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+--- Thread: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt (/Thread-Nicholas-Nick-Burkhardt)
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - syscrash - 12-12-2016
Quote:Nick was fine with Adalind taking the potion and he was the dad. Adalind most likely save Kelly by preventing health issues with his mixed heritage.How do you come up with these idea of Grimm and hexenbiest children having a problem. At the most the Grimm will kill the hexenbiest spirit as Nick did to Adalind. But in Adalind case she is immune.
You say Nick was fine with Adalind taking the potion. The question is why. Adalind has a 100% track record of her potions having side effects. Yet no one not even Rosalee seem concerned about the effect on the unborn child. The only concern was shown by Adalind about the effects on her when her powers came back. She told Adalind she was not sure how they would come back. I don't immagine the show will actually have it effect Kelly. But that does not change her perceived state of mind as it relates to concern for her child. What women do you know would take some untested concoction while pregnant.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - rpmaluki - 12-13-2016
Quote:That is minimizing her actions.I never underscored Adalind's actions, I misspoke when I said "planned" instead of "sold" Diana. It was despicable of her. Adalind will never live long enough to make up for her mistakes, especially where Diana's concerned but robbing Adalind of her baby doesn't help the situation. She had an ephiphany where Diana's concerned, she discovered a love for her daughter and chose not to give her up, I don't care what she did before this moment, but the fact that she had a "come to Jesus" moment where her child is concerned is enough for me to commend her. That doesn't make her a good person or even mother of the year but considering who she was before that moment, I'll take what I can get, I'm not a fan of child abandonment. If the world crashed and burnt around her as a result of Adalind choosing Diana, I would be more than satisfied and I am. But lucky for the world, that never happened. She doesn't have to fix all her mistakes at once and she never will fix all of them but choosing to love and keep her daughter is a start for me.
Quote:How about for the rest of Diana short life. At the rate Diana is growing she will never see her 18 birthday.Why are you assuming Diana has a short life span? She's already defied physics and nature by her extraordinary birth, who's to say she won't do the same with he life? The writers haven't said anything definitive, so to say she will not see 18 is rather presumptuous.
Quote:Instead of going to class why not let her enjoy the short life she has left. Let her use her magic as she wants. She will be dead before the consequences become a problem.School isn't at the top of my "how to rehabilitate" Diana list, in the two short years she's been alive, she's been on the run, surrounded by death, committed murder and has zero concept of right or wrong. You can't let a child like Diana simply be free to use her powers as she chooses because that involves murder and levitating her baby brother for fun. She needs strong guidance that readjusts her perception of the world around her, she is a child it doesn't matter how grown she is, may look in the future or even how powerful she is. She has become a danger to those around her and thus needs to be shown the right way of doing things as Kelly had originally intended but never got far because now we have a homicidal Diana to contend with. The kidnapping of Diana cancelled out any good intentions Kelly had, stopped any plans she had for Diana because we saw the havoc it wrought in Nick, Juliette, Adalind and her own life in the end and we are still seeing the consequences of Kelly's error even today with Diana, the very person she felt would be better off without her mother.
Old adalind was immature, not ready to raise a special child like Diana. The old Adalind would have been happy to let Diana do her thing consequences be damned but life has taught Adalind a hard lesson and now wants better for her daughter and has shifted from being selfish and immature to thinking about what's best for her children now, it doesn't matter whether you agree with Adalind's approach or not, it is what she believes is right for them and that is a vast difference between this Adalind and the old Adalind who cared only about herself.
Quote:Considering Diana only has less then a year and she will be an adult. The best thing for her is for Eve to train her to protect herself. Instead of people continuing to think the best thing is to treat her like a child.Diana is a two year old in the body of an eight your old with powers of an old super "super" hexenbiest. even if she had the appearance of adult she would still be a child and nothing we've see so far says she acts her superficial age. She throws tantrums like any two year old only interested only in what she wants and nothing else but the difference between her an a normal child is a normal child will throw their toys, scream their lungs out and roll on the floor in frustration but Diana uses her powers dangerously, she kills without a second thought, that's her form of throwing a tantrum.
What in the world would Eve teach her? The child has more powers and more experience in using them. The last thing she needs is to be indulged in using her powers to solve problems. We know Eve will have an identity crisis in S6, no time to be training anyone in anything when neck deep in her own problems., plus Diana doesn't exaclty like Eve so even less chance Diana would listen to her than her own mother.
