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+--- Thread: How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? (/Thread-How-will-Renard-implement-a-wesen-take-over-without-BC)
How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? - speakeasy - 06-28-2016
How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC?
First time I opened a new thread; put it in the wrong place, shouldn't be an episode discussion. 'Cuse, please, so happy.
Cheese and crackers. This belongs in General Discussions.
RE: How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? - Kathryn Wooten - 06-28-2016
I assume Sean knows something about Conrad's plan..and agree to some of the plans...,,right now to much going on to put the plan in full gear..now whether Sean can put the genie back in the bottle will be tricky or hard to do.BC had put these plans in motion wayyyy before Sean got on board...so it will take at least that long to put the cork back on the bottle....sadly I think that ship has sailed and the new world is coming..Remember what Sean warn Nick..when he tried to recruit him ..if Nick is not in it ( what is happening with BC is going to happen with or without them
RE: How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? - speakeasy - 06-28-2016
(06-28-2016, 03:58 PM)Kathryn Wooten Wrote: I assume Sean knows something about Conrad's plan..and agree to some of the plans...,,right now to much going on to put the plan in full gear..now whether Sean can put the genie back in the bottle will be tricky or hard to do.BC had put these plans in motion wayyyy before Sean got on board...so it will take at least that long to put the cork back on the bottle....sadly I think that ship has sailed and the new world is coming..Remember what Sean warn Nick..when he tried to recruit him ..if Nick is not in it ( what is happening with BC is going to happen with or without them
All true, but the idea of a wesen-controlled Portland won't work. They simply don't have the numbers. Unless BC and the global movement is included in the final season, and from all I've heard it is not.
It could be that Portland has a larger percentage of wesen than kehrseite, then it could get done. But all through the series I've always taken it for granted that kehrseite, or the regular human population, had the vast numerical advantage.
And there is no way we could stretch the fiction to include an accepting kehrseite community; there would be blood in the streets. The central idea behind wesen keeping their real selves secret has always been the inability of most kehrseite to comprehend them; many lose their sanity in trying to cope. Monroe said.
Maybe Renard's plan is to keep things undercover like always, but to install wesen in every position of authority and run the city that way. The concept of a revealed wesen city is an impossibility to me.
RE: How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? - Robyn - 06-28-2016
I never got the impression Renard was interested in a Wesen ruled world. Renard wanted what BC promised - to be the most powerful man in Portland. A Wesen ruled world was Renard accepting the company line and working to achieve BC’s goal because it got him what he wanted - power, and ultimately a path to more power. With Bonaparte dead, I don’t see Renard continuing the Wesen revolution, other than maintaining the loyalty of Wesen he needs to protect his interests.
I think by the time Renard met with Nick, he knew he’d made a mistake, instead of a powerful man he was simply BC’s front man, but was in too deep to get out and didn’t have a choice other than try to recruit Nick or at least convince him they should work together to keep violence and deaths to a minimum. After Meisner’s death, Renard realized that violence and death would be the new norm under BC/Bonaparte’s rule.
Bonaparte is the first man or Wesen I recall Renard fearing or submitting to. I think if he’d known more about the inner workings of the organization, specifically Bonaparte, he might have taken a different approach dealing with BC and their offer.
Grimm doesn’t worry about tying up loose ends or dropping a storyline moving into a new season. So I doubt there’ll be much BC resurgence for Renard or Team Grimm to deal with. And S6 will be Renard wielding the power and authority Bonaparte’s death provided.
RE: How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? - speakeasy - 06-28-2016
(06-28-2016, 06:19 PM)Robyn Wrote: I never got the impression Renard was interested in a Wesen ruled world. Renard wanted what BC promised - to be the most powerful man in Portland. A Wesen ruled world was Renard accepting the company line and working to achieve BC’s goal because it got him what he wanted - power, and ultimately a path to more power. With Bonaparte dead, I don’t see Renard continuing the Wesen revolution, other than maintaining the loyalty of Wesen he needs to protect his interests.
