killer she shot two people dead when rescuing Monroe

Quote:Eve was lying when she said Juliette would have murderd Nick and Trubel.

Quote:Trubel goes to talk to Eve, and she tells Eve she wasn't trying to kill her that night at Nick's house. ("Cry Havoc") Eve tells her she's talking about Juliette and that she knows she wasn't trying to kill her. Trubel says she would have killed Juliette if she had to since she was trying to kill Nick. Trubel asks her if she'd ever hurt Nick, Adalind, or Kelly, and Eve says, "I wouldn't. I don't owe Juliette anything." Eve then tells Trubel that Juliette would have killed her too.

Quote:Nick didn’t arrest Juliette beacuse he didn’t get the chance, Nick wanted to try and kill her at the kings mansion but she flew off in a helicopter and then she went back to his house and he tried to kill her but couldn’t because he still loved her

Quote: Juliette heard Kelly’s moans downstairs as she was being murderd and did nothing because she got what she wanted revenge.

Quote:You are the one making assumptions not me you are assuming you knew exactly what way the writers were thinking, I am actually using what was on screen, so unless you have G&k on speed dial use must have the ability to read minds.

Quote:Syscrash, Eve said she could never forgive Juliette for the things she’s done and one of those things she done was setting up Kelly. Juliette is responseible for Kelly’s death, she brought her town and led her to her death all this was on screen. She was clearly very ashamed of herself when Diania brought up Kelly’s as she had a flash back of her head in a box. The actor that played Nick even said the hexenbiest Juliette is responsible for Nicks moms death I have even posted the interview in another thread and will do it agian if you wish.

Quote:How do they contradict each other, Nick told the gang to kill Juliette but he couldn’t personally do it when she was their in front of him beacuse he still loved her.

Quote:You are making assumptions how do you know for what reasons Juliette would and wouldn’t murder trubel for, Trubel said I wasn’t trying to kill you but I would to protect Nick and Eve just said you should know Juliette would kill you too anything else is an assumption.

Quote:You claimed Juliette is not a killer which was a lie I was just pointing out Juliette can kill and would have killed Adalind if not for the guard these are facts.

(01-24-2018, 09:27 AM)Henry of green Wrote: David’s words in interview below

I know, right? Is there a worse time in a guy’s life to find out your woman has come back? We’re all in the middle of being killed! On top of that, Nick is now in love with a Hexenbiest and they have a child. Nick’s also gotta be thinking, “Does Juliette know she killed my mother, when she was Eve?” And who is actually responsible for that death? If it was Juliette, Nick couldn’t forgive her. If it happened as a side effect from Juliette becoming Adalind—which she was trying to do for Nick’s benefit—then I guess he would have to forgive her. So all that is yet to be discovered. But, right now, it’s all too much for Nick to take in. He’s, like, “We can’t do this now!”

https://www.tvinsider.com/89652/grimm-se...-showdown/

(01-24-2018, 10:10 AM)syscrash Wrote:

Quote:Syscrash, Eve said she could never forgive Juliette for the things she’s done and one of those things she done was setting up Kelly. Juliette is responseible for Kelly’s death, she brought her town and led her to her death all this was on screen. She was clearly very ashamed of herself when Diania brought up Kelly’s as she had a flash back of her head in a box. The actor that played Nick even said the hexenbiest Juliette is responsible for Nicks moms death I have even posted the interview in another thread and will do it agian if you wish.

If you think that is what was said then post the text. I posted the text to prove my point.
Like I said you have no idea what things she was referring to. She said for the things she did. Not all the things she did.
Yes she helped get Kelly to portland and to the house. But no one on the show accuses her of killing kelly. Nick only accuses Juliette of setting Kelly up not killing her. He accused Kenneth and the veratte but not Juliette. If I am wrong post the text.

You said you posted the text where Nick says Juliette is responsible. then yes post it.

---

Quote:How do they contradict each other, Nick told the gang to kill Juliette but he couldn’t personally do it when she was their in front of him beacuse he still loved her.

The contradiction is you said he went to the mansion to kill her. her getting on the helicopter is why he did not. Then you say at the house he could not kill her because he loved her.

Quote:You are making assumptions how do you know for what reasons Juliette would and wouldn’t murder trubel for, Trubel said I wasn’t trying to kill you but I would to protect Nick and Eve just said you should know Juliette would kill you too anything else is an assumption.

You are conflating the two statements. They a two separate trains of thought. The first being Trubel say I was not trying to kill you. Eve acknowledging that she knew that. this first idea establish death was not involved. The second part was Trubel saying she would have killed Eve if she had to. To which Eve replied that Juliette would have killed her. That says if Trubel had used deadly force., then Juliette would have killed her.

that is what it says in the order that it was said. You rearrange the statements to get a different perception.
Now here is the great thing about exposition as opposed to real life. In real life Eve could not have known Trubel was not trying to kill her. But this is a show and exposition is there to make a point and needs not be logical.

Quote:You claimed Juliette is not a killer which was a lie I was just pointing out Juliette can kill and would have killed Adalind if not for the guard these are facts.

I never said Juliette is not a killer. I said until she became Eve which was the culmination of her wesen change. She still had her human sensibilities about killing and death. That was the point she was making in the spice shop when she stated she was losing herself. The statue incident was to give the statement context. After she was a full wesen. She was like all other wesen. Killing and death are part of the circle of life.
To see the difference in attitude. Take the wesenrien event. Juliette, Hank, and Wu had an emotional reaction. Seen, Monroe, and Rosalee it was like a walk in the park.

As for david's words remember he ended with "So all that is yet to be discovered". He also made this statement after Juliette death but before Eve. Also remember he also like the other answer question from the characters point of view. Not from what they know. At that point the character did not know what to think. He had not had time to think about it.

(01-24-2018, 12:55 PM)Henry of green Wrote: All isn’t yet to be discovered David made that statement just before the end of season 5 all has already been discovered, David, said Nick could forgive Juliette if it was Eve that got his mother killed and not regular Juliette, and what he means by Eve is Juliette’s hexenbiest.

Quote:Nick: You want to know what isn't easy? Knowing that you set me up... and that you set up my mother. What, are you gonna pretend like you don't remember?
Eve: I remember everything. I would have killed you.