Quote:This is true of most Drama. The vast majority of arrests made in TV cop shows and movies would probably be thrown out before they ever made it to a trial.

(01-01-2017, 07:00 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(01-01-2017, 04:52 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: IMO laws in fantasy are want the writers want them to be at the time for the story needs. to get to the end point they want to tell. @New Guy link shows the Grimm tales were harsh and not PG rated.

I'll quote New Guy's post here:

Quote:The above article provides examples of Grimm's tales with themes that include "Premarital sex, Graphic violence, Child abuse, Anti-Semitism, Incest, and Wicked mothers." IMO, the frog girl's deadly touch is consistent with the writings of the Brothers Grimm. The two guys that wouldn't heed her warnings met a "grimm" end (hideous death).

So in your opinion, "laws in fantasy are want the writers want them to be at the time for the story needs."

New Guy lists as occurrences in Grimm's fairy tales are premarital sex, graphic violence, child abuse, Anti-Semitism, Incest and Wicked mothers.

How can you agree with New Guy then? These are fantasy stories. there is no premarital sex because that kind of thing doesn't exist in the world of Grimm's fairy tales. It's the same with child abuse, Anti-Semitism, and the rest. You can't even say graphic violence exists because how do you define graphic violence in a fairy tale setting? It's not defined and all you can compare it to is what we consider as graphic violence and the here and now, not in some Grimm fairytale.

I'll leave in wicked mothers because I do believe the Grimm brothers did often depict mothers as wicked.

As for the frog girl, in my opinion, there are laws in the Grimm series against murder. You can call it a fantasy, but the writers set up the parameters to show that murder is a crime. If it wasn't they wouldn't be sending Nick out to investigate the case for foul play. The girl ran away from her crime, which shows she's fully aware of what murder is and the penalty. Nick, as a cop, can arrest her for her crimes. He chose not to. I can go on and on, but this doesn't sound like a fantasy where no rules apply and anything's fair game. However, we view it the way we view it. I cannot change your definition of fantasy anymore than you can change mine. I can only point out that we can't use common terms to fairy tales where those terms do not apply.

Quote:Premarital sex
In the original version of “Rapunzel,” published in 1812, a prince impregnates the title character after the two spend many days together living in “joy and pleasure.” “Hans Dumm,” meanwhile, is about a man who impregnates a princess simply by wishing it, and in “The Frog King” a princess spends the night with her suitor once he turns into a handsome bachelor. The Grimms stripped the sex scenes from later versions of “Rapunzel” and “The Frog King” and eliminated “Hans Dumm” entirely.

But hidden sexual innuendos in “Grimm’s Fairy Tales” remained, according to psychoanalysts, including Sigmund Freud and Erich Fromm, who examined the book in the 20th century.

(01-02-2017, 06:35 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Iruk,
The article "The Dark Side of the Grimm Fairy Tales" at:
http://www.history.com/news/the-dark-side-of-the-grimm-fairy-tales
Provides multiple examples of of Grimm's tales with themes that include "Premarital sex, Graphic violence, Child abuse, Anti-Semitism, Incest, and Wicked mothers." You can click on the link and read them all. I'll show one and let you read the others:

Quote:Premarital sex
In the original version of “Rapunzel,” published in 1812, a prince impregnates the title character after the two spend many days together living in “joy and pleasure.” “Hans Dumm,” meanwhile, is about a man who impregnates a princess simply by wishing it, and in “The Frog King” a princess spends the night with her suitor once he turns into a handsome bachelor. The Grimms stripped the sex scenes from later versions of “Rapunzel” and “The Frog King” and eliminated “Hans Dumm” entirely.

But hidden sexual innuendos in “Grimm’s Fairy Tales” remained, according to psychoanalysts, including Sigmund Freud and Erich Fromm, who examined the book in the 20th century.

Enjoy!
N G

(01-02-2017, 09:22 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(01-02-2017, 06:35 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Iruk,
The article "The Dark Side of the Grimm Fairy Tales" at:
http://www.history.com/news/the-dark-side-of-the-grimm-fairy-tales
Provides multiple examples of of Grimm's tales with themes that include "Premarital sex, Graphic violence, Child abuse, Anti-Semitism, Incest, and Wicked mothers." You can click on the link and read them all. I'll show one and let you read the others:

Quote:Premarital sex
In the original version of “Rapunzel,” published in 1812, a prince impregnates the title character after the two spend many days together living in “joy and pleasure.” “Hans Dumm,” meanwhile, is about a man who impregnates a princess simply by wishing it, and in “The Frog King” a princess spends the night with her suitor once he turns into a handsome bachelor. The Grimms stripped the sex scenes from later versions of “Rapunzel” and “The Frog King” and eliminated “Hans Dumm” entirely.

But hidden sexual innuendos in “Grimm’s Fairy Tales” remained, according to psychoanalysts, including Sigmund Freud and Erich Fromm, who examined the book in the 20th century.

Enjoy!
N G

Hi New Guy-
I'm not arguing with you that the tales contain premarital sex. But that term, 'premarital sex', was not something that was a part of the tale. In the tale it's called something completely different, like joy and pleasure. What you are doing is looking at the activity and putting a modern term to it. They say it's joy and pleasure. You say it's premarital sex.

That's why the concept of 'it's a fantasy, anything goes' is not something I agree with. I've never seen anyone really fully explain what they mean by that. What I read from the poster is that he/she has done what we all do. In other words, they've put their own spin on the story. It may have something to do with what the writers are trying to show us, it might not. Since the bozos behind Grimm are really not all that forthcoming, I tend to think we all just put our own spin on it.

I had a friend who wrote a poem once about a bee and a flower. I have no idea where the poem was published, but she said she had all gotten kinds of theories about the poem from people who read it. People kept looking at the poem and tried to glean a reason from it. None of them were correct. It was simply a poem about a bee and a flower.

Have you ever watched a movie and the clues were right there in front of you and you completely missed them? The Sixth Sense was loaded with the color red. The director associated the color red with Cole, the little boy who sees ghosts. The color red has a lot of connotations. However, I cannot remember what the color was supposed to represent with regard to Cole. I just remember the director's commentary about it. I've watched that movie a thousand times and still miss most of the scenes that associate Cole with that color.

So you have a poem that means what it says and a movie that doesn't always mean what it says. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

(01-02-2017, 10:49 AM)New Guy Wrote: The article is not mine. It was written by Jesse Greenspan:
http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/author/jesse-greenspan
If you disagree with her findings, you may contact her, however it appears that her research into the topic is substantive.
N G

(01-26-2017, 05:53 PM)brandon Wrote: It seems that Nick likes the most that the woman takes the initiative.? As with Adalind and Juliette. I do not know if he would have liked the kiss of Ariel. What do you think.