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(05-28-2014, 12:24 PM)Belle Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, interesting, you see the show completely differently than I do. I saw Nick as trying to protect Juliette and think any woman who turns down a proposal should have a much better reason than she did. At the very least I think she should break things off with him, so he can move on with his life, especially if his being a grimm is such a problem for her.

Sorry, but I am still looking forward to the episode where they kill her off in some nasty way and Nick gets to move on and date someone good. I agree with the post which said Nick has more chemistry with Monroe than Juliette.

I agree Nick was -- in part -- trying to protect Juliette. The problem is that Juliette isn't a child Nick is responsible for. She's an adult in a relationship of equals, and Nick had no right to deny her that information, however justified he felt he was, or how good he thought his intentions were. One person doesn't get to decide to what's best for another person in a relationship. And then there was also the part of Nick that held back from telling juliette the truth out of fear of losing her. And while I can understand that fear, and how hard it would be to have that conversation, Nick held on to his secrets way too long -- past the point where they were getting her hurt, and where she actually begged him for the truth. I agree someone was being strung along, and someone was being selfish and needy, but I feel very differently about who was which.

I feel exactly the opposite about Juliette refusing the proposal -- if she'd accepted, I would have thought she was a fool. Getting engaged to someone when you know in your gut something's going on and there's something you're not being told is about as terrible a choice as you can make, and a recipe for a bad ending. If Nick wanted her to commit to him, he owed her the truth. And she was tremendously understanding about him not being able to give it to her -- there was no ultimatum, no pushing him into telling her before he was ready. She loved him and was willing was to wait for him to come to terms with things, but she had enough respect for herself and for their relationship to refuse to make a commitment when something was wrong.

Juliette has only just now voiced her frustration over the very real hardships Nick's calling has introduced into her life. She's had her home broken into multiple times, she's been kidnapped, she's been poisoned, she's had her memory stolen, she's been the victim of magic that almost got her raped, she's had the person responsible for that magic dropped on her doorstep for safekeeping, she's had a complete stranger whose history includes being an unstable thief brought to her house to stay indefinitely without so much as a heads up phone call, and now she's had someone wear her face to ambush her partner. And now -- only now -- does she reach the point where she feels it might be too much to handle. She has been beyond patient, beyond gracious, beyond sympathetic, and beyond understanding.
(05-28-2014, 03:48 PM)virgo79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2014, 12:24 PM)Belle Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, interesting, you see the show completely differently than I do. I saw Nick as trying to protect Juliette and think any woman who turns down a proposal should have a much better reason than she did. At the very least I think she should break things off with him, so he can move on with his life, especially if his being a grimm is such a problem for her.

Sorry, but I am still looking forward to the episode where they kill her off in some nasty way and Nick gets to move on and date someone good. I agree with the post which said Nick has more chemistry with Monroe than Juliette.

I agree Nick was -- in part -- trying to protect Juliette. The problem is that Juliette isn't a child Nick is responsible for. She's an adult in a relationship of equals, and Nick had no right to deny her that information, however justified he felt he was, or how good he thought his intentions were. One person doesn't get to decide to what's best for another person in a relationship. And then there was also the part of Nick that held back from telling juliette the truth out of fear of losing her. And while I can understand that fear, and how hard it would be to have that conversation, Nick held on to his secrets way too long -- past the point where they were getting her hurt, and where she actually begged him for the truth. I agree someone was being strung along, and someone was being selfish and needy, but I feel very differently about who was which.

I feel exactly the opposite about Juliette refusing the proposal -- if she'd accepted, I would have thought she was a fool. Getting engaged to someone when you know in your gut something's going on and there's something you're not being told is about as terrible a choice as you can make, and a recipe for a bad ending. If Nick wanted her to commit to him, he owed her the truth. And she was tremendously understanding about him not being able to give it to her -- there was no ultimatum, no pushing him into telling her before he was ready. She loved him and was willing was to wait for him to come to terms with things, but she had enough respect for herself and for their relationship to refuse to make a commitment when something was wrong.

Juliette has only just now voiced her frustration over the very real hardships Nick's calling has introduced into her life. She's had her home broken into multiple times, she's been kidnapped, she's been poisoned, she's had her memory stolen, she's been the victim of magic that almost got her raped, she's had the person responsible for that magic dropped on her doorstep for safekeeping, she's had a complete stranger whose history includes being an unstable thief brought to her house to stay indefinitely without so much as a heads up phone call, and now she's had someone wear her face to ambush her partner. And now -- only now -- does she reach the point where she feels it might be too much to handle. She has been beyond patient, beyond gracious, beyond sympathetic, and beyond understanding.

