This thread is because @syscrash put this out in another post. Sometimes we need to look at Trust being a factor in season 6 and the outcome of Grmm. In season 1 Juliette wouldn't get engaged to Nick because she thought he was holding something back he was. Trust was in play there she didn't trust him. Now in mid season 4 we seen trust again in play in Juliette becoming a hexenbiest and not trusting Nick to tell him.
Now in season 4 Nick clear up to the end trusted Juliette some will say to a fault and they are correct. After the spice shop he should have taken some step to keep her from contacting his mom, maybe even when she moved out.
So by the end of season 4 Nick's trust in Juliette was gone. Now in season 5 does Nick trust Eve? Also in season 5 we seen Adalind make an effort to gain Nick's trust we don't know just how much this worked out yet, but she did make the effort.
So now to the @syscrash thread what is trust in the series? So now in season 6 this trust factor may be in the biggest question. Can Nick ever trust Juliette again, will Adalind show true trust in Nick and will Nick trust Adalind? Adding Diana to the question can Nick trust Diana if they are living together at the fome?
Will at some point Nick need to trust Renard and is this possible to do?
Does Monroe, Rosalee, and Trubel needed to be add to this list or are they the only ones he can trust? Note Wu and Hank are not in this should they be?
(12-09-2016, 12:37 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ]Now in season 4 Nick clear up to the end trusted Juliette some will say to a fault and they are correct.
No surprise here, js, but I disagree with this opinion. Nick wouldn't sleep with Juliette once he found out she was a hexenbiest. While he didn't personally throw her in jail, he made sure she stayed there until Kenneth bailed her out. He didn't trust her to make her own decisions and called her out on them (i.e., when she went to Renard and Henrietta for help). In my opinion these were some very clear examples of Nick's mistrust.
I am not sure which post you are referring to. So I am not sure the context when I was using trust. In you statement the facts are true but I do not agree with the assumptions. The show is based on lack of communication between all characters. This by definition leads to lack of trust.
As for Nick's trust of Adalind compared to that of Juliette and Eve. It is hard to judge relations on trust since past actions have no effect. What I do see is. The show defines the characters in two categories. Are they connected as a couple or are they connected as a team. The connections drive their actions instead of their actions driving the connections.
Example Nick and Adalind seem like a couple but not a team. Instead of trying to become a couple the show tries to prove they are a couple. They show also tries to prove Adalind is not a team player. By always having her break from the group she is with. Nick and Juliette seemed like a couple and a team. Not only did Juliette always follow the group the show did not try and prove their relationship. The show assumed we knew they where in a relationship. Nick and Eve seem like a team. Many times they called on each other for help. Always working together. I would not say the connections are built on trust.
(12-09-2016, 04:11 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2016, 12:37 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ]Now in season 4 Nick clear up to the end trusted Juliette some will say to a fault and they are correct.
No surprise here, js, but I disagree with this opinion. Nick wouldn't sleep with Juliette once he found out she was a hexenbiest. While he didn't personally throw her in jail, he made sure she stayed there until Kenneth bailed her out. He didn't trust her to make her own decisions and called her out on them (i.e., when she went to Renard and Henrietta for help). In my opinion these were some very clear examples of Nick's mistrust.
I agree with you that Nick didn't trust Juliette but I don't agree with your reasoning.
I think in this point syscrash has a point. There is a lack of communication in the show between the characters.
Just some examples.
Nick trusted Juliette if we considered that he never assumed that Juliette would be set up a trap to his mother. But Nick didn't trust Juliette decisions as you said about asking counseling to Henrietta. But in Nick's defense Nick and Juliette never had real time to talk about that.
When they found about Juliette becoming hexanbiest, Juliette first hided from nick, them she told but nick went for a walk, them when nick wanted to talk Juliette runner away.... They never tried to understand each other.
Trust is a two way street. I mean... For Nick tô trust Juliette she had to give him the opportunity. For Juliette to trust nick he had to give her the opportunity. This means communications.
(12-09-2016, 04:57 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]But Nick didn't trust Juliette decisions as you said about asking counseling to Henrietta. But in Nick's defense Nick and Juliette never had real time to talk about that.
And I disagree with this. I saw plenty of opportunities for Nick to talk to Juliette. He's supposed to be this understanding character. He's gone out of his way to make sure some of the wesen he's encountered don't have to pay for their crimes. He found the time to communicate that to them and made that understood.
Yet when it comes to Juliette, all of the sudden Nick has no capacity for understanding. He refuses to take the time to talk to her and shows extraordinary cruelty by refusing to sleep with her.
What happened to Juliette happened because of Nick. They both knew there might be side effects to the spell. Juliette trusted him enough to take that chance. Nick did not trust her to accept the consequences. He took the position that she needed to be fixed, rather than talking to her about what they should do.
(12-09-2016, 04:11 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2016, 12:37 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ]Now in season 4 Nick clear up to the end trusted Juliette some will say to a fault and they are correct.
No surprise here, js, but I disagree with this opinion. Nick wouldn't sleep with Juliette once he found out she was a hexenbiest. While he didn't personally throw her in jail, he made sure she stayed there until Kenneth bailed her out. He didn't trust her to make her own decisions and called her out on them (i.e., when she went to Renard and Henrietta for help). In my opinion these were some very clear examples of Nick's mistrust.
Hi Iruk,
As I recall it, Nick remained in the house. He didn't throw her out. She was sleeping in her car. Gee, a DVM with no means to book a hotel room? Nick tried to call her. She never answered but ignored him. Why didn't he have Wu locate her phone before she went on the tirade? Regardless, she left and the were never together as a couple again. So how is it even possible that they "sleep" together?
