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+--- Thread: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? (/Thread-If-Kelly-wasn-t-killed-what-would-she-have-felt-and-done)
RE: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? - irukandji - 05-17-2017
(05-16-2017, 10:12 PM)Mrtrick Wrote:(05-16-2017, 08:10 PM)irukandji Wrote:(05-16-2017, 07:12 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: Adalind was being forced at that point to go along until the resistance helped her.
I believe that all of Grimm does not make any sense if the contract was not about Z. The keys predicted Diana would be in danger on 3/24/2017. If Diana did not have those powers then the keys prediction would not have happen.
Well, we all look at it differently. Getting back to the original gist of the thread, it's my opinion that Adalind should have relinquished Diana to Stefania. She was the one who went to Austria and fostered the deal in the first place.
Wow. You really feel that Adalind should have handed Diana over, just because it's proper deal making etiquette? Without any second thoughts!? That's....Well...I'm not sure what that is. It's a Baby! Not a sack of potatoes! And who cares who fostered whatever deal? There are some things that are bigger than any contract. If the supposed wronged parties feel misled, then I would politely say, they can go jump in a lake.
Is it really a question of right and wrong here or a question of a fantasy? Occasionally, when I question something Nick does wrong, like violating his law enforcement oath or murders a wesen, I'm told it's just part of his grimm legacy. I'm told this is fantasy and not reality. I've been frequently told it's not LAW and ORDER.
So the RULES that govern the real world do not apply.
I was asked:
"So she should have gone ahead and given them Diana because she was forced to sign a contract? Her word is more important than realizing what she did was wrong and taking steps to protect her child? What she did was wrong but I think her integrity would have been completely lost had she gone through with the contract."
I asked the question back, "why not"?
Adalind's a witch. Magic and potions are her legacy. She operates within a world that does not use the same rules as ours. A baby's a baby, but to her, it was also a bargaining chip. She found nothing wrong with making a deal, why should we?
In the **GRIMM** world of fantasy, she made a bargain with another witch. She bargained to get a hexenbiest spirit in exchange for handing over her baby. You may be horrified that she should give it up but the reasoning stands. **SHE** made the decision and it's a fantasy program and she did it all within the confines of the **GRIMM** world. It was okay with her. She never made the decision to keep the baby because all of the sudden she grew a conscience and realized the bargain was an evil one. She wanted the baby and the hexenbiest.
You were the one who argued with me about Nick's murderous children killing wesen because of they're sticking to ther grimm heritage, yet you're completely outraged at the same mother making a deal to obtain a hexenbiest spirit in exchange for her baby and I say she should have kept her end of the bargain?
Either these people pay homage to their heritages by doing what they do, grimm, wesen, or hexenbiest *and* this is a fantasy. Or you look at them as murderers, and apply real world laws. It cannot be both ways.
I would imagine that in the GRIMM world of fantasy, hexenbiests would have frowned on Adalind's antics. She murdered one of their own and spat on her legacy at the same time.
RE: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? - Mrtrick - 05-17-2017
(05-17-2017, 04:42 AM)irukandji Wrote:(05-16-2017, 10:12 PM)Mrtrick Wrote:(05-16-2017, 08:10 PM)irukandji Wrote:(05-16-2017, 07:12 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: Adalind was being forced at that point to go along until the resistance helped her.
I believe that all of Grimm does not make any sense if the contract was not about Z. The keys predicted Diana would be in danger on 3/24/2017. If Diana did not have those powers then the keys prediction would not have happen.
Well, we all look at it differently. Getting back to the original gist of the thread, it's my opinion that Adalind should have relinquished Diana to Stefania. She was the one who went to Austria and fostered the deal in the first place.
Wow. You really feel that Adalind should have handed Diana over, just because it's proper deal making etiquette? Without any second thoughts!? That's....Well...I'm not sure what that is. It's a Baby! Not a sack of potatoes! And who cares who fostered whatever deal? There are some things that are bigger than any contract. If the supposed wronged parties feel misled, then I would politely say, they can go jump in a lake.
Is it really a question of right and wrong here or a question of a fantasy? Occasionally, when I question something Nick does wrong, like violating his law enforcement oath or murders a wesen, I'm told it's just part of his grimm legacy. I'm told this is fantasy and not reality. I've been frequently told it's not LAW and ORDER.
So the RULES that govern the real world do not apply.
I was asked:
"So she should have gone ahead and given them Diana because she was forced to sign a contract? Her word is more important than realizing what she did was wrong and taking steps to protect her child? What she did was wrong but I think her integrity would have been completely lost had she gone through with the contract."