Quote:There is not normal life in Diana's future, Adalind saw to that. Instead of being in denial of what Diana is like Nick was in denial of what Juliette was. Diana like Juliette should be in training to handle her powers. Especially Diana she will be constantly challenged by those that feel they are stronger then her.So you advocate brainwashing a two year old to being nothing more than another emotionless killing machine? There is no normal for Diana, that much is true. However, it doesn't mean you throw up your hands and simply giving on trying to give her some form of a normal upbringing. She's literally the most powerful two year old in the world and could grow stronger the older she gets, nobody will likely ever be more powerful than her, she has nothing to fear even now as a child. Conrad may have thought he was the biggest bad that ever was but that two year old could probably run circles around him blindfolded with her hands tied behind her back.
She doesn't need to learn to control her powers, she has that control already. She just needs to learn to be a well adjusted member of society that doesn't resort to murder every time someone displeases her. The grown ups around her need to nurture her and see her a child that needs love and stability and normal is a start in helping Diana. Kelly miscalculated, thinking keeping mother and child would help Diana, it didn't. Diana needed her mother (screw up that she is/was) and I think Conrad possibly saw the wisdom in that at least when he pushed Renard to cook up a fake relationship with Adalind. Diana's attachment to her mother is key to getting what you want, whether it's "world peace" (Kelly) or world dominion (Conrad), It's a hyperbole by you get the point. To control Adalind is to control Diana to achieve your ultimate goal.
But thankfully Adalind now has a better view of what her daughter needs, but like she said to Nick, there are just people out there who will never leave them alone. I am glad that Adalind will at least spend S6 trying to rear her child as best as she can. It's not going to be easy but I'd rather that than have Diana be left with those who chose instead to use her for their personal agenda or even her father who cares more about amassing power, so he played into Conrad's hands instead protecting his child from people like Conrad, or her Royal relatives who are just shifty as hell and also care about the power that little girl has than anything else (Frederick and his obsession with hexenbiests and that's not forgetting his inability to stand up to his wife on Sean's behalf when his son had to flee for his life, so suddenly he comes out of the woodwork for his granddaughter? Please...) Diana has already had too many people (want) to use her in her very short life, I say enough of that and just let her be a child in a loving and stable home environment where she would learn to have responsibility of the immense power she has.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - syscrash - 12-13-2016
Quote:You can't let a child like Diana simply be free to use her powers as she chooses because that involves murder and levitating her baby brother for fun. She needs strong guidance that readjusts her perception of the world around her, she is a child it doesn't matter how grown she is, may look in the future or even how powerful she is. She has become a danger to those around her and thus needs to be shown the right way of doing thingsNot once has Diana been a danger to those close to her. More then once Diana has saved Adalind's life. Taking out Rachael and Conrad what is the complaint. Both would kill you in a heartbeat. Conrad almost did kill Adalind. Is the problem because you see Diana as a child and you worry it will effect her. Really! Diana is not wired that way. No normal parenting skills would work for her. Would you want to be the one to punish her. You suggested getting her to adjust into society. There is no one that could even come close to relating to what Diana's life is like.
Quote:She needs strong guidance that readjusts her perception of the world around her, she is a child it doesn't matter how grown she is,Remember she is growing mentally as fast as she is growing physically. Just what perception of the would you try and give her. She is all powerful and does what she wants. She seems to want to please Adalind. But does not listen to her and never will. How do you explain to Diana not to kill. She is eight and understands what she is doing.
What you forget she a maturing faster then behavior modification would be effective. There is a big difference between how she acted in the warehouse and how she acts now. On top of that you forget hexenbiest have an instinctual need for revenge. Something you would not be able to change. In the warehouse with the sheet metal that was a tantrum. Rachael and Conrad that was revenge. You make many references to how Adalind should parent Diana as a child. You forget in six months she will be a teen.
What would you expect Adalind to teach her. don't forget Adalind is a hexenbiest with the same tendencies that you find objectionable about Diana, the need for revenge. Why do you think Adalind felt nothing about Diana taking out Rachael.