I think by the time Renard met with Nick, he knew he’d made a mistake, instead of a powerful man he was simply BC’s front man, but was in too deep to get out and didn’t have a choice other than try to recruit Nick or at least convince him they should work together to keep violence and deaths to a minimum. After Meisner’s death, Renard realized that violence and death would be the new norm under BC/Bonaparte’s rule.
Bonaparte is the first man or Wesen I recall Renard fearing or submitting to. I think if he’d known more about the inner workings of the organization, specifically Bonaparte, he might have taken a different approach dealing with BC and their offer.
Grimm doesn’t worry about tying up loose ends or dropping a storyline moving into a new season. So I doubt there’ll be much BC resurgence for Renard or Team Grimm to deal with. And S6 will be Renard wielding the power and authority Bonaparte’s death provided.
Excellent analysis, Robyn. Renard does go out of his way to tell Hank and Wu they are good officers in the last episode and reaches out to them to work with him; even though they are definitely not with him at that point. But it showed he was thinking ahead. And showed he is willing to fit non-wesen into his plan.
But, looks like he will be attempting to place wesen in key positions. His replacement for Captain, for example. Although it's still speculation now, the smart money seems to be on Lucien being made Captain of Sean's precinct. Lucien, the architect of the plan to place the keys to the city in Renard's hand. Lucien, who will still have ties to BC. Unless somehow the writers will arrange to have him also leave the organization and team up with Sean to take over the city. Portland must be a very prosperous city and valuable enough to please even the most ambitious of men, so it's very plausible.
I've been struggling with how Renard planned to gain complete control in Portland based on a wesen leadership. But maybe I missed the true meaning of his plans to grab power.
As persuasive as your position is, I still have questions about how wesen power fits in all this. However, if Sean isn't interested in furthering the wesen uprising and cause, then it's a moot question! You're may be on to something.
RE: How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? - jsgrimm45 - 06-29-2016
Don't see Renard keeping to the BC plan, do see him using Lucian as Chief or the Station captain. Renard isn't likely to keep the BC plan in place for the reasons, BC personnel between Eve and Nick has to be low so to keep "the plan" in play would be a race between HW and BC.
Would think that the Portland area BC wesen my now face problems for the non BC wesen now that the fear factor has been reduced. So Renard will likely go back to season one and try the crime lord is was (from what we were told) angle he was to have in season one. He will use wesen left from BC as his enforcers. His plan will be weath not wesen rule. He may even attack the royals with his wesen contacts bring back the royal connection in and ending the series with him out of Portland back in the royal families.
If and we have to believe we may be mislead Nick is the Fugitive that in a way puts Renard at a disadvantage if Nick were where he had control and could keep an eye on him if he isn't than Nick has the upper hand. Why would I say that because Nick has very good contacts in the wesen world, plus they have no case against Monroe or Rosalee so they are in the clear and can help.
Now Nick would have to stay in the shallows to work against Renard and the last of BC with Trubel, We know his mom did very well for years so I don't see that as big problem. Tunnels make a very good hideout to work from.
When you add in Eve and Trubel now some help from Adalind/ Diana Nick could keep Renard off pace to do much. Plus I'm one who thinks Renard fears Nick.
Now what would happen in Portland if Josh is now a Grimm and he returned or what if Alexander shows up? A Grimm and a wesen unknown to Renard?
RE: How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? - speakeasy - 06-29-2016
(06-29-2016, 05:44 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Don't see Renard keeping to the BC plan, do see him using Lucian as Chief or the Station captain. Renard isn't likely to keep the BC plan in place for the reasons, BC personnel between Eve and Nick has to be low so to keep "the plan" in play would be a race between HW and BC.
This is a well thought-out argument for Renard to sideline the wesen uprising entirely.
Don't see how, at this point, he avoids choosing Lucien for Captain - but that has its problems. For public purposes Renard may have to maintain the happy, shiny family image with Adalind, Diana, and Kelly. That's gonna put Lucien and Renard directly in conflict with Nick. Lucien is an assassin; i.e., Andrew Dixon, etc. He may widen the divide between Sean and Nick by his underhanded tactics.
