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+--- Thread: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt (/Thread-Nicholas-Nick-Burkhardt)
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - Hell Rell - 12-25-2016
Nick didn't see Kelly as untrustworthy. They all helped because Nick was convinced by Kelly that Diana falling into the wrong hands would be a great danger some day. This was one of those events that could be classified as bigger than themselves. That's the reason Kelly decided to raise the child of the woman she just found out was a Hexenbiest and caused her son a large amount of pain and out his girlfriend into a coma. She was willing to die if need be in order to do it.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - irukandji - 12-25-2016
I never said Nick saw Kelly as untrustworthy. That doesn't excuse him from kidnapping and handing the child over to her, however.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - New Guy - 12-25-2016
(12-25-2016, 11:57 AM)irukandji Wrote: I never said Nick saw Kelly as untrustworthy. That doesn't excuse him from kidnapping and handing the child over to her, however.Hi Iruk,
Meisner was part of the mission to extract pregnant Adalind from the Royals. While on the run, Diana was born. Then Meisner handed them over to Kelly for delivery to Brazil. Kelly realized the Royals were on to the extraction plan and revised it to Portland. Kelly took them to Nick's house for temporary shelter. Renard became involved and set up a plan to fool Victor into believing the Resistance did the "kidnapping." Renard did not trust the Royals and smelled a rat in the Resistance. He did trust Kelly to hide Diana. All was well until Hexenette betrayed Kelly.
Yes, Nick participated in the "kidnapping" but so did Meisner, the Resistance, Renard, Nick, Kelly and Monroe.
In fact, Diana's own father was all in with Kelly providing safe haven from the Royals. Yet you present it as a criminal act that Nick devised.
As I recall, Kelly went to Renard's to kill him (if need be) and take Diana back. It was Nick who got Renard to buy in. IMO the writers presented the Diana extraction as Kelly and crew protecting a child from the demented King Frederick and his Verrat thugs.
Thanks to Hexenette's betrayal of Kelly, HW lost a powerful Grimm operative and the purple eyed killer (victims: guy in Europe while in womb, Rachel Wood and Conrad Bonaparte) is living with Daddy Renard in the Portland BC mansion. I do not recall anyone killed by Diana while in Kelly's care. Just sayin'.
N G
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - Robyn - 12-25-2016
Quote:The question has been asked will it be Eve or Adalind that is with Nick. The comments seem to make the choice relay on what Eve or Adalind want. How about from Nicks POV. With Eve he has a great partner. With Adalind she actively pursues him. The disadvantage. Eve lacks the expression of an emotional connection. Adalind lacks the ability to work with others.One sound like he’s looking for a wife the other sounds like he’s looking for a business partner. Nick may not be able to reconcile family with Grimm responsibilities, his mother couldn’t. Love isn’t necessary for Juliette/Eve/Evette/Cindy, whatever she’s going to call herself in S6, to be a partner in Nick’s Grimm duties. But love should be an important component in Nick’s decision to settle down and raise a family, whether it’s Adalind or Juliette/insert alias here.
IMO if Nick is going to continue to protect wesen then Eve is the best choice. If Nick is going to settle down then Adalind is the best choice. Season six will show he can not do both.
That said, Kelly recognized that Nick would be shortchanged if she stayed in his life because her Grimm duties would always come first and constantly bring danger to their door. I haven’t seen much about Nick that makes me believe he’s willing to put anyone’s wellbeing above what he wants. So he may very well chose to be a Grimm and raise his son with one of these women. And the nighttime soap continues.
Quote:The other thing that makes it hard to figure out who Eve will be. At the end of Season 5 in the tunnels Eve was not a usually arrogant self. She was held going into the tunnels yet she did not insist on taking on Conrad again to get revenge for his attack on her. The Eve we had come to know would not have hide in the tunnel.But by then Eve had stopped behaving like the Eve originally introduced. She was already bringing emotion into her decision process. I don’t think it’s likely the show plans to have the original Eve in S6. G & K have said it would be Eve with feelings. And Eve with feelings isn’t actually Eve. At best it’s some blend of Eve and Juliette. At worse, it’s just Juliette returning to the forefront.
Quote:I could be very wrong about what I am going to type next, so I am open to correction but my understanding from the first season that becoming a Grimm just comes on you, and for some reason I thought it was at the time of another Grimms impeding death...hence Aunt Marie's death by disease triggered Nick's latent Grimm...[quote]
I think this is how G&K originally planned it. Then later decided to drop it and pretend Marie didn’t tell Nick she suspected he was becoming a Grimm because she was near death.