You keep making these mother daughter connections. Adalind and Diana are hexenbiest. Diana is a special hexenbiest. Diana does not respond to anyone's influence. brainwashing would be a waste on Diana. She is not someone looking for or willing to except direction. Twice we have seen Diana in a situation where those taking care of her whee in danger. Yet she did not lift a finger to help. She was not even effected by what happened. That is because she does not respond to anything outside of what she wants or needs.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - rpmaluki - 12-13-2016
Now you're the one minimising the danger she poses seeing she has no concept of boundaries and her emotional quotient is practically bankrupt. There's nothing to prove that Diana isn't a danger to those close to her. We've seen that on the show, whether from her own actions or inactions, it doesn't matter, she is a danger. When Sean kidnapped Adalind to the warehouse and Diana insisted on Adalind to come home with them, causing wall covering to loosen that prompted Sean to ask/beg Adalind to "do something" to make Diana stop before she hurt anyone. The point is, if you cross Diana, she gets mad and isn't discriminating about how she reacts. She jumped to the conclusion that Sean strangled Adalind, Adalind told her it wasn't her Daddy, but that is a sign that not even her parents are immune to making Diana angry. She gave Eve a fright when their wires got crossed when she was trying to contact her mother. She blackmailed/strong armed Adalind to leave Nick while pretending to be Sean.
Nothing that aired says Diana is mature for her age. She's the furthest thing from. She has no regard for life, for her parents' wishes or the fact that she could have dropped her baby brother from a few feet off the floor, that's not normal, that;s not safe or else Adalind wouldn't have had a mini freak out and tried to instruct her daughter never to handle Kelly in that manner.
I'm not saying how Adalind should parent Diana strictly, only that Diana needs to be parented so she's no threat at all (and Adalind seems to be the only one interested in that since Kelly died) as she is a child not some soldier/weapon meant only to exist to use her powers for good or evil. She looks at Diana and she sees her baby girl that's a little way more than wayward but at the same time she's aware of those that want to use Diana for nefarious purposes. Why shouldn't Adalind try to help her child be as normal as can be, that's her wish. Yes they are hexenbiests and circumstance may prevent any success in Adalind's attempts my point is that should at least try/she's the one looking to trying.
Who cares how old she'll be in a few months or years? Without someone caring for this girl in the right way, in the way that she needs and is to her benefit, she may literally bring about the doomsday apocalyse because some grown ups cared more about what she could do for them that what they did for her? She deserves to have some semblance of a normal life as is possible under the circumstance regardless of the success or failure. If Diana should lives to be eighteen/eighty, real age then I'd rather she have lived a good life with those that truly loved her and wanted the best for her. I repeat she's not a soldier despite people wanting to use her in their war.
Diana is independent but has listened to her mother to an extent. It's not a lot and I think Adalind is going to struggle a whole lot more in S6 but what we have seen so far is certainly Adalind having some influence, much more than anyone will ever have. The situation with Diana is precarious, uncertain, dangerous but as a mother Adalind has to put in every effort in protecting Diana, whether from Renard or Nick or any other person that has little regard for her well being or means to use her selfishly. I repeat, I'm not saying Adalind will succeed, I only ask that she make the effort instead leaving it to chance or some other random person to cross Diana's path. Adalind can no longer afford to let other people dictate to her what the fate of her daughter is. If Sean won't help, then it's up to Adalind alone because nobody else will do it for her.
You are more focused on Adalind not being the right person to bring up her own child, then I ask who is, given the information we have about the upcoming season and what makes that person more qualified than a mother that loves her completely and unconditionally (and no I'm not going to go back to what Adalind did before she gave birth because that was evident on the show that she didn't care for her baby until it was born).
Juliette was brainwashed in order to become Eve. Diana is strong willed, if love and attachment to her mother and father can't change her or make her controllable, how do you suggest an organization HW/similar) train her unless it's to brainwash her like they did Eve? I have read several comments from you touting Eve as someone who'll somehow grow close to Diana (or at least this is your hope/prediction for the season). You seem convinced Eve is somehow a better option at making Diana into whatever you want her to be, why is that better than what Adalind wants? Mind you, there's nothing on the show that shows Eve wanting anything to do with Diana, be it association or caring for her in any way at all.
Diana wants her family in tact and is behaving deplorably to make it happen. Of the characters on this show who will be stepping up and show her that that's not how it works while risking her wrath? You may not like my answer but it's the only one the show is providing. I will tip my hat to Sean if he makes equal efforts to doing right by Diana, he should. Diana needs both her parents, just not in the way she wants (un)happily married She can't force them to be/do anything they don't want.