The problem was not Nick's "mistrust" but that he failed to see what a violent criminal she had become and that he needed to protect everyone who knew her from danger. He failed to even tell his mother that Juliette was hexen. We have agreed if he had warned Kelly then she would not have believed Hexenette's lies and not been killed. You called him a doofus and I still agree. She is guilty of all she did, including planing and flawlessly betraying Kelly to her death. Even if she was a total moron and thought she and Kenny would just take Kelly and Diana out for walk in he park and some ice cream with Rispoli and Verat thugs armed to the teeth, just in case. Her ignorance would not excuse her. She is guilty of Kelly's murder. If Kelly had not trusted Hexenette she would not have been killed.
N G
I agree with the charge of guilty of Juliette.ignorance is no excuse.Juliette knew with whom she allied.their relationship was broken because the trust between them ended
Quote:And I disagree with this. I saw plenty of opportunities for Nick to talk to Juliette. He's supposed to be this understanding character. He's gone out of his way to make sure some of the wesen he's encountered don't have to pay for their crimes. He found the time to communicate that to them and made that understood.
Yet when it comes to Juliette, all of the sudden Nick has no capacity for understanding. He refuses to take the time to talk to her and shows extraordinary cruelty by refusing to sleep with her.
What happened to Juliette happened because of Nick. They both knew there might be side effects to the spell. Juliette trusted him enough to take that chance. Nick did not trust her to accept the consequences. He took the position that she needed to be fixed, rather than talking to her about what they should do.
That is an unfair assumption. Nick was suffering from an immense amount of guilty. It is guilt that drive his irrational position of denial. They only thing that would relieve his conscious of guilt would be to make her not a hexenbiest. Accepting her as a hexenbiest would not relieve his guilt.
Quote:The problem was not Nick's "mistrust" but that he failed to see what a violent criminal she had become and that he needed to protect everyone who knew her for danger.
That statement is completely out of context. Nick knew she was a hexenbiest plus they have broken up long before Juliette did anything to Nick and the gang. Even the conversation in jail was not about her actions in the bar. With Nick and Rosalee it was entirely about them wanting Juliette to no longer be a hexenbiest. Remember Juliette turned Nick down for sex long before Nick sleep on the couch. He just did not know why. Now that he knew why. It was like when he left when she did not remember him. It was more out of chivalry then being scared of her. Even when she was in jail and she said she was not sure she would not kill him, he was not scared. You know he was not scared by how he reacted in the station. After burning the trailer that was when she started to frighten him. But that was long after Nick trying to find her to talk.
(12-09-2016, 06:05 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:And I disagree with this. I saw plenty of opportunities for Nick to talk to Juliette. He's supposed to be this understanding character. He's gone out of his way to make sure some of the wesen he's encountered don't have to pay for their crimes. He found the time to communicate that to them and made that understood.
Yet when it comes to Juliette, all of the sudden Nick has no capacity for understanding. He refuses to take the time to talk to her and shows extraordinary cruelty by refusing to sleep with her.
What happened to Juliette happened because of Nick. They both knew there might be side effects to the spell. Juliette trusted him enough to take that chance. Nick did not trust her to accept the consequences. He took the position that she needed to be fixed, rather than talking to her about what they should do.
That is an unfair assumption. Nick was suffering from an immense amount of guilty. It is guilt that drive his irrational position of denial. They only thing that would relieve his conscious of guilt would be to make her not a hexenbiest. Accepting her as a hexenbiest would not relieve his guilt.
I don't think it's unfair. Nick admitted he was at fault for what happened. As far as suffering from an immense guilt, I never saw that in Nick. I think he took a position of avoidance more than anything else.
(12-09-2016, 09:58 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2016, 06:05 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:And I disagree with this. I saw plenty of opportunities for Nick to talk to Juliette. He's supposed to be this understanding character. He's gone out of his way to make sure some of the wesen he's encountered don't have to pay for their crimes. He found the time to communicate that to them and made that understood.
Yet when it comes to Juliette, all of the sudden Nick has no capacity for understanding. He refuses to take the time to talk to her and shows extraordinary cruelty by refusing to sleep with her.
What happened to Juliette happened because of Nick. They both knew there might be side effects to the spell. Juliette trusted him enough to take that chance. Nick did not trust her to accept the consequences. He took the position that she needed to be fixed, rather than talking to her about what they should do.
That is an unfair assumption. Nick was suffering from an immense amount of guilty. It is guilt that drive his irrational position of denial. They only thing that would relieve his conscious of guilt would be to make her not a hexenbiest. Accepting her as a hexenbiest would not relieve his guilt.
I don't think it's unfair. Nick admitted he was at fault for what happened. As far as suffering from an immense guilt, I never saw that in Nick. I think he took a position of avoidance more than anything else.
At the end of the day, Juliette loovveed the power she got. So much she avoided Nick many times when he tried to talk to her.
I was remembering the other day, Juliette said she was afraid of Nick for he will kill her for being a HexenB. how naive could she be? Did that mean that their 7 years together meant nothing?, no trust, no love for her to think Nic kwill do something that rediculous?
Also, Nick tried very very hard to speak with her, called her so many times, she avoided as much as she could. She first went to Renard, Then Henrietta, then the Spice shop till she saw Nick there. It was so childish of her not to believe that 7 years of her relationship meant something. The next thing we see her do is taunt Nick.
Now he has someone new in his life, agreed some what different aproach.... they just seem to be fitting, their life has gone the same and the world around them is always on a fast pace with the sort of anything can happen. Thats what Juliette and him never had, which I believe gave lots of doabts and uncertainty strain on their relationship. Her HexenB, would be no better.