[quote]You can not sight one example of Nick showing sociopathic tendencies. You can not be a sociopath and have a group of friend that are willing to die for you.
Quote:You're kidding, right? Jim Jones had a number of friends. Some of them took the koolaid right along with him. And if they didn't, he forced them to.Jim Jones is an excellent example. Jones’ followers were dedicated to what they believed he represented. Which isn’t that different than Nick’s ‘friends’. I have always thought these characters behaved more like cult members than friends rallying for a common cause, and haven’t seen anything that makes me believe they would be so actively involved with Nick if he wasn’t a Grimm. It’s not Nick they’re drawn to, it’s the Grimm and wanting to be a part of the Grimm world that compels them to be loyal servants.
Sociopaths can be charming, charismatic and enigmatic. But let's put it this way. Can you cite a time when Nick stated these were his friends? I can't so I am asking. Can you cite a time where any of them stated they were willing to die for him? I know they went off on a few adventures where death could have occurred, but I don't consider that the same as offering their lives for his.
Quote:Meisner was part of the mission to extract pregnant Adalind from the Royals. While on the run, Diana was born. Then Meisner handed them over to Kelly for delivery to Brazil. Kelly realized the Royals were on to the extraction plan and revised it to Portland. Kelly took them to Nick's house for temporary shelter. Renard became involved and set up a plan to fool Victor into believing the Resistance did the "kidnapping." Renard did not trust the Royals and smelled a rat in the Resistance. He did trust Kelly to hide Diana. All was well until Hexenette betrayed Kelly.This implies that only Grimms know what’s best for the world. Kelly was not open to any debate that included her not taking possession of the baby. Yes, Kelly thought any time spent talking to Renard was a waste because she didn’t care what he thought and was prepared to kill him or anyone else who got in her way. Renard’s part in this was protecting himself. Kelly pointed out to him that if she didn’t go on the run with Diana, he’d have to. Renard is not going to disrupt his life for anyone, even his child.
Yes, Nick participated in the "kidnapping" but so did Meisner, the Resistance, Renard, Nick, Kelly and Monroe.
In fact, Diana's own father was all in with Kelly providing safe haven from the Royals. Yet you present it as a criminal act that Nick devised.
As I recall, Kelly went to Renard's to kill him (if need be) and take Diana back. It was Nick who got Renard to buy in. IMO the writers presented the Diana extraction as Kelly and crew protecting a child from the demented King Frederick and his Verrat thugs.
Thanks to Hexenette's betrayal of Kelly, HW lost a powerful Grimm operative and the purple eyed killer (victims: guy in Europe while in womb, Rachel Wood and Conrad Bonaparte) is living with Daddy Renard in the Portland BC mansion. I do not recall anyone killed by Diana while in Kelly's care. Just sayin'.
The reality of this fiasco is that it was ultimately a fiasco. Kelly was adamant that only she could protect Diana. She failed miserably. All the reasons Kelly gave for her taking the baby have come to fruition. The Royals launched a deadly assault on Portland and would have taken Diana if not for Resistance. Even with the Resistance’s intervention, BC took Diana, and would still have her if Diana hadn’t killed their Portland leader. In the end, Diana saved herself, not Kelly, not any Grimm. In fact, Diana saved Nick, the Grimm. So really, could Adalind & Diana had done any worse on their own?
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - syscrash - 12-26-2016
Quote:That said, Kelly recognized that Nick would be shortchanged if she stayed in his life because her Grimm duties would always come first and constantly bring danger to their door. I haven’t seen much about Nick that makes me believe he’s willing to put anyone’s wellbeing above what he wants. So he may very well chose to be a Grimm and raise his son with one of these women. And the nighttime soap continues.It was not kelly's grimm duties that where the problem. Kelly had a price on her head. That meant she would always be on the run. That is why Nick dad and Kelly's friend where killed. And the friend was beheaded because they thought she was a Grimm. It is one thing to have wesen not like you like because of your past like Aunt Mari. It is another to have a price on your head. A price bring out the bounty hunters and will get anyone close to you killed.
Quote:Kelly pointed out to him that if she didn’t go on the run with Diana, he’d have to. Renard is not going to disrupt his life for anyone, even his child.