(05-28-2014, 04:49 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2014, 03:48 PM)virgo79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2014, 12:24 PM)Belle Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, interesting, you see the show completely differently than I do. I saw Nick as trying to protect Juliette and think any woman who turns down a proposal should have a much better reason than she did. At the very least I think she should break things off with him, so he can move on with his life, especially if his being a grimm is such a problem for her.

Sorry, but I am still looking forward to the episode where they kill her off in some nasty way and Nick gets to move on and date someone good. I agree with the post which said Nick has more chemistry with Monroe than Juliette.

I agree Nick was -- in part -- trying to protect Juliette. The problem is that Juliette isn't a child Nick is responsible for. She's an adult in a relationship of equals, and Nick had no right to deny her that information, however justified he felt he was, or how good he thought his intentions were. One person doesn't get to decide to what's best for another person in a relationship. And then there was also the part of Nick that held back from telling juliette the truth out of fear of losing her. And while I can understand that fear, and how hard it would be to have that conversation, Nick held on to his secrets way too long -- past the point where they were getting her hurt, and where she actually begged him for the truth. I agree someone was being strung along, and someone was being selfish and needy, but I feel very differently about who was which.

I feel exactly the opposite about Juliette refusing the proposal -- if she'd accepted, I would have thought she was a fool. Getting engaged to someone when you know in your gut something's going on and there's something you're not being told is about as terrible a choice as you can make, and a recipe for a bad ending. If Nick wanted her to commit to him, he owed her the truth. And she was tremendously understanding about him not being able to give it to her -- there was no ultimatum, no pushing him into telling her before he was ready. She loved him and was willing was to wait for him to come to terms with things, but she had enough respect for herself and for their relationship to refuse to make a commitment when something was wrong.

Juliette has only just now voiced her frustration over the very real hardships Nick's calling has introduced into her life. She's had her home broken into multiple times, she's been kidnapped, she's been poisoned, she's had her memory stolen, she's been the victim of magic that almost got her raped, she's had the person responsible for that magic dropped on her doorstep for safekeeping, she's had a complete stranger whose history includes being an unstable thief brought to her house to stay indefinitely without so much as a heads up phone call, and now she's had someone wear her face to ambush her partner. And now -- only now -- does she reach the point where she feels it might be too much to handle. She has been beyond patient, beyond gracious, beyond sympathetic, and beyond understanding.

I think you are missing some important parts of the storyline. Nick tried to tell her the truth once and she treated him like a lunatic, and that's when she remembered who he was!

He was going to tell her when she couldn't even remember his face? Juliette would have run from him like he was a lunatic! He told her as soon as it was reasonably possible.

I agree she has been through a lot because of him being a grimm, but she needs to either sign on for the gig or end it and let them both go their own way in life.
Damn skippy! You are right on the money. Big Grin
I agree. She now knows what she is in for, and if she honestly believes that she isn't up to it, she should tell Nick so and break it off. On the other hand, if she cares enough for Nick that she's willing to put up with being a Grimm's spouse/partner an all it entails--not to mention what a police officer's spouse must endure--then she should put on her big-girl's panties and deal with it. One or the other.
(05-28-2014, 04:49 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2014, 03:48 PM)virgo79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2014, 12:24 PM)Belle Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, interesting, you see the show completely differently than I do. I saw Nick as trying to protect Juliette and think any woman who turns down a proposal should have a much better reason than she did. At the very least I think she should break things off with him, so he can move on with his life, especially if his being a grimm is such a problem for her.

Sorry, but I am still looking forward to the episode where they kill her off in some nasty way and Nick gets to move on and date someone good. I agree with the post which said Nick has more chemistry with Monroe than Juliette.

I agree Nick was -- in part -- trying to protect Juliette. The problem is that Juliette isn't a child Nick is responsible for. She's an adult in a relationship of equals, and Nick had no right to deny her that information, however justified he felt he was, or how good he thought his intentions were. One person doesn't get to decide to what's best for another person in a relationship. And then there was also the part of Nick that held back from telling juliette the truth out of fear of losing her. And while I can understand that fear, and how hard it would be to have that conversation, Nick held on to his secrets way too long -- past the point where they were getting her hurt, and where she actually begged him for the truth. I agree someone was being strung along, and someone was being selfish and needy, but I feel very differently about who was which.

I feel exactly the opposite about Juliette refusing the proposal -- if she'd accepted, I would have thought she was a fool. Getting engaged to someone when you know in your gut something's going on and there's something you're not being told is about as terrible a choice as you can make, and a recipe for a bad ending. If Nick wanted her to commit to him, he owed her the truth. And she was tremendously understanding about him not being able to give it to her -- there was no ultimatum, no pushing him into telling her before he was ready. She loved him and was willing was to wait for him to come to terms with things, but she had enough respect for herself and for their relationship to refuse to make a commitment when something was wrong.