I asked the question back, "why not"?
Adalind's a witch. Magic and potions are her legacy. She operates within a world that does not use the same rules as ours. A baby's a baby, but to her, it was also a bargaining chip. She found nothing wrong with making a deal, why should we?
In the **GRIMM** world of fantasy, she made a bargain with another witch. She bargained to get a hexenbiest spirit in exchange for handing over her baby. You may be horrified that she should give it up but the reasoning stands. **SHE** made the decision and it's a fantasy program and she did it all within the confines of the **GRIMM** world. It was okay with her. She never made the decision to keep the baby because all of the sudden she grew a conscience and realized the bargain was an evil one. She wanted the baby and the hexenbiest.
You were the one who argued with me about Nick's murderous children killing wesen because of they're sticking to ther grimm heritage, yet you're completely outraged at the same mother making a deal to obtain a hexenbiest spirit in exchange for her baby and I say she should have kept her end of the bargain?
Either these people pay homage to their heritages by doing what they do, grimm, wesen, or hexenbiest *and* this is a fantasy. Or you look at them as murderers, and apply real world laws. It cannot be both ways.
I would imagine that in the GRIMM world of fantasy, hexenbiests would have frowned on Adalind's antics. She murdered one of their own and spat on her legacy at the same time.
So what if she spat on her Hexenbeist legacy. It's a crappy legacy. And one, she herself, isn't particularly fond of. There's a difference between Nadalind's grown children going into battle and a bunch of people haggling over an infant. Unless they're going off to kill babies, which seems doubtful. And if Adalind had handed Diana over, how can anyone ever sympathize with her again? How can her redemption be possible, since this is it's inception? She would have simply remained a villain....Ah..That's the real reason you would have preferred it that way. If Adalind never keeps Diana, the chain of events leading to so many things you hate, (including Nadalind), is broken. If she makes the worst possible decision, your dream version of the show is protected in it's little bubble.
RE: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? - MarylikesGrimm - 05-17-2017
(05-17-2017, 04:42 AM)irukandji Wrote: I would imagine that in the GRIMM world of fantasy, hexenbiests would have frowned on Adalind's antics. She murdered one of their own and spat on her legacy at the same time.Adalind was not even awake when Stefania killed Frau Pech a long time rival.
Mary summary: Adalind had no idea how to get her powers back that is why Frau Pech and her went to Stefania Vaduva Popescu who had great knowledge of the wesen world even though she was human. Frau Pech was also a long time rival of Stefania had used a tea to put Adalind to sleep and to make herself look like Adalind. Stefania tricked Frau Pech, looking like Adalind, for her heart by stabbing her. The real Adalind woke up and one of Stefania's son brought her to Stefania.
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Stefania_Vaduva_Popescu
RE: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? - brandon - 05-17-2017
Her case is like so many others in which the woman repents of giving it in adoption.
I think they have time to change their minds-according to the law-
Although it should not happen the same when someone leaves a baby in the street
RE: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? - rpmaluki - 05-17-2017
Some people (for some reason or another) just don't want Adalind to repent and stay that way. What I love about her is that she started changing not for a man but for her kids and that's the Adalind I love, I don't care what hexenbiest "code" she broke in keeping Diana after Stefania forced her to "sign" the contract before she could even read it. I was never a fan of the 2 dimensional wicked witch from the earlier seasons.
RE: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? - Hell Rell - 05-17-2017
Diana and Kelly going to take care of some wesen being compared to Adalind handing over baby Diana to honor a contract her hand was forced upon are two different things. That's such a false equivalency.
Adalind decided to sell Diana before she was born because she wasn't real to her yet. She may have saw her as a bargaining chip until she gave birth to the living, breathing baby and held her in her arms. Adalind realized she could not give that child up because now she's no longer a bargaining chip but a living being who she cares very much for now. And I don't see what's wrong with her growing a conscience and making a different decision.
In terms of legacy, I wasn't aware giving away babies was part of the Hexenbiest lore.
(05-17-2017, 04:42 AM)irukandji Wrote: You were the one who argued with me about Nick's murderous children killing wesen because of they're sticking to their Grimm heritage, yet you're completely outraged at the same mother making a deal to obtain a hexenbiest spirit in exchange for her baby and I say she should have kept her end of the bargain?
I may be misinterpreting this because of the way you're phrasing this so I'll ask you to clarify. Do you believe Diana and Kelly are out there killing wesen indiscriminately?
RE: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? - brandon - 05-17-2017
That Diana said something like that does not mean anything. Would be his way of speaking.