That is magnanimous point of view but not realistic. Sean is a Royal and a police captain. Not someone that would go on the run. You also have to remember Diana is not a child is asked for and if things had not gone bad he would have never even known about. But then that is the same with Kelly. Nick would have never known had things not gone bad. Sean asked Kelly was she willing to risk her life for his child she said yes. So why would he not let her be the one to go on the run. She is the one with experience on hide to hide. This is like the people who feel Adalind should have went with them. From what we have seen. Can you imagine Adalind being on the run. She could not even handle being on the run when she left Vienna.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - Kwu9888 - 12-26-2016
In my humble opinion I see the main difference between Kelly being unable to keep her family together and protected and Nick,Kelly, and Adalind being a family together and protected is partially because Nick is a Grimm, Adalind is a hexenbiest, Kelly is either a mixture of both parents or just a Grimm or just a hexenbiest or zauberbiest if you will so no matter which of all of the above mentioned possiblities come to fruition the family in a whole or separately seem to be very able to take of themselves unlike Nicks family at the time his mother left him. Plus we must include the half sister Diana and all the aunts and uncles-Wu, Eve/Juliette who herself promised Nick to do everything in her power to protect Kelly, Monroe, Rosalie, Troubel, Hank etc.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - syscrash - 12-26-2016
I see where you going with Nick having a partner that is a hexenbiest should make it so she can protect her self. So unlike Juliette who was constantly becoming a victim. Here is the problem, Adalind does not do well in protecting herself. Viktor threw Adalind in the dungeon. Sean kidnapped her. Conrad imprisoned her at the mansion. Don't forget Juliette beat the crap out of her. Nick beat her up and took her powers. All of this while she was a hexenbiest with powers.
Juliette and Eve would do a lot better at being able to protect her self. She did really well in wesenrein. She stopped the manticore. Adalind won't be trying to challenge her anytime soon. She totally dominated the spice shop. The only fight she lost was when Trubel shot her.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - brandon - 12-26-2016
I think he like Juliette because it was the marriage of his parents.why do not they differ also understand.it is a if a deaf man said that only a deaf man would understand. It is discrimination or prejudice who says so. Juliette acted like this
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - Kwu9888 - 12-26-2016
(12-26-2016, 08:10 AM)syscrash Wrote: I see where you going with Nick having a partner that is a hexenbiest should make it so she can protect her self. So unlike Juliette who was constantly becoming a victim. Here is the problem, Adalind does not do well in protecting herself. Viktor threw Adalind in the dungeon. Sean kidnapped her. Conrad imprisoned her at the mansion. Don't forget Juliette beat the crap out of her. Nick beat her up and took her powers. All of this while she was a hexenbiest with powers.
Juliette and Eve would do a lot better at being able to protect her self. She did really well in wesenrein. She stopped the manticore. Adalind won't be trying to challenge her anytime soon. She totally dominated the spice shop. The only fight she lost was when Trubel shot her.
I see what you are saying also but it seems to me a lot of the time she was overcome against an opponent had to do with protecting her children. When Sean kidnapped her she was still barely a hexenbiest, and Conrad was able to take down Eve down so don't think Adalind would have been much of a challenge plus again she was thinking of her children. Victor totally tricked her because all she was thinking was her baby. Now when Nick took her powers away she was not in full form which is why he could kiss her lips so she would bite him. As far as Eve/Juliette being able to protect herself I agree she is much stronger but let us not forget she is risking nothing but her life she has no children and as of now no lover or lovers or really anyone she has feelings for, yet anyway, it is much easier to fight when you having nothing to lose. But as usual thanks for making me think and analyze more
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt - irukandji - 12-26-2016
(12-25-2016, 04:10 PM)Robyn Wrote:Quote:Syscrash wrote:
You can not sight one example of Nick showing sociopathic tendencies. You can not be a sociopath and have a group of friend that are willing to die for you.Quote:You're kidding, right? Jim Jones had a number of friends. Some of them took the koolaid right along with him. And if they didn't, he forced them to.
Irukandji wrote:
Sociopaths can be charming, charismatic and enigmatic. But let's put it this way. Can you cite a time when Nick stated these were his friends? I can't so I am asking. Can you cite a time where any of them stated they were willing to die for him? I know they went off on a few adventures where death could have occurred, but I don't consider that the same as offering their lives for his.
Jim Jones is an excellent example. Jones’ followers were dedicated to what they believed he represented. Which isn’t that different than Nick’s ‘friends’. I have always thought these characters behaved more like cult members than friends rallying for a common cause, and haven’t seen anything that makes me believe they would be so actively involved with Nick if he wasn’t a Grimm. It’s not Nick they’re drawn to, it’s the Grimm and wanting to be a part of the Grimm world that compels them to be loyal servants.
We have Nick the sociopath and Eve and Adalind, the hexenbiests. In terms of manipulation, how do you think Nick uses his sociopathic tendencies to manipulate Adalind? How did she use her hexenbiest attributes to manipulate him?