Plus, Renard will have to provide a reason for former BC wesen to join his ranks. That means to me that he will have to make promises about the wesen reveal; what else can he bargain with, his winning personality, haha?
(06-29-2016, 05:44 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Would think that the Portland area BC wesen my now face problems for the non BC wesen now that the fear factor has been reduced. So Renard will likely go back to season one and try the crime lord is was (from what we were told) angle he was to have in season one. He will use wesen left from BC as his enforcers. His plan will be weath not wesen rule. He may even attack the royals with his wesen contacts bring back the royal connection in and ending the series with him out of Portland back in the royal families.
That would be good for Portland, even though the citizenry would have to bring in someone to clean up the corruption left behind: enter Nick and crew.
(06-29-2016, 05:44 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: If and we have to believe we may be mislead Nick is the Fugitive that in a way puts Renard at a disadvantage if Nick were where he had control and could keep an eye on him if he isn't than Nick has the upper hand. Why would I say that because Nick has very good contacts in the wesen world, plus they have no case against Monroe or Rosalee so they are in the clear and can help.
Exactly, and Renard may not be able to draw Nick to his side. Not with his public display of being a family man. He'll have to get Adalind to go along by convincing her it's best for the children - that ring will help him there.
I'm trying to figure how the two men can work together and it seems unlikely. You're right on the money when you refer to Nick's contacts within the wesen community; in fact, he may have as many wesen on his side as does Sean. It's the torn loyalties and dangers that may decide where characters like Adalind and Diana stand. And therein lies the problem for Nick and Sean.
(06-29-2016, 05:44 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Now Nick would have to stay in the shallows to work against Renard and the last of BC with Trubel, We know his mom did very well for years so I don't see that as big problem. Tunnels make a very good hideout to work from.
Now you're talking my language! Guerrilla town. I've got to stop promoting an idea that isn't practical, but it's hard to quit.
(06-29-2016, 05:44 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Now what would happen in Portland if Josh is now a Grimm and he returned or what if Alexander shows up? A Grimm and a wesen unknown to Renard?
Plus an unknown hideout from which to launch attacks, or just keep away from the grip of the Renard forces.
Think my worry about the possibility of a Portland facing daily encounters with folks in their wesen form, egad, has been put to rest, but I still am not 100% convinced it won't become a problem.
RE: How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? - Hexenadler - 06-29-2016
Someone offered the idea of Hank becoming captain, but I don't see how that could happen. Hank wouldn't want to work under Renard's thumb any more than Nick, especially after the events of S5.
RE: How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? - speakeasy - 06-29-2016
(06-29-2016, 09:02 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: Someone offered the idea of Hank becoming captain, but I don't see how that could happen. Hank wouldn't want to work under Renard's thumb any more than Nick, especially after the events of S5.
Forgot about that. Hank's better off sticking close to Nick. Got the feeling they all may have to keep very low profiles at first, at least. Renard could believe he had the loyalty of Hank after what he has done, but it would be because in his world view, changing alliances are part of life. But Hank is not like that, he's far less scheming. I'd throw in with him any day compared with working along side the Machiavellian Renard, even though Sean is still my favorite. But Hank's my sentimental favorite and a better man, imo, so's Nick.
RE: How will Renard implement a wesen take-over without BC? - syscrash - 06-29-2016
In all of the comments there seems to be a confusion as to what HW or BC is fighting for. The idea of take over, what does that mean. The problem was being exposed as wesen would get you killed by the council. Even now being found out to be wesen would get you removed from what every position you had and more then likely subjected to experimentation.
BC's plan is to no longer hide. Any objection would be meet with violence. Sean's will take a don't ask don't tell position. His problem will be controlling conflicts. An angry mob can only exist if the mod is in control. NOw that Sean can control the official narrative. Those that fear wesen and would make up the angry mod. Can be eliminated with a story that paints them as the criminal. The same thing Sean has been doing but on a larger scale. Where Sean was only raising doubt before. Now there will be full blown cover ups. The show will use company take overs to show this dynamic instead of social unrest.