Kelly and Diana have grown up under the tutelage of Nick-and Adalind-, who never killed indiscriminately and the same would say about Sean.
RE: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? - Hell Rell - 05-17-2017
(05-17-2017, 09:29 AM)brandon Wrote: That Diana said something like that does not mean anything. Would be his way of speaking.
Kelly and Diana have grown up under the tutelage of Nick-and Adalind-, who never killed indiscriminately and the same would say about Sean.
In all honesty, I just think it was a cool tagline to end the show with for them. There's no way they're just picking wesen at random to kill and that's not what anyone was supposed to take away from it.
RE: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? - rpmaluki - 05-17-2017
(05-17-2017, 10:12 AM)Hell Rell Wrote:(05-17-2017, 09:29 AM)brandon Wrote: That Diana said something like that does not mean anything. Would be his way of speaking.
Kelly and Diana have grown up under the tutelage of Nick-and Adalind-, who never killed indiscriminately and the same would say about Sean.
In all honesty, I just think it was a cool tagline to end the show with for them. There's no way they're just picking wesen at random to kill and that's not what anyone was supposed to take away from it.
Funny enough that's what some think while disregarding six years of Nick and Monroe/Rosalee never killing indiscriminately except when the wesen was truly evil (motive and actions) and past the point of arresting them. These are their offspring going after [bad] wesen along with Nick, what could have possibly changed between beating the biggest bad they've ever come across and the "20 years later" that could make them go after every wesen when the kids are wesen themselves?
RE: If Kelly wasn't killed what would she have felt and done? - Devegs - 05-17-2017
(05-17-2017, 05:58 AM)Mrtrick Wrote:(05-17-2017, 04:42 AM)irukandji Wrote: Is it really a question of right and wrong here or a question of a fantasy? Occasionally, when I question something Nick does wrong, like violating his law enforcement oath or murders a wesen, I'm told it's just part of his grimm legacy. I'm told this is fantasy and not reality. I've been frequently told it's not LAW and ORDER.
So the RULES that govern the real world do not apply.
I was asked:
"So she should have gone ahead and given them Diana because she was forced to sign a contract? Her word is more important than realizing what she did was wrong and taking steps to protect her child? What she did was wrong but I think her integrity would have been completely lost had she gone through with the contract."
I asked the question back, "why not"?
Adalind's a witch. Magic and potions are her legacy. She operates within a world that does not use the same rules as ours. A baby's a baby, but to her, it was also a bargaining chip. She found nothing wrong with making a deal, why should we?
In the **GRIMM** world of fantasy, she made a bargain with another witch. She bargained to get a hexenbiest spirit in exchange for handing over her baby. You may be horrified that she should give it up but the reasoning stands. **SHE** made the decision and it's a fantasy program and she did it all within the confines of the **GRIMM** world. It was okay with her. She never made the decision to keep the baby because all of the sudden she grew a conscience and realized the bargain was an evil one. She wanted the baby and the hexenbiest.
You were the one who argued with me about Nick's murderous children killing wesen because of they're sticking to ther grimm heritage, yet you're completely outraged at the same mother making a deal to obtain a hexenbiest spirit in exchange for her baby and I say she should have kept her end of the bargain?
Either these people pay homage to their heritages by doing what they do, grimm, wesen, or hexenbiest *and* this is a fantasy. Or you look at them as murderers, and apply real world laws. It cannot be both ways.
I would imagine that in the GRIMM world of fantasy, hexenbiests would have frowned on Adalind's antics. She murdered one of their own and spat on her legacy at the same time.
... And if Adalind had handed Diana over, how can anyone ever sympathize with her again? How can her redemption be possible, since this is it's inception? She would have simply remained a villain....Ah..That's the real reason you would have preferred it that way. If Adalind never keeps Diana, the chain of events leading to so many things you hate, (including Nadalind), is broken. If she makes the worst possible decision, your dream version of the show is protected in it's little bubble.
Bullseye! @Mr Trick.
It was more about 'spinning'. LOL
Your comment below is spot on.
(05-16-2017, 01:25 PM)Mrtrick Wrote: you fault her for doing the wrong thing. But you also fault her for doing the right thing...
Just watch out for the next one on another character. It'll come soon.
Maybe it'll go back to Kelly since this thread is about her.
(05-17-2017, 07:29 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: In terms of legacy, I wasn't aware giving away babies was part of the Hexenbiest lore.
I wasn't aware of this either and it's not based on the show, though some of you were all discussing the show and not "what if's". Lol