Juliette has only just now voiced her frustration over the very real hardships Nick's calling has introduced into her life. She's had her home broken into multiple times, she's been kidnapped, she's been poisoned, she's had her memory stolen, she's been the victim of magic that almost got her raped, she's had the person responsible for that magic dropped on her doorstep for safekeeping, she's had a complete stranger whose history includes being an unstable thief brought to her house to stay indefinitely without so much as a heads up phone call, and now she's had someone wear her face to ambush her partner. And now -- only now -- does she reach the point where she feels it might be too much to handle. She has been beyond patient, beyond gracious, beyond sympathetic, and beyond understanding.

(05-28-2014, 04:49 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2014, 03:48 PM)virgo79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2014, 12:24 PM)Belle Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, interesting, you see the show completely differently than I do. I saw Nick as trying to protect Juliette and think any woman who turns down a proposal should have a much better reason than she did. At the very least I think she should break things off with him, so he can move on with his life, especially if his being a grimm is such a problem for her.

Sorry, but I am still looking forward to the episode where they kill her off in some nasty way and Nick gets to move on and date someone good. I agree with the post which said Nick has more chemistry with Monroe than Juliette.

I agree Nick was -- in part -- trying to protect Juliette. The problem is that Juliette isn't a child Nick is responsible for. She's an adult in a relationship of equals, and Nick had no right to deny her that information, however justified he felt he was, or how good he thought his intentions were. One person doesn't get to decide to what's best for another person in a relationship. And then there was also the part of Nick that held back from telling juliette the truth out of fear of losing her. And while I can understand that fear, and how hard it would be to have that conversation, Nick held on to his secrets way too long -- past the point where they were getting her hurt, and where she actually begged him for the truth. I agree someone was being strung along, and someone was being selfish and needy, but I feel very differently about who was which.

I feel exactly the opposite about Juliette refusing the proposal -- if she'd accepted, I would have thought she was a fool. Getting engaged to someone when you know in your gut something's going on and there's something you're not being told is about as terrible a choice as you can make, and a recipe for a bad ending. If Nick wanted her to commit to him, he owed her the truth. And she was tremendously understanding about him not being able to give it to her -- there was no ultimatum, no pushing him into telling her before he was ready. She loved him and was willing was to wait for him to come to terms with things, but she had enough respect for herself and for their relationship to refuse to make a commitment when something was wrong.

Juliette has only just now voiced her frustration over the very real hardships Nick's calling has introduced into her life. She's had her home broken into multiple times, she's been kidnapped, she's been poisoned, she's had her memory stolen, she's been the victim of magic that almost got her raped, she's had the person responsible for that magic dropped on her doorstep for safekeeping, she's had a complete stranger whose history includes being an unstable thief brought to her house to stay indefinitely without so much as a heads up phone call, and now she's had someone wear her face to ambush her partner. And now -- only now -- does she reach the point where she feels it might be too much to handle. She has been beyond patient, beyond gracious, beyond sympathetic, and beyond understanding.

I think you are missing some important parts of the storyline. Nick tried to tell her the truth once and she treated him like a lunatic, and that's when she remembered who he was!

He was going to tell her when she couldn't even remember his face? Juliette would have run from him like he was a lunatic! He told her as soon as it was reasonably possible.

I agree she has been through a lot because of him being a grimm, but she needs to either sign on for the gig or end it and let them both go their own way in life.

I didn't miss anything. I've been following their story since day one. Juliette didn't treat him like a lunatic. She treated him like a person who was displaying symptoms of having a problem, and she did that because he was acting manic and disconnected. I knew he was telling the truth, and I still cringed at his demeanor in that scene. (One of my favorite scenes in the whole show, btw -- the two of them broke my heart in that one.)

Juliette had every reason to think that Nick could have been suffering a breakdown. The woman he thought of as a mother had died -- violently -- and Nick had been having a hard time with it. She had seen a personality change in him; he became closed off -- which is a massive, massive red flag to some very serious problems. Plus, he works in a dangerous, high-stress, and emotionally demanding job. Take any one of those and combine it with Nick's demeanor in the trailer scene, and it's understandable that Juliette would think what she did. Combine all of them, and I don't see how it's possible she would have thought anything but that Nick was unwell.

The kicker is that Nick had the perfect opportunity the week before to open up about things, when Juliette came to him with her own "you might think I'm crazy" disclaimer and her thoughts on the DNA found on the horse. Nick couldn't have asked for more of an opportune moment than that.