We are slowly getting the sysnopsis for this upcoming season, and so far I see that it's Adalind that will be dealing with Diana a lot more than the others to (hopefully) steer her daughter on the right path with baby Kelly in tow as a hexenbiest or not, while Sean and Nick get into once again, busy dealing with "manly" things.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - MarylikesGrimm - 12-13-2016
(12-13-2016, 01:59 AM)syscrash Wrote: What would you expect Adalind to teach her. don't forget Adalind is a hexenbiest with the same tendencies that you find objectionable about Diana, the need for revenge. Why do you think Adalind felt nothing about Diana taking out Rachael.
Current Adalind was against her daughter's killing Rachel. She did not care if Sean had a mistress. Sean was against the death. Diana can do things against her parents. Adalind wants to be a good mother. Sean is expecting Adalind to discipline Diana.
http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=27307
Hey. You're still awake.
It's a little hard to sleep with all that's going on downstairs. What happened to your face? Rough night at the precinct.
[tense music] Rachel's dead. Dead? Yeah, smothered to death in her own bed. How long's Diana been asleep?
Couple of hours. Why?
I think we need to talk to her.
About what?
About killing people. Did you encourage her?
To kill your girlfriend?
Yeah, Sean, I told my daughter to murder her daddy's mistress. What kind of mother do you think I am?
She wants us to be together. She might've perceived Rachel as a threat.
Well, that's your doing, not mine.
Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=27307
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - syscrash - 12-13-2016
Quote:Nothing that aired says Diana is mature for her age. She's the furthest thing from. She has no regard for life, for her parents' wishes or the fact that she could have dropped her baby brother from a few feet off the floor, that's not normal, that;s not safe or else Adalind wouldn't have had a mini freak out and tried to instruct her daughter never to handle Kelly in that manner.Diana is a hexenbiest and none of the things you describe would apply. You find a problem with how she handled Rachael and Conrad. I would agree with you if she was not a hexenbiest. We now see she can take on adults. she is now no different then Adalind or Eve. Both of them have seeked extreme revenge on people. You can't Judge Diana by her age. She is no more dangerous or has any less regard for life then Adalind or Eve. As for Adalind trying to parent. Why would Diana listen to Adalind or anyone else. She doesn't have to and no one can do anything about it. What would someone do punish her.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - MarylikesGrimm - 12-13-2016
(12-13-2016, 06:18 AM)syscrash Wrote: She is now no different then Adalind or Eve. Both of them have seeked extreme revenge on people.Both Juliette and Adalind regret what they did. Juliette calls herself Eve the pain is so great. That is something we have not seen yet with Diana.
Quote:Why would Diana listen to Adalind or anyone else. She doesn't have to and no one can do anything about it. What would someone do punish her.My son had severe ADHD issues as a child and love and patience can go long way in fixing behavior issues. I never punished my child by physically hurting him.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - rpmaluki - 12-13-2016
(12-13-2016, 06:28 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: My son had severe ADHD issues as a child and love and patience can go long way in fixing behavior issues. I never punished my child by physically hurting him.Thank you, that's all I'm trying to say. Everyone wants to treat Diana like she's an object to be controlled instead of a child starved of love, affection and some understanding since Kelly died.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - syscrash - 12-13-2016
Quote:Thank you, that's all I'm trying to say. Everyone wants to treat Diana like she's an object to be controlled instead of a child starved of love, affection and some understanding since Kelly died.Diana is not someone to be controlled or influenced. She is also not a child that needs emotional support. Twice the people who where taking care of her where attacked. yet not one sign that it effected her or that she was even concerned.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - rpmaluki - 12-13-2016
It hasn't stopped people from wanting to use her for their end, that is a form of control.
Diana's lack of empathy is worrying and that is probably from neglect from people thinking they are merely babysitting her. Kelly wanted to mould her and thus had a plan and would have tried to stick as close to it as possible. But what about the other foster parents, did they try and do the same knowing how special she was or was enough to feed and clothe her. The fact that she's unfeeling to the point of letting people get killed when she could have done something is why she needs emotional support or else she'll grow up into a sociopath, heck, she is one already but with deadly powers.This is where Adalind is coming in, to try and undo the damage two years of "abandonment" have wrought on her warped mind, not trying would make her a horrible mother, something she's is determined to subvert because she was such a horrible person.