(07-01-2017, 02:31 AM)silver Wrote: While I was watching it for the first, second, third times etc., I had questions that went unanswered as the drama unfolded. I wondered first off, why would Kelly even bring Diana if she knew violence was going to greet her? Surely Kelly had to know this, immediately upon receiving the email that Nick was in danger. Incredibly unbelievable part of the story. No one to blame but the writers and directors of Grimm. It was Stupid beyond belief, for me.

That whole segment was full of holes! Sucked big time. And hardly worth arguing about. The writers were that much of a moron. and What in the above is a figment of your imagination? Pretty much all of the story as it unfolded past the point of Kelly showing up with Diana for me, anyway - unbelievable story. Kelly would be dumb beyond belief for towing Diana along why? Why would she expose the kid to known violence about to happen? Made zero sense.

(06-30-2017, 11:48 PM)silver Wrote: At what point would a person earn the death penalty, if ever?

Quote:5. Retaliatory murder of a member of the immediate family of law enforcement officials
13. First-degree murder
20. Murder during a kidnapping
38. Murder involving torture

Quote:Kenneth: May I present Miss Juliette Silverton, without whose help this would not have been possible. Juliette, this is King Frederick Von—
Frederick: That's plenty. I cannot thank you enough. You will be well taken care of. A whole new life awaits you in Vienna. I've always had a soft spot for Hexenbiests.

Quote:Nick: She was set up, Hank. My mother was smart. There was no way she would have showed up if she didn't think she was safe, especially with the child.
Hank: Why would she come here at all? You didn't contact her.
Nick: Somebody did, and the only way could have been from my computer.
Hank: So who had access?
Nick: Only me... and Juliette.
Hank: Kelly would have trusted her.
Nick: With her life.
Hank: I think maybe she did, Nick.

(07-01-2017, 05:44 AM)New Guy Wrote:

(06-30-2017, 11:48 PM)silver Wrote: At what point would a person earn the death penalty, if ever?

Hello Silver,
The death penalty applies to 41 Federal Offenses:
http://deathpenalty.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004927
Several apply to the murder of Kelly Burkhardt:

Quote:5. Retaliatory murder of a member of the immediate family of law enforcement officials
13. First-degree murder
20. Murder during a kidnapping
38. Murder involving torture

You may believe Hexenette was stupid enough to think Kenneth and his Verat thugs had only pure intentions while they loaded their guns but it she absolutely and irrefutably used Kelly's trust to betray her and lure her into the ambush, murder and decapitation. She directly participated in planning the murder of Kelly and her neighbors by providing details to Kenneth.
Kenneth's introduction of her to King Fredrick is particularly damning evidence:

Quote:Kenneth: May I present Miss Juliette Silverton, without whose help this would not have been possible. Juliette, this is King Frederick Von—
Frederick: That's plenty. I cannot thank you enough. You will be well taken care of. A whole new life awaits you in Vienna. I've always had a soft spot for Hexenbiests.

Nick clearly knew she was the only one who could have betrayed Kelly:

Quote:Nick: She was set up, Hank. My mother was smart. There was no way she would have showed up if she didn't think she was safe, especially with the child.
Hank: Why would she come here at all? You didn't contact her.
Nick: Somebody did, and the only way could have been from my computer.
Hank: So who had access?
Nick: Only me... and Juliette.
Hank: Kelly would have trusted her.
Nick: With her life.
Hank: I think maybe she did, Nick.

Even if Hexenette was a clueless imbecile she was clearly key to Kenneth's murder and decapitation of Kelly. She was an Accomplice in the murder, earning herself the death penalty. Unfortunately, Nick was unable to avenge his mother and Trubel had to kill Hexenette.
N G

Quote:Robyn said, "Most of all, Juliette and Adalind are fictional characters victimized by a creative team who refused to commit to characterization and storylines."

(07-01-2017, 07:41 AM)Robyn Wrote: This conversation quickly shifted into yet another Juliette vs. Adalind debate...

(07-01-2017, 07:41 AM)Robyn Wrote: Juliette didn’t die at the hands of Meisner/ HW in S5. Juliette died at the hands of G & K in S4.

(07-01-2017, 07:41 AM)Robyn Wrote: This conversation quickly shifted into yet another Juliette vs. Adalind debate.

I’m pretty much in the Zerstörer was lame camp. G & K built up Zerstörer as the most evil & powerful nemesis Nick would ever battle by rewriting any prophesy, legend, and biblical reference they could come up with, even turning the name Shaphat into a child bride seeking demon instead of playing out Diana’s original storyline of becoming the ultimate instrument of good or evil. You know, the only reason provided for the gang stealing someone’s baby in S3. And the one Kelly doesn’t even mention in S6 despite once insisting she was the only person capable of steering the super powerful, ritually created child in the right direction.

But G & K throwing in everything except the kitchen sink and dropping a pivotal storyline isn’t what actually made Zerstörer lame for me. It was that the minute Kelly and Marie entered the fray Zerstörer suddenly fought like any run of the mill demon. He suddenly stopped using his staff to hurl his opponents with super sonic blasts of energy. He didn’t even attempt to impale anyone. And most of all, he didn’t use his mind control over Diana to place her between himself and Grimms, which could have brought Kelly’s S3 warning to fruition one way or the other.

Hexenbiest Juliette. Good grief what a mess. I don’t think G & K’s refusal to commit to a storyline or characterization was ever so evident as it was with Juliette becoming a Hexenbiest. The Hexenbiest may have been too powerful for Juliette to control because it was created by a spell. However, according to Adalind, who never mentioned the spell actually making a difference, Hexenbiest in general exert control & influence over the host. Which hardly makes sense considering Adalind was her most ruthless while human and willing to trade her baby to become a Hexenbiest again. It could also be that absolute power corrupts absolutely, and Juliette was once again a victim of circumstances beyond her control. Tired of being a victim and vulnerable, the ability to protect herself and exact revenge was simply too enticing to resist. Or maybe she finally had the power to do whatever she wanted and refused to give it up for anyone. Or maybe Chupacabra did it. All or none of these scenarios could explain what happened to Juliette because G & K never committed one way or the other.

Juliette remained upstairs apparently conflicted over what was happening to Kelly but unwilling to stop it. Then she went to Nick for a combination heart to heart and final showdown, still conflicted and also confused that the Royals would actually harm Nick’s mother. And that ridiculous reaction relates directly back to the supposed compelling argument to kidnap Diana in S3. Team Grimm had to make Viktor believe they handed over the baby because he threatened to cut a bloody path across Portland otherwise. Kelly had to take Diana into hiding because the Royals would stop at nothing to find her. Yet, Juliette didn’t suspect that Kenneth was willing to kill to get Diana in S4.

Juliette didn’t die at the hands of Meisner/ HW in S5. Juliette died at the hands of G & K in S4. Juliette and Adalind are each a victim of circumstances beyond her control. Juliette and Adalind are each responsible for not taking control of her life and distancing herself from people and circumstances that would become her downfall. Most of all, Juliette and Adalind are fictional characters victimized by a creative team who refused to commit to characterization and storylines.