Ultimately, Nick's choices created the situation that brought on Juliette's reaction in the finale. He kept secrets from her, he waited months to tell her the truth, his silence left her uninformed and vulnerable to Adalind, and he only spilled when he did because his hand was forced and the situation was life and death. Then it all spilled out of him when he was panicked and not in control of himself or the situation. Nick had plenty of time to have this talk with Juliette. He put it off because he was afraid.
So because Juliette is in this awkward situation, is it possible that she will break up with Nick permanently and be written off the show? Or just made into the occasionally recurring character, like Bud the Eisbiber or Kelly Burkhardt?
Not sure what will become of Juliette, but someone started an online petition on another site to have the character killed off.
And I started a thread asking people how they would get rid of her. Tee Hee Big Grin
Sorry, but she is my absolute least favorite character on the show.
(05-29-2014, 02:42 PM)Belle Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure what will become of Juliette, but someone started an online petition on another site to have the character killed off.
And I started a thread asking people how they would get rid of her. Tee Hee Big Grin
Sorry, but she is my absolute least favorite character on the show.

As I've said elsewhere in this forum, I just don't see how Juliette is going to be able to get past Nick sleeping with Adalind. And I think the final nail is going to be a dramatic scene where Nick is presented the possibility of getting his Grimm powers back, and Juliette will basically say, "It's either being a Grimm, or being with me. One or the other." I don't want Juliette to be killed off, but I will be surprised if she is one of the main characters after this season. At best, I see her as a recurring character, just like Bud or Kelly.
(05-29-2014, 06:27 PM)Berkilak de Hautdesert Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-29-2014, 02:42 PM)Belle Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure what will become of Juliette, but someone started an online petition on another site to have the character killed off.
And I started a thread asking people how they would get rid of her. Tee Hee Big Grin
Sorry, but she is my absolute least favorite character on the show.

As I've said elsewhere in this forum, I just don't see how Juliette is going to be able to get past Nick sleeping with Adalind. And I think the final nail is going to be a dramatic scene where Nick is presented the possibility of getting his Grimm powers back, and Juliette will basically say, "It's either being a Grimm, or being with me. One or the other." I don't want Juliette to be killed off, but I will be surprised if she is one of the main characters after this season. At best, I see her as a recurring character, just like Bud or Kelly.

That kind of ultimatum isn't really Juliette's M.O., though. I could believe she might decide a Grimm's life isn't for her, but not thrusting an either/or situation on Nick. I think she would respect his choice to get his powers back, and if she left, the choice would be hers.

Wherever they end up, I don't see the Nick/Adalind thing being the deciding factor, though. That wasn't infidelity. I would personally define it as rape, though I suspect the show probably won't. I think it will be played as deception, and nothing more loaded than that.

Honestly, though, I think Juliette's venting about everything Nick's Grimmness has thrown at them has probably served the only purpose it was ever intended for: amping up the melodrama of the loss of his powers. They had several foreshadow-y moments like that in the finale; another was the blathering on with Theresa about whether Nick would choose to be a Grimm, if it were a choice. This show moved away from character-motivated arcs to plot-driven twists and turns in season 2, and moments like these never seem to resonate for very long. They're included to get us to the next plot twist, and then they're let go. I would be very surprised if there's any kind of storyline that focuses on JUliette's frustrations here. I don't even know how much time I believe they'll spend on Nick wrestling with whether or not he wants to be a Grimm again. External conflicts get a lot more attention than internal ones on this show.
(05-30-2014, 09:18 AM)virgo79 Wrote: [ -> ]That kind of ultimatum isn't really Juliette's M.O., though. I could believe she might decide a Grimm's life isn't for her, but not thrusting an either/or situation on Nick. I think she would respect his choice to get his powers back, and if she left, the choice would be hers.

Wherever they end up, I don't see the Nick/Adalind thing being the deciding factor, though. That wasn't infidelity. I would personally define it as rape, though I suspect the show probably won't. I think it will be played as deception, and nothing more loaded than that.

It isn't Juliette's usual modus operandi, the ultimatum, that is. But everyone has their breaking point, and by her reaction in the car, you can see Juliette has reached hers. And if you can sit back logically and look at a situation, you can say, "Yes, you were tricked, I know you would have been faithful if you knew all the facts." But that's a reaction on a logical basis. You could see in the car that Juliette was reacting to it in an emotional basis, and emotion does not often rely on the facts. What I believe will happen is that Juliette will be calm and supportive with Nick having lost his Grimm sight (and possibly his Zombie powers?), but that's going to be a false front. As soon as the possibility of Nick getting his Grimmness back, that false front is going to vanish immediately, and all the slights that Juliette has had to suffer are going to come boiling up, and it's going to be either/